Torture Vs Abuse

[Air]

So I was thinking about this, and I'm curious to know where people would put the line between the two, or if there is a line even. I know there's the old U.N. definition, but it is highly vague and could almost be applied to any situation where someone in a position of power is causing pain. I mean for instance, if a father hits their child that could be seen as torture from the fact that it is someone in a position of power causing pain to someone. There's no real time period necessary or anything beyond the point that someone acting in an official capacity (technically he might not count in strict terms, but it was based on a state level and if we apply it to smaller areas parent should definitely fit) is intentionally causing harm to some person for some reason.

Personally I think that there are a couple of other caveats to put in; namely an inability to escape it, a length of time, and a structured approach by the perpetrator. Basically that if a person in a superior position inflicts pain intentionally multiple times with a planned approach, and the other person has an inability to escape.

I'm curious though, what does anyone else think the difference is? Is there a firm split there?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

First, toture is abuse but I understand your question.

Definintions:

Full Definition of torture

1. 1a : anguish of body or mind : agonyb : something that causes agony or pain
   
   
2. 2: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
   
   
3. 3: distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument : straining

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/torture

Definition of abuse

1. 1: a corrupt practice or custom
   
   
2. 2: improper or excessive use or treatment : misuse <drug abuse>
   
   
3. 3obsolete : a deceitful act : deception
   
   
4. 4: language that condemns or vilifies usually unjustly, intemperately, and angrily
   
   
5. 5: physical maltreatment

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abuse

Ok, so being someone that was tortured most of my life, I believe this one: "2: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure" is closer to what you are speaking of. Intense pain (or I will say intense suffering physical, mental, emotional, verbal, spirtual) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure is a good defintion where abuse is i think closer with these two " language that condemns or vilifies usually unjustly, intemperately, and angrily" and "5: physical maltreatment" so my difintion is any physical, verbal, mental, emotional, spirtual mistreatment.

Therefore torture is more intense of how abuse is defined (though still abuse), to punish or coerce and to give the one doing it some something. Id call it sadistic in nature though it isnt always. Like one can torture a prision of war to get enemy information, for instance of where one isnt getting pleasure but gaining something. So i believe the one doing the torturing must gain something from it whether its ememy information, pleasure, to have followers in a cult, to gain sadistic pleasure.

Abuse is any sort of mistreatment of another.

There are much better defintions other than Webster, they were just the easiest to copy and paste.

Does that make sense?

 

[Air]

First, toture is abuse but I understand your question

Ahh yes I should have mentioned that, of course all torture is also abuse.

I do understand, but still it's awfully vague. Pain is subjective, and judging levels of pain is even more difficult around psychological suffering. Maybe that's just the nature of the question though, just having a vague definition. I personally feel like it still has to be repetitive though personally, like if I someone cut my arm off and then let me go and I never saw them again, I wouldn't call it torture.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

like if I someone cut my arm off and then let me go and I never saw them again, I wouldn't call it torture.

I would! But thats just my opinion of the matter.

The difference, in my opinion, is intensity. If beat you, id say abuse, if i burned you, abuse but closer to torture, cutting you arm off even if let go, torture.

Imagine the torture while your arm is being cut off if not like a guillotine; and even so, the torture after.

It def has to do with intensity. Maybe logivity but i define it as intensity.

 

[Air]

I would! But thats just my opinion of the matter.

The difference, in my opinion, is intensi...

Well I suppose that pain would be quite intense, it's just that I don't know, something about that quickness of pain wouldn't really seem like torture if it wasn't long lasting. I suppose it could though, it's a bit of a grey area: on one hand it could be considered that way, but on the... same one it just doesn't feel right.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

it's a bit of a grey area

It def is. Where does abuse become defined as torture.

The reason I dont think its longitivy (only anyway) as people are say sexually abused for years and years but thats abuse, not defined torture. Not making that meaning is not as bad as it is, just trying to explain.

Also held against will, my torturers were my mom & step dad. My mom had legel custody of me. I could of told anyone at any time and i could of left as i was still going to school etc. Thats were coerce comes in as I was convinced I would go some place worse as thats what I was told for years.

I dont mean to talk about me specifically, Im just trying to explain where my view comes from and why bring held against will doesnt mean torture or it doesnt have to be.

Longivity; say I was kidnapped for a few hrs, tortured and let go. Thats torture but it is also being held against your will.

I dont know, I dont think theres a clear cut answer and there is an overlapping grey area where abuse becomes torture.

 

[Air]

The reason I dont think its longitivy (only anyway) as people are say sexually abused for years and years but thats abuse, not defined torture.

See the thing here though is that if the sexual abuse were intentionally done to harm the other person as the primary motivator, not simply for sexual satisfaction or dominance, but just to see the person suffer and it were done in a calculated manner, then I would see that as torture. The lack of escape is another thing you bring up that's a good point, I realize that my definition would have to be extended to include perceived lacks of escape, or extremely important reasons to stay, but if I'm adding all those in it sort of loses the point. Perhaps calculation is where the distinction lies for me. I agree that being held for even a few hours and subjected to pain would be torture, but I think my drawing off point is when it's calculated pain for pain's sake. Like if a kid is beaten daily whenever their father gets angry, I would consider that abuse, but if the father decides in a calm state of mind that he's going to beat his child every day at 3 P.M and 7 P.M, I think that becomes torture even if it isn't as intense as some things.

 

[Friday]

I've been tortured, and I've been abused, and yes... They are very different things. I've also had advanced interrogation training, which is a 3rd completely different thing. The training and the real thing couldn't be more different from each other. And while interrogation tactics may be physically more painful than many kinds of physical abuse? It's not the level of pain that creates the damage in abuse. A visual representation of those three things is very easily done: Y. Training at the bottom. Torture & Abuse on either arm.

I think part of the problem is that people use torture as a metaphor, as a way to describe how abuse feels. The same way that people use being a prisoner as a metaphor. It was pure torture. I was a prisoner in my own home. Etc.

I periodically go on rants about both, usually when well intentioned idiots try and apply either to describe a situation in which no, I was being abused, not tortured. And no, I was not a prisoner, as I had a choice/the ability to leave and chose not to. That's a completely different brand of f*cked up. That I chose to stay is actually an indicator of a -in many ways- worse situation. Just like childhood abuse, where a child is unable to leave because of the fact that they're a child, is a worse situation. Children don't need to be imprisoned, it's implicit that they depend on their abusers for the ability to live. That said, some children are actually imprisoned. Using either very specific thing as a metaphor? Just makes everything muddy. The same way that things would start getting clear as mud if CSA started being used as a metaphor.

Are there people whose abuser actually imprisons &/or tortures them? Yes. Just like there are people whose abuser sexually assaults them, rapes them, beats them, humiliates them, drowns them, stabs them, terrorizes them, threatens them, restrains them, drugs them, burns them, neglects them, ad naseam. Torture is a very specific kind of abuse. That it gets used as a catch-all phrase for any & all things that suck? Drives me a little up the wall.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

@Air I do agree with:

just to see the person suffer

in a calm state of mind that he's going to beat his child every day at 3 P.M and 7 P.M,

But then thats where my defintion first come in:

and to give the one doing it some something. Id call it sadistic in nature though it isnt always. Like one can torture a prision of war to get enemy information, for instance of where one isnt getting pleasure but gaining something. So i believe the one doing the torturing must gain something from it whether its ememy information, pleasure, to have followers in a cult, to gain sadistic pleasure.

I would certianly say that the one doing the torture must recieve something from it whether information, pleasure, sadistic pleasure etc.

So say the house wife that cant stand crying children and screams, cusses, calls them horrible names, and beats them isnt torture, thats abuse as shes lashing out, not receiving something.

One would ask what someone toeturing a kidnap victim recieve. Sadistic pleasure. So i think thats a good line to draw in my opinion.

Like I said though, they is an overlapping grey area where abuse becomes torture where it would be hard to figure out which it is and it could be defined by either depensing on how you look at it. I dont think its a straight line between the two. Certianly theres some overlap and grey area for sure.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Torture is a very specific kind of abuse.

Yea it is but to define it as a specific line drawn between the two I think is hard as I see them overlapping where abuse becomes torture and like I said, could be defined either way depending on how you look at it.

I do agree with the intensity of the abuse, certian kinds of things; and I do agree with either held against your will or percieved no other choice? I dont know, now Im a bit confused but def see overlap.

Would you say @FridayJones that there is a line that can be drawn or do they overlap like I described above?

 

[Air]

@Link Removed

If we got really existential in here, I could make an argument that lashing out is simply a misplaced attempt to fulfill your unfulfilled desires, but I take your point. I kind of thought the "to get something" is a useless qualifier since all actions that humans undertake are fundamentally motivated by desires and basic bodily needs, but in terms of direct desire, like an actual conscious desire to cause pain, then that does make sense. But I guess that's the grey area though, that point between when you're just acting out because you aren't in control and don't have a good way to solve anything, and the point where you fully have self-control and still choose to subject someone to pain.

 

[Air]

I've been tortured, and I've been abused, and yes... They are very different things. I've also had...

So I understand that you see them as very different, but what would you say is your definition of torture then? What separates the two?