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Childhood Why do people think this is csa

If this type of sexual abuse had occurred prior to age 4, I doubt that this would have emotionally harmed me because I likely hadn’t the mental development to comprehend it as being wrongful or shameful, prior to age 4.
One would think! But it seems that even if the mental development isn’t there yet the mind-body files it away as “that was weird” until it can sort it out?

I also had severe phobia of adult penises. Felt nauseous and panicky when I would see pictures or one in real life—and a taste of soap in my mouth.
 

One would think! But it seems that even if the mental development isn’t there yet the mind-body files it away as “that was weird” until it can sort it out?

I also had severe phobia of adult penises. Felt nauseous and panicky when I would see pictures or one in real life—and a taste of soap in my mouth.
This damaging CSA mind-body experience during infancy maybe true, yet, I had likely acquired far more disturbing, if confusing mind-body experiences, beyond any CSA fondling during infancy.

For example, I had repeatedly experienced blockages in my airways during my whooping cough illness - this sudden blockage of my airways had occurred over a number of weeks. Though I hadn’t likely grasped the concept of dying at 6 weeks of age, this might have left me with a lasting negative impression that my new world outside my mother’s womb wasn’t a safe place.

Also, because I wasn’t crying as an infant, my discomforts might have gone unnoticed by my mother. If I had then been in pain I had to deal with it alone. I also suspect that my brother might have been punching me if, pulling and twisting my limbs during my infancy while I was yet unable to cry out for help. I know that my brother was intentionally assaulting me when I was age 3 and one-half. I suspect that he was doing this when I was even younger.

I would suspect that my negative mind-body experiences during infancy were all mingled together. As a toddler, I likely wasn’t sorting out one experience from another as being either sexual and non sexual. To me these negatives were likely all experienced as disturbing stressors.

My penis phobia seemed more directly related to my fear of sexual intimacy and not to the physical presence of the penis itself. I have no memory of having any bad experience related to penis contact. However, my very frightening experience of seeing my father’s erect penis, at age 4, had provided me with the real-life visible evidence of my ‘bad father’s existence.’ This ‘bad father’ he had often tried to hide from me. Or at least he had until I began to block his penis from my conscious awareness.

So my greatest fears have always been related to those things which I could not see, such as, my ‘bad father’s hidden desires.’ My awareness of my father’s hidden desires always made me feel extremely unsafe and vulnerable. So much so that I would automatically freeze or dissociate.

I could never completely trust my father. Though he would always stop masturbating and simply walk away from me, I had no proof that this would always happen. How could sexual intimacy with anyone ever be a good thing without trust.

My father was never ’touchy feely’ with anyone, including his wife and the family dog. Most people take pleasure in physically petting their dogs, yet, my father apparently felt nothing pleasurable in doing it. Just as some people apparently feel nothing when listening to music, I think, my father felt nothing when giving affectionate touches to others. He very rarely touched me and only when it was absolutely necessary. A few times during my adulthood, I had given my father a hug, while my father only then looked away with no response.

When I look back on my father’s persistent avoidance of physical contact over the years, I find it very difficult to believe that, he was once very ’touchy feely’ with me. He had always minimized his interactions with others. When he did speak to me, he spoke only a few words. He avoided eye contact. He couldn’t relate to my emotions. He didn’t play games nor ever rough-house with his kids. As children we would sometimes follow behind him when we were out. But generally, we were expected not to bother him and to stay out of his way.

As far back as I can recall, I had no physical contact with a penis until I was age 24 - and then, that was always consensual.
Beginning at age 12, all of my horses were geldings with occasional erections which never unset me in the least. A few times in life drawing class, I had drawn totally nude male models and that hadn’t disturbed me either - well, just as long as they weren’t watching me draw them. I’d always felt a bit uncomfortable with eye to eye contact with a nude model. I guess it’s good to be sensitive. But then none of the male models had erections. If this were left up to me, I would have preferred that they wear a small bit of fabric.
 
CSA means any contact or non touching is classed as csa because it’s illegal and it’s a crime and the adult knows what he’s doing by subjecting a child to that, they may not know what is going on but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t affect the child, that is desensitising a child.

At what point do you think it’s okay for a dad to do that?

You do know if that stood up in court your dad would go to prison and children services would be involved because that child is no longer safe.

There’s a law in place for an appropriate age to have sex and it’s 16 in England for a reason because up until that age they are children and children cannot partake or witnesss illegal acts like you are describing with your dad. One it’s your dad and that’s illegal and two you’re a toddler which is also illegal and three it’s sexually exploiting a child which again is illegal.

Csa is also if an adult would make a child watch pornography and well by showing your child you’re wanking as an adult is csa.

With no exception. If you think csa is only if someone is directly touching you or harming you then you can visit the rape crisis website and it will explain to you what csa is.
 
Want the cultural anthropology answer?

There are a LOT of cultures -presently- where not only parents, but other members of the community, are having sex in front of / around children. In EACH of those cultures there are right & wrong ways to do that. Just like here (USA) there are right & wrong ways to snuggle/snog in front of / around children.

NEITHER is an arbitrary set of rules.

It’s like cultures who use variations of “time out” are not locking children in a cold/dank basement for a week. Or in a trunk. Or just abandoning them. <<< Those are just a FEW of the “wrong” ways.

It’s NEVER that people just don’t care about XYZ, when their (cultural) normal is sooooooo different from another’s culture’s. People are people. They care, and deeply, especially about their children. So there are rules. To protect their children. And abusive & neglectful people/parents BREAK those rules. No matter the culture. No matter the norm. No matter the subject. There is ALWAYS a minority of people who are cruel/abusive, & uncaring/neglectful.
 
CSA means any contact or non touching is classed as csa because it’s illegal and it’s a crime and the adult knows what he’s doing by subjecting a child to that, they may not know what is going on but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t affect the child, that is desensitising a child.

At what point do you think it’s okay for a dad to do that?

You do know if that stood up in court your dad would go to prison and children services would be involved because that child is no longer safe.

There’s a law in place for an appropriate age to have sex and it’s 16 in England for a reason because up until that age they are children and children cannot partake or witnesss illegal acts like you are describing with your dad. One it’s your dad and that’s illegal and two you’re a toddler which is also illegal and three it’s sexually exploiting a child which again is illegal.

Csa is also if an adult would make a child watch pornography and well by showing your child you’re wanking as an adult is csa.

With no exception. If you think csa is only if someone is directly touching you or harming you then you can visit the rape crisis website and it will explain to you what csa is.
My non-contact CSA by my father was never acceptable, not at age 4 nor during my later adulthood nor at any age. I never complied - I just hadn’t the means to leave my father’s house.

At age 24, I actually thought my sexual desensitization and lack of sexual feeling was my greatest inner-strength in combating my father’s sexual abuse. I call recall my fear of letting go of this misguided ‘inner- strength’ during my first few years of CBT. Learning to trust my T was difficult, yet, even that hasn’t been enough. I still suffer from dissociation.

I couldn’t understand what role I was playing during my father’s sexual self-gratification - and what did that have to do with me. To him I was like an inanimate frozen object, as if, the center-fold in a girly magazine. I doubt that he had any awareness that I had feelings of any kind or that I would be harmed by his actions. Perhaps my freeze, as my ‘extreme disconnect’ at that moment had provided him with a feeling of safety, where he might then feel safe enough to pleasure himself.

I suspect that both my parents thought I’d be unaffected by it. My father wasn’t emotionally nor physically intimate with anyone, not with his wife nor our family dog. I doubt that my father was aware of any of my feelings. He didn’t seem to want any particular type of emotional reaction from me.

My mother was aware of my father’s CSA when I was 4 years old and yet, she hadn’t helped me to cope with it. And because my father wasn’t physically touching nor forcing himself on me - though emotionally he was forcing me to watch him fondle himself — I had mistakenly assumed his behavior was a fairly normal male eccentricity and that it was my responsibility to learn to cope with it - as if of little concern. Because my CSA always occurred in privacy I also had no proof. Even I was in total denial of it until my fourth year in CBT.

I’ve since become aware of just how much my past no-contact CSA has negatively impacted my life. Of course, this was wrong and hurtful. At some level my parents also knew this was wrong and tried to hide it, even from me. My mother likely disallowed me any therapy before I turned 18 because my father might have gone to prison.
 
I couldn’t understand what role I was playing during my father’s sexual self-gratification - and what did that have to do with me. To him I was like an inanimate frozen object, as if, the center-fold in a girly magazine. I doubt that he had any awareness that I had feelings of any kind or that I would be harmed by his actions.
Grappling with this right now.

I know there are no trigger warnings but, readers, please please be mindful about this post.

I just had session and I remembered that my dad had kept a letter in his file cabinet that his dad had sent to him detailing a sex act that grandpa was having with his lover where her little toddler son watched and all three of them sort of reveled in my grandpa’s ejaculation onto the floor. (Very sorry for the image). And all this time I thought my dad kept that letter because “people keep letters from their dads.”

And today—f*cking today—I realized that my dad kept that letter because it turned him on. I found it when I was around maybe 8, because I was snooping through his file cabinet. And I “somehow” knew exactly what it meant? I remember it was a very detailed letter and so maybe that’s how I learned about ejaculation?

My point is that my dad and my grandpa were pedophiles and they enjoyed having children watching them come. I’m sorry again. And it’s just so very very unfortunate.

My grandpa studied under Skinner and Kinsey in a doctorate program (didn’t finish). He used electrodes in his house to “train” his children not to touch certain things. He did experimental surgery on the family cat and it died. (He experimented on lots of animals in his psychology program.). He saw humans as sexual beings who needed to be liberated from repression. For him sex was a kind of animalistic act.

Idk if he was brainwashed in college or had sadistic tendencies which were validated by his time at university working with Skinner and Kinsey.

My dad was broken by my grandpa. But he was still an adult who made his own decisions. He could have turned away.

Today in session I identified with my dad again. I said my dad was abused by his grandpa. It’s *my* grandpa who abused my dad. I hate that I identify with him. I hate that I’m STILL dealing with this csa. lol. I thought I was all better. Ugh. It’s a problem again. Goddammit. I’m looking at it again. From the front row again. But I have to remember that I’ve done a lot of work already. And this time, even though it feels fresh, it’s not. But godammit I’m seeing shit that I didn’t see before.

Realizing that my dad kept that letter! If ANYONE I know in real life or on here got a letter from their dad that relayed an experience like that, they would likely trash it and excommunicate their dad. Or tell their dad to get help. Idk.

Why did I have to have a pedo dad? It’s just my fate. That’s all. Now, what can I do about it? Get help, that’s what I’m doing. Idk why I wanted to post here. I thought maybe I was still grappling with the idea that it’s wrong, but I’m not. I’m grappling with the fallout.
 
Grappling with this right now.

I know there are no trigger warnings but, readers, please please be mindful about this post.

I just had session and I remembered that my dad had kept a letter in his file cabinet that his dad had sent to him detailing a sex act that grandpa was having with his lover where her little toddler son watched and all three of them sort of reveled in my grandpa’s ejaculation onto the floor. (Very sorry for the image). And all this time I thought my dad kept that letter because “people keep letters from their dads.”

And today—f*cking today—I realized that my dad kept that letter because it turned him on. I found it when I was around maybe 8, because I was snooping through his file cabinet. And I “somehow” knew exactly what it meant? I remember it was a very detailed letter and so maybe that’s how I learned about ejaculation?

My point is that my dad and my grandpa were pedophiles and they enjoyed having children watching them come. I’m sorry again. And it’s just so very very unfortunate.

My grandpa studied under Skinner and Kinsey in a doctorate program (didn’t finish). He used electrodes in his house to “train” his children not to touch certain things. He did experimental surgery on the family cat and it died. (He experimented on lots of animals in his psychology program.). He saw humans as sexual beings who needed to be liberated from repression. For him sex was a kind of animalistic act.

Idk if he was brainwashed in college or had sadistic tendencies which were validated by his time at university working with Skinner and Kinsey.

My dad was broken by my grandpa. But he was still an adult who made his own decisions. He could have turned away.

Today in session I identified with my dad again. I said my dad was abused by his grandpa. It’s *my* grandpa who abused my dad. I hate that I identify with him. I hate that I’m STILL dealing with this csa. lol. I thought I was all better. Ugh. It’s a problem again. Goddammit. I’m looking at it again. From the front row again. But I have to remember that I’ve done a lot of work already. And this time, even though it feels fresh, it’s not. But godammit I’m seeing shit that I didn’t see before.

Realizing that my dad kept that letter! If ANYONE I know in real life or on here got a letter from their dad that relayed an experience like that, they would likely trash it and excommunicate their dad. Or tell their dad to get help. Idk.

Why did I have to have a pedo dad? It’s just my fate. That’s all. Now, what can I do about it? Get help, that’s what I’m doing. Idk why I wanted to post here. I thought maybe I was still grappling with the idea that it’s wrong, but I’m not. I’m grappling with the fallout.
Very disgusting and wrong. Idk how people can think this kind of behavior is okay.

I do want to mention it's normal to identify with your dad. But you aren't your dad, you're breaking the cycle. It's a heck of a thing to grapple with.

I'm doing EMDR and it really works.
 
Thanks @Roland I’m glad the EMDR is helping you. Trauma-focused psychodynamic therapy helped me stabilize and be able to attach to my kids and make friends. That took about five years. Then I took a two year break from therapy. Sex therapy for about six months helped me start a relationship earlier this year. The relationship brought everything back up. Psychoanalysis is helping me rewire again, feels like going over the trauma stuff with a finer comb to find things I missed. Like this today. 😵‍💫
 
Thanks @Roland I’m glad the EMDR is helping you. Trauma-focused psychodynamic therapy helped me stabilize and be able to attach to my kids and make friends. That took about five years. Then I took a two year break from therapy. Sex therapy for about six months helped me start a relationship earlier this year. The relationship brought everything back up. Psychoanalysis is helping me rewire again, feels like going over the trauma stuff with a finer comb to find things I missed. Like this today. 😵‍💫
It's such a journey man
 
I suspect, my father’s non touch CSA toward me, might have been due to his 'suspected' schizoid personality disorder. He always avoiding physical touch and emotional closeness with everyone. Not even in my parents formal wedding photo was they touching each other nor providing eye contact. Their eyes weren’t even directed towards the camera. Their bodies were clearly facing different directions.

My father apparently had very little if any desire for physical touch — no cuddling nor hugging, not even with his wife nor the family dog.

My first T described my father as aloof. My father’s emotional expressions and interests were very limited. He rarely spoke yet when he did speak to me there was little eye contact, if any. Only when he was angry would he provide direct eye contact. He never asked me about my day nor my feelings. I would sometimes notice his sudden rapid breathing, the stiffening of his arms, his flushed face and tight-lipped agitation yet, rarely would he say anything about his feelings. My mother would often say to me, ‘don’t upset your father.’ All I could do was try to make myself invisible to him.

If I asked him a question, he would abruptly put an end to the conversation saying, ‘because I say so’ or ‘ I’m not going to say it again.’ When I was in pain, he’d say, ‘ignore it’ or ’stop your fussing.’ When I was in conflict with someone, he would say, ‘just try to get along.’

Never did I hear him say that he loved anyone nor that he was proud of them. Praise and criticism meant absolutely nothing to him. At times, he might have felt embarrassed yet he seemed so socially detached that this hadn’t fazed him.

My father’s sexual interests appeared to be mainly on my physical body, his pornography magazines and stripe shows. I’ve never understood my mother’s sexual behavior either. They showed no sexual interest in each other. They always slept in separate bedrooms. He never pursued other women.

Strange as this is, I suspect my father felt content within his emotionally detached life-style. I also doubt that he realized I was being emotionally injured due to his CSA. I would simply freeze. I wasn’t being touched. I didn’t even realize this was abuse. My mother knew of my CSA yet was okay with it and so, I thought my relationship with my father was fairly normal, until my mid 20's.

Perhaps my greatest emotional injury was in knowing that neither of my parents were emotionally available to me. They either lacked the depth to realize this or they knew yet didn’t care.

My T once told me that my father hadn’t the ability to willfully stop his CSA while this responsibility was on my mother. One day in therapy, my T lost his cool with me and suddenly blurted out in anger saying, “don’t you dare defend your mother after what she has done to you. She could have helped you yet she didn’t.”

I recall once asking my father why he married my mother. He responded saying,’”because that was what I was supposed to do.” He said nothing about loving her. Then when I asked my mother why she married my dad, she responded saying, because he dressed well, had a nice car, a job and liked to party. Oh my lord, this was my mother’s maturity at age 26 when they chose to marry!

My father’s persistent emotional detachment was something I could never understand. If he had merely wanted to masturbate and pleasure himself, that, I could understand. But then, I couldn’t understand why he was performing this activity in front of me while gazing over my shoulder. This was so creepy and weird! I hated it! I’d try to simply ignore it but never could. I was always stressed out by it and would automatically freeze and wait for him to walk away. Then I would immediately forget that it even happened.

I can only recall seeing my father's naked erection, one time. I was then 4 years old and had immediately run away in fear. Because he did nothing to protect me from it at that time, I felt emotionally abandoned by him. It was as if he didn’t care that I felt threatened and in danger. Though I wasn’t likely in any real danger I thought I was in danger at age 4. Thus I could no longer feel emotionally safe with him.
 

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