Would you still be enlisted?

[Jimmy1]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions mate, you included.

This is my opinion.
Think about all the guys in the 101st Airborne during the Battle of the Bulge. They parachuted in to Germany, ended up in freezing conditions in the Ardens Forest. They lost countless mates for just a little bit of territory. They did not question orders. They just did it for their country.
Yes, they hated some of their commanders, just watch Band of Brothers, but they still liked serving their country and never actually blamed their country.
Think about the young men and women who today go to Afghanistan. No matter how blown up and screwed up people are coming home from over there, they are still keen to go.

In the end mate, you signed a dotted line, you agreed to go on board. I can't imagine the horror you went through, and I was not there, but you did the job you were trained for.
Its not your whole god damned country who caused the disaster, yes there may have been someone to blame, but don't keep the hatred inside, it will chew you up and spit you out. The country will still be there and you will be in the loony bin.
Just my opinion.

Jimmy

 

[BV101]

Wagon, I think I was in the same boat as you in a way (no pun intended, even though that was like a f*cking awesome metaphor, what with yours being nautical). Haha! Same boat... haha!
Where was I? Oh yes, I am back with it now. In my lot, there were some absolute prize 1 top drawer c*nts. At the really high level. To the point where they were selling ammo and food to other units (including the enemy once or twice). It got so bad 2 brigades started fighting each other for access to a road that the UN (Useless Nobodies) brought aid convoys (aka gift trucks) down. No I'm not proud of that. Or those people.
So I micro-manage things. I have got to a level where I am okay (noy happy, but okay) with how things fitted together. My mental doctor discussed acceptance of events that were out of my control and the after effects of these. Chopped the events up or looked at other events (I'm not sure this is making sense) that I was okay with. For example unit A commander got us doing dumb stuff and was a one eye. The men and women in unit A were great and I remember that they were, so thats a positive.
Of course you can just sack this as an idea, but it builds like positive sandbags around a bad memory.

same boat... ha! You can't write this material.

 

[Wagon]

Obi Won Jimmy and Harpo Alan,

Thanks for your comments. They help.

I've been mulling this over for a good day or so now. Seems like I've run into a major issue. So much for "detached mindfulness".

So I can concede that it is my own damn fault for signing on that dotted line. I was eager, young and dumb. Only cure for that is experience. And i guess I'd be eager, old and dumb without it. I achieved my goals in the end, got my degree and the Navy paid for part of that.

And I did have good mates that I will never forget. And in many ways my mates and I and a whole separate group of other people on the ship exacted some revenge on those we held responsible. The Captain being a primary target. Almost a competition to get him sacked. Lesson one. Don't sail on a ship you have bad mouthed publicly. His Marine Orderly certainly kept closer tabs on him after that.

I like the positive sand bags metaphor. I got to find a few more of those bags to build this up a bit.

One funny thing comes to mind. As a ship built in 1943 we had some major engineering issues. Fuel in the water, sewage in the fuel, all manner of mix ups down there. All goods guys, but they were fighting a beast on a daily basis. Sewage was a particular problem and I guess you could say with respects to sewage we just couldn't get our shit together (hahaha. I can do this too Alan. we should write for the BBC) So our only solution was to pump it over the side untreated. The old Battle wagon could not go anywhere without taking a crap on it. And she paid dearly for that. I had a mate who as soon as we hit port, would get on the telephone to the local authorities and report that we were polluting the harbour. So millions of dollars in fines and one year later, the old bucket gets fast tracked for decommissioning. And that Captain walked off the ship straight into retirement, finally. It's the polite way of being sacked in the Navy.

Pride is still a long shot though, can't seem to wrap my brain around that one. One whole year of shear hell and allot of lives destroyed. Add a government and Navy cover up, then reinvestigation and more bullshit, dragging families of the dead through all the shit again. Not sure I find much pride in that or my actions on the ship for that matter. That's going to take some work.

Wagon

 

[Jimmy1]

Nope, there is no pride in that at all mate.

When you were talking about the ship, I laugh. Most of Australia's ships were refurbed from the USA.
Same with the C130 H models, and even funnier, was Australia's Chinook Helicopter. We sold them to the US for the Black Hawk, then 10 years later realised that they could not lift and bought them back. lmao.

Mate, most defence don't pay top dollar. One of my soldiers was walking through a PX in Baghdad when one of his grenades fell off his vest. Lucky it was in a pouch, but the poor workmanship could have cost lives. So I know where your coming from.

Cheers

 

[Wagon]

Thanks for that. Funny thing is my first ship was a bigger rust barge than the first. Built in 1939. Put together with rivets. Had to hunt down geezers to work on her in the ship yard as everyone else just knew how to weld.

She meant so much to the Navy that she was a part of the Bikini Island Atoll tests. Target Fleet. Had to sit and cool off for a few years and then right back to service. We had to get special permission to go to sea and than had to alert the Coast Guard to stand bye for us in case of well.....sinking. Also not allowed more than 250 miles away from land.

We started on fire each and every time we went out. That was fun.

Old Ronald Reagans 700 ship Navy was rotten at the core. Allot of reactivated WWII junk. And the rest of the junk we sold to allies. The whole Turkish and Pakistani Navy were old US Destroyers.

My father actually sailed on a newer ship in Vietnam than I did. USS Canberra named after the one the Aussies lost to the Japanese. Heavy Cruiser. She's razor blades by now. Wish the Battle Wagon was, but now she's a museum in San Fran. Oh Joy.

A reflection that I'm starting to sound like some old codger who sailed on Noah's first ship when he was a Seaman Recruit. Probably should move this to Military life or the Bar.

Wagon out.

 

[Wagon]

Ok, Yeah, Duh. We are in Military Life...... To the bar then for war stories and whiskey. I need to get out more.

Wagon.

 

[Fargo1]

Wagon,

Man you brought to life my experience on an old rusty bucket. I was stationed on the USCGC Sweetbriar built in 1944, saw action in Okinawa and the Korean War, then sent to Cordova, AK from 1990-1992. She was old, ridden hard and put away wet. Her CO at the time was a complete bastard. In fact he was the reason I decided to get out and go back to college. I just couldn't stand the thought of having even a slight chance that I would have to serve under another officer like him. For several years that tainted my thoughts on my service. However, now with a bit of hindsight and further service (asked to return after 9/11) I found that my pride of service came back. The fine men and women I served with in Miami from 1988-1990 and again on the MSST here in Alameda from 2001 on. Officers, enlisted it didn't matter, they were all fine people and it was my honor to serve with them. So maybe a way to wrap your head around and let go of a little of your pain is, to quote Ice-T, "Don't hate the playa, hate the game."

Just my two cents. Now how about that whiskey and a couple of sea stories.

 

[Razorback]

Part of the reason I haven't attempted to get help is that I want to be back in. I'm afraid getting a diagnosis may prevent me being able to go in and finish up my 20. I have 9 years in now. I worked to get transferred into the IRR so that I was completely out and hoped it would make it easier to go back to an active drilling status. Before the war, I loved everything about what I did. It was a major part of who I was. It wasn't until about a year after we got back that I just couldn't do it anymore. I had to pack all my military gear, decs, awards and such and stow them away. Too bad every month I had to pull out that uniform and show up to drill.

Of course, it just seemed like things got stupider and stupider. Stupider is a word, right? Anyways, all the officer in my unit seemed to be loosing brain cells at an exponential rate. Thankfully, if I do get to go back in I will be going to a reserve unit and not deal with the bullshit of a state guard. Of course, I'm going to try for an officer slot. Then again, who wants to be stuck in the office doing all the damn paperwork? Give me some equipment to work on!:D

 

[Wagon]

Hey Fargo,

Thanks for that. I've started another thread to recount some of the positives. It's under the "At the Bar" forum called "Positive Vibes"

Yup, hate the playa. There were some real Bastards in the Navy. Made life more hellish than it should have been. I never had to go to NJP aka Captains Mast. But one of my Captains dug out the rule book and found out he could still give out 3 days bread and water in the brig AND 60 days restriction to the ship. This was beyond the norm. 45 days was the norm and nobody did the bread and water thing. But we did. I cringe at the sorry sailors that had to endure that.

The floggings will continue until moral improves.

Wagon

 

[Brian Jones]

Oh, Ill have to say no. I loved humping the woods with my brothers but I hated the politics involved in the service. Watching the officers trying to screw the other out of the next promotion and never seeing the lower enlisted that paid for the officers playing their trump cards.

I do think I learned a lot and was forced to grow up very quickly while I was in and for that I will always be thankful for. But for some of the other lessons I learned I know I will never be the same and I hate that.

 

[reddevil1111]

Wow. This one drags up a lot of feelings for me as well.
I remember the b.s. and the little crap that could trip you up on base. I once got my butt chewed out for going into a mess hall in a dirty set of cammies and for stinking like hell from a Marine Corps Major. He was yelling and ranting and raving like a lunitic and his spit hit me in the face.
I lost it and knocked him out cold. Then I tried to go get some food. I had spent 54 days deployed into Columbia and I had just come back to Camp Lejune in North Carolina.We had just cleaned up our weapons and were told to go grab some chow. I went to chow I guess most of the others went to shower first.
Never did get that food.
4 MP's came up behind me and beat the shit out of me with clubs. Lost a stripe, 60 days in the brig and a nice series of scars from the clubbing.
So there is some bad sides to being a Marine.
I remember the good sides. The brotherhood. The feelings in combat. Things were very intense and I felt bullet proof till the day I discovered I was anything but.
Would I serve again? no. There has been far to much time and I am broken down. I do miss parts of it a lot. But the BS just would send me over the top again.
The biggest thing was being wounded. You are treated no better than a chunk of meat. The military washed its hands of me when they knew I was worthless to them anymore. I remain very bitter and angry about that. If they could have said or done just a little bit more when I had been wounded it might have made me more likely to say yes.
Let me describe the room I had at the V.A. Hospital in Chicago ; Rats ran across us at night. The big sewer kind. If you could not move, you had to be defended by others or risk being chewed on.
The head was 3/4 shut off. Toilets were stopped up or broked off and didnt work. Faucets and showers didnt work. Mold grew on the walls in bright green and black sheets. some spots covered walls over 15 feet long. you can google it and see photos of what I am talking about.
no medications,food,water sometimes for as long as 30 hrs. They claimed a staff shortage was the cause. I was in for almost 3 months and I never had my bedding changed. The food is worse that what the county feeds the boys in lockup.
Enlisting again means that I would go of my own free will. I would only if I could get another shot at that frickkin Major.

 

[K-9 Al]

This one is a tough one. Im still active duty but going through the MEB process. I enlisted on March 5th 2001. It was a very different Air Force back then. Over the last 10 years I haev seen the AF go straight downhill. Discpline has gone by the way side. The chain-of-command is clueless about PTSD and other types of pain that make Airmen not able to do the mission. It isnt our fault we got hurt physically, mentall or both. Hoewver, the stigma and the "press on" type of attitudes is too much. I am ready to leave the military. I have seen way to much BS, too much drama, too much hypocricy and that doesnt even include the deployments. The military doesnt giev a rats ass about its people. Its do the mission or you are useless. If your hurt then you press on. If yu cant then you are a quitter and now labeled as a POS. I cant take the military anymore. I cant take the PTSD, the horrors ive seen. The constant OPS tempo. Im ready to get on with life. There are some aspects I will miss but for the most part I wont miss much.