Childhood Why do people think this is csa

[Rose White]

If this type of sexual abuse had occurred prior to age 4, I doubt that this would have emotionally harmed me because I likely hadn’t the mental development to comprehend it as being wrongful or shameful, prior to age 4.

One would think! But it seems that even if the mental development isn’t there yet the mind-body files it away as “that was weird” until it can sort it out?

I also had severe phobia of adult penises. Felt nauseous and panicky when I would see pictures or one in real life—and a taste of soap in my mouth.

 

[spinningmytires]

One would think! But it seems that even if the mental development isn’t there yet the mind-body files it away as “that was weird” until it can sort it out?

I also had severe phobia of adult penises. Felt nauseous and panicky when I would see pictures or one in real life—and a taste of soap in my mouth.

This damaging CSA mind-body experience during infancy maybe true, yet, I had likely acquired far more disturbing, if confusing mind-body experiences, beyond any CSA fondling during infancy.

For example, I had repeatedly experienced blockages in my airways during my whooping cough illness - this sudden blockage of my airways had occurred over a number of weeks. Though I hadn’t likely grasped the concept of dying at 6 weeks of age, this might have left me with a lasting negative impression that my new world outside my mother’s womb wasn’t a safe place.

Also, because I wasn’t crying as an infant, my discomforts might have gone unnoticed by my mother. If I had then been in pain I had to deal with it alone. I also suspect that my brother might have been punching me if, pulling and twisting my limbs during my infancy while I was yet unable to cry out for help. I know that my brother was intentionally assaulting me when I was age 3 and one-half. I suspect that he was doing this when I was even younger.

I would suspect that my negative mind-body experiences during infancy were all mingled together. As a toddler, I likely wasn’t sorting out one experience from another as being either sexual and non sexual. To me these negatives were likely all experienced as disturbing stressors.

My penis phobia seemed more directly related to my fear of sexual intimacy and not to the physical presence of the penis itself. I have no memory of having any bad experience related to penis contact. However, my very frightening experience of seeing my father’s erect penis, at age 4, had provided me with the real-life visible evidence of my ‘bad father’s existence.’ This ‘bad father’ he had often tried to hide from me. Or at least he had until I began to block his penis from my conscious awareness.

So my greatest fears have always been related to those things which I could not see, such as, my ‘bad father’s hidden desires.’ My awareness of my father’s hidden desires always made me feel extremely unsafe and vulnerable. So much so that I would automatically freeze or dissociate.

I could never completely trust my father. Though he would always stop masturbating and simply walk away from me, I had no proof that this would always happen. How could sexual intimacy with anyone ever be a good thing without trust.

My father was never ’touchy feely’ with anyone, including his wife and the family dog. Most people take pleasure in physically petting their dogs, yet, my father apparently felt nothing pleasurable in doing it. Just as some people apparently feel nothing when listening to music, I think, my father felt nothing when giving affectionate touches to others. He very rarely touched me and only when it was absolutely necessary. A few times during my adulthood, I had given my father a hug, while my father only then looked away with no response.

When I look back on my father’s persistent avoidance of physical contact over the years, I find it very difficult to believe that, he was once very ’touchy feely’ with me. He had always minimized his interactions with others. When he did speak to me, he spoke only a few words. He avoided eye contact. He couldn’t relate to my emotions. He didn’t play games nor ever rough-house with his kids. As children we would sometimes follow behind him when we were out. But generally, we were expected not to bother him and to stay out of his way.

As far back as I can recall, I had no physical contact with a penis until I was age 24 - and then, that was always consensual.
Beginning at age 12, all of my horses were geldings with occasional erections which never unset me in the least. A few times in life drawing class, I had drawn totally nude male models and that hadn’t disturbed me either - well, just as long as they weren’t watching me draw them. I’d always felt a bit uncomfortable with eye to eye contact with a nude model. I guess it’s good to be sensitive. But then none of the male models had erections. If this were left up to me, I would have preferred that they wear a small bit of fabric.

 

[Rose White]

My awareness of my father’s hidden desires always made me feel extremely unsafe and vulnerable

This resonates with me in a way that I feel unable to articulate.

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

 

[Hopemeanslife]

CSA means any contact or non touching is classed as csa because it’s illegal and it’s a crime and the adult knows what he’s doing by subjecting a child to that, they may not know what is going on but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t affect the child, that is desensitising a child.

At what point do you think it’s okay for a dad to do that?

You do know if that stood up in court your dad would go to prison and children services would be involved because that child is no longer safe.

There’s a law in place for an appropriate age to have sex and it’s 16 in England for a reason because up until that age they are children and children cannot partake or witnesss illegal acts like you are describing with your dad. One it’s your dad and that’s illegal and two you’re a toddler which is also illegal and three it’s sexually exploiting a child which again is illegal.

Csa is also if an adult would make a child watch pornography and well by showing your child you’re wanking as an adult is csa.

With no exception. If you think csa is only if someone is directly touching you or harming you then you can visit the rape crisis website and it will explain to you what csa is.

 

[Friday]

Want the cultural anthropology answer?

There are a LOT of cultures -presently- where not only parents, but other members of the community, are having sex in front of / around children. In EACH of those cultures there are right & wrong ways to do that. Just like here (USA) there are right & wrong ways to snuggle/snog in front of / around children.

NEITHER is an arbitrary set of rules.

It’s like cultures who use variations of “time out” are not locking children in a cold/dank basement for a week. Or in a trunk. Or just abandoning them. <<< Those are just a FEW of the “wrong” ways.

It’s NEVER that people just don’t care about XYZ, when their (cultural) normal is sooooooo different from another’s culture’s. People are people. They care, and deeply, especially about their children. So there are rules. To protect their children. And abusive & neglectful people/parents BREAK those rules. No matter the culture. No matter the norm. No matter the subject. There is ALWAYS a minority of people who are cruel/abusive, & uncaring/neglectful.

 

[spinningmytires]

CSA means any contact or non touching is classed as csa because it’s illegal and it’s a crime and the adult knows what he’s doing by subjecting a child to that, they may not know what is going on but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t affect the child, that is desensitising a child.

At what point do you think it’s okay for a dad to do that?

You do know if that stood up in court your dad would go to prison and children services would be involved because that child is no longer safe.

There’s a law in place for an appropriate age to have sex and it’s 16 in England for a reason because up until that age they are children and children cannot partake or witnesss illegal acts like you are describing with your dad. One it’s your dad and that’s illegal and two you’re a toddler which is also illegal and three it’s sexually exploiting a child which again is illegal.

Csa is also if an adult would make a child watch pornography and well by showing your child you’re wanking as an adult is csa.

With no exception. If you think csa is only if someone is directly touching you or harming you then you can visit the rape crisis website and it will explain to you what csa is.

My non-contact CSA by my father was never acceptable, not at age 4 nor during my later adulthood nor at any age. I never complied - I just hadn’t the means to leave my father’s house.

At age 24, I actually thought my sexual desensitization and lack of sexual feeling was my greatest inner-strength in combating my father’s sexual abuse. I call recall my fear of letting go of this misguided ‘inner- strength’ during my first few years of CBT. Learning to trust my T was difficult, yet, even that hasn’t been enough. I still suffer from dissociation.

I couldn’t understand what role I was playing during my father’s sexual self-gratification - and what did that have to do with me. To him I was like an inanimate frozen object, as if, the center-fold in a girly magazine. I doubt that he had any awareness that I had feelings of any kind or that I would be harmed by his actions. Perhaps my freeze, as my ‘extreme disconnect’ at that moment had provided him with a feeling of safety, where he might then feel safe enough to pleasure himself.

I suspect that both my parents thought I’d be unaffected by it. My father wasn’t emotionally nor physically intimate with anyone, not with his wife nor our family dog. I doubt that my father was aware of any of my feelings. He didn’t seem to want any particular type of emotional reaction from me.

My mother was aware of my father’s CSA when I was 4 years old and yet, she hadn’t helped me to cope with it. And because my father wasn’t physically touching nor forcing himself on me - though emotionally he was forcing me to watch him fondle himself — I had mistakenly assumed his behavior was a fairly normal male eccentricity and that it was my responsibility to learn to cope with it - as if of little concern. Because my CSA always occurred in privacy I also had no proof. Even I was in total denial of it until my fourth year in CBT.

I’ve since become aware of just how much my past no-contact CSA has negatively impacted my life. Of course, this was wrong and hurtful. At some level my parents also knew this was wrong and tried to hide it, even from me. My mother likely disallowed me any therapy before I turned 18 because my father might have gone to prison.