Childhood Why do people think this is csa

[Teasel]

I don't think it was OK, or that no one cared.

If you imagined masterbating in front of your daughter when she was your age, is it easier to see it as wrong?

 

[Rose White]

well for sure. But was thinking that people didn’t used to care.

It’s possible that people used to be even more upset about it at some point. In the 70s people thought porn was high brow.

it’s just because grandpa brainwashed his family to incest. But that doesn’t excuse my dad. I need to start that thread about if your abusive parent was abused worse than they abused you

 

[Movingforward10]

Maybe 50 years ago it was okay to do that? Or no one really cared?

It was never ok. whether people cared or not back then, I can’t answer because no one intervened for me back then either. But the lack of care or intervention was wrong too.

 

[Rose White]

Okay I do understand that it is WRONG. I don’t even talk or listen about certain things around kids let alone do things. I do still think the 70s were a ficked up time for kids with respect to pedophilia.

And if the mandatory reporter trainer says it’s csa then it is definitely csa. I guess it’s really important for me to understand that my most important captain parts do understand. And the parts that don’t are the ones who are dumb small. And that I will continue to tell all of me that it was wrong and bad whether or not we/they all understand it all of the time.

Because if I don’t think about it as parts then I’m just like wtf is wrong with me ew gross go away now before you hurt someone.

Stupid shame. I do know better. It’s weird that dismissing/discounting is so dangerous and harmful to myself and others. I’m still jumping over a hurdle, not yet integrated, looking out for a breakthrough. Prob helpful to go back and read closely.

 

[Freddyt]

Having the child watch it is basically exposing the child to a sex act which said child is far too young to consent to,

Consent for younger people - children especially is something people don't think about enough.

I don't think age matters when it comes to consent. Exposure too or acts performed on are not that different in that context.

They are not ready to understand all the aspects of sex - physical, social, and emotional. So exposing them to that is wrong in my books. So is exposing them against their will - same thing its not "just a kid" its a person who deserves the same respect any other person, child or adult, deserves.

But for the child - it gets more complicated because they know its associated with the adult world and they put it in the "icky and gross" category - and get to talk to a therapist later in life to sort things out for the poor confused kid.....

 

[Rose White]

its not "just a kid" its a person who deserves the same respect any other person,

This landed in some way. And then the “it’s even more complicated” part too.

they put it in the "icky and gross" category

What’s complicated about this, I am realizing, is that for some csa people it may not be icky and gross when it happens (due to naivety or grooming) but then as an adult the whole category of behavior can be seen as icky and gross (or a means to an end), which then becomes a significant hurdle to intimacy—intimacy itself seen as icky and gross (or dangerous) even though csa is not intimate it mimics it. :(

 

[Rose White]

sexual boundaries, and what it means to be kept safe, don’t apply to you for some reason

This is a key theme because as you know the meaning of my memories were revealed by my conscious crystallization around age 40 and he confessed. So the “for some reason” was like a rabid monkey on my back all through my conscious life from teenage years on.

And it seems that since I went and developed my adult brain without knowing that reason there is a part of my brain network that is confused why we aren’t still living with the old patterns which seemed to work “fine.” The neural grooves and connections we developed for so long and which were useful I guess, in some way.

But here’s the wise captain—reminding me that when Stalin died everything changed—there was no going back even if that’s how things worked for all those years—sometimes in life big changes happen and we stop thinking in the old ways—butterfly and all that.

But back to the quote—these words, “sexual boundaries and what it means to be kept safe” seem out of reach for me. Like a hologram. Maybe not really, because I have come a long way, but my road led me to being alone and most of me is very okay with that. And maybe being alone is the right thing for me. Maybe I will have the best boundaries and be safest without what people call love relationships.

Has this experience not been a key part of the way you now experience

I think yes.

Okay am facing stuff a little now. I actually want to read it again and keep reading the others because I think I missed stuff.

Also, I think fear and panic looks like regression for me and maybe that’s not unusual for some of us.

Feels like I’m looking at it and grasping a little bit of it.

Feeling tired all of a sudden.

 

[Teasel]

It's pretty huge stuff you're working out. Makes sense It's tiring. Pleased for you being able to see some of this. Hope you get some rest too.

 

[Rose White]

Appreciate you @Teasel

 

[Teasel]

Likewise @Rose White

 

[Freddyt]

This landed in some way. And then the “it’s even more complicated” part too.

Oh hell yeah it is in that way more complicated category.......because it falls in several places that complicate it endlessly.
Sense of self - we start gaining a sense of self before puberty. We go from kids who run around the house naked after a bath before getting dressed with doors open to "that's mine" with a towel wrapped around our self and closed doors....
And is that the point where we realized "that's mine and its only for others if I want it to be".

 

[spinningmytires]

I must also ask why my father has been assumed to be my only CSA suspect. Anyway, here are my thoughts in regards to my father's sexual abuse of me.

I have only two vivid childhood memories of CSA that were only recalled at age 24. Beginning with my first frightening memory of seeing my father intentionally display his penis erection to me at age 4 — yet not until age 24, had I become conscious awareness of his sexual abuse.

When I was about age 10, I once innocently asked my father why he was sniffing panties from the dirty cloth hamper. I saw him place panties in his pocket and walk away. This memory I hadn’t buried as I hadn’t then realized this was CSA related. This memory was also recalled only at age 24.

I suspect that, my frightening experience of seeing my father’s erection, at age 4, might have been my very first sighting of his erection. If I’d been routinely exposed to his erections prior to age 4, I doubt that I’d be so extremely frightened by it at age 4. I also doubt that I could have easily and willingly approached his penis again later on with less fear.

Even my T seemed aware of my genital phobia during my early 20’s. At the time, I wanted nothing to do with genitals and sexual feelings below the waist. For me, it was as though, that area of my body, including any sexual feelings belonged to my father alone and that those sexual feelings were his business and not mine. Whatever the case, I wanted nothing to do with it. It’s not as if, my father genuinely loved me either - he didn’t.

He was very rejecting of me and yet, he would stare at my body when he masturbated - this behavior made no sense to me. I didn’t want to take part in this unwilling role as his fantasy sexual partner, if that’s what that was. I wished he hadn’t stared at me while masturbating. When he did stare at me, I wanting to scream and yet, I couldn’t scream because I could only freeze. I wanted no part of it!

So how old might I have been when I first began to freeze during my father’s CSA masturbation - age 2, age 3? My guess would be age 4, if during my suspected onset of penis phobia.

My sexual abuse might have never been physical - I suspect that it wasn’t physical which makes it appear even less believable. I have no memory of my father ever crawling into bed with me - note, my younger sister and I slept in the same bed until I was age 12 - nor did my father ever forcefully touch me, nor threaten me in any way. My father was also very careful at hiding his CSA from others. I was never physically harmed by it nor even bruised. This being say, my emotional injuries remain evident.

If this type of sexual abuse had occurred prior to age 4, I doubt that this would have emotionally harmed me because I likely hadn’t the mental development to comprehend it as being wrongful or shameful, prior to age 4.

During my early childhood, I might have occasionally seen my brother’s genitals as he was 3 years my senior. Yet at age 4, my father’s full erection appeared to be moving, independently, as if on its own and yet, it had no eyes - this was extremely frightening to me! At age 4, I hadn’t even yet grasped the understanding that his erection was part of his own body.

Early on I wasn’t judgmental - I likely thought my parents could do no wrong. If anyone were wrongful or ‘bad’ then that must have been me.

I have very little memory of my childhood prior to age 3 and one-half. I don’t know when I first began to bury my father’s CSA from my conscious mind. I suspect this began when I began to realize my need for a meaningful connection with my father. So at age 4, I likely buried my fear of my father’s erection along with all of my emotions so, that I could be ‘accepted’ by him - not as truly loved but rather ‘accepted.’

My total lack of CSA awareness from age 4 to age 24, hadn’t saved me from experiencing symptoms of sexual abuse either - there was my hyper-vigilance among other symptoms.

It’s not as if, my abusers were politely knocking at my bedroom door, asking if they could enter my safe space or my physical environment. They would simply show up unexpectedly. From my abuser’s perspective I had no privacy. Often, my only means of blocking them out was by dissociation.