News Baton Rouge, La

[StarChild]

when did you become police of my threads here?

I think the best answer for your question is your own statement:

Please stop reading intent where there is none.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

So does anyone have any thoughts on why police are being targeted and how we, as citizens could help to stop this? Suppose I could start a new thread but thoughta id ask here first.

 

[Anarchy]

So does anyone have any thoughts on why police are being targeted

There are no seperate stats gathered for how many people are shot by police. There are stats kept for how many SWAT raids there are and it works out at an average of around 150 a day. just savour that figure for a minute


that's a lot of people slammed to the ground and threatened with being shot in their homes
its also a lot of pet dogs shot
and it's at least one baby with his face blown off by a grenade thrown into his crib.

In that case, the cops are refusing to pay the medical bills and his parents are completely wiped out financially.

There's also the absolutely ludicrous; eg a few days back someone had called the cops about an autistic man armed with a toy truck and his carer. in order to "protect" the carer, the cops ordered the two to lie on the ground - and then with the carer lying on his back on the ground and his hands stretched out above his head, a cop shot the carer in his leg... yeah WTFH?

There's a lot of grievance stored up there.

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that's one side
another side is the possibility that this is (at least in part) being done by the state (or parallel structures within the state) in order to discredit the groups that are protesting genuine grievances about police brutality

That has been seen before - and the united state three letter agencies were instrumental in it.
Cops and conscripts and even a former prime minister were all murdered in false flag attacks, in order to discredit left wing parties in Europe from the mid 1960s, right through to the end of the 1980s:
Operation Gladio

Within the united state, there were also programs of massive harassment and propaganda against even peaceful leaders for change eg Martin Luther King
this came under the title of Cointelpro

I might also point to the CIA trained murder squads which operated throughout Latin America - in the name of protecting western civilization [/irony]

and point out that over half of the "terrorist" prosecutions in the united state since 9/11 have been the result of people being cajoled by the FBI into taking part in "actions" which were entirely scripted by the FBI. they weren't terrorist acts - they were street theatre.
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What do I think it is?

I don't know, and may never know,

but certainly do not exclude any of those posibilities

The united state has a massive problem with police violence and impunity

The united state also has massive economic and political problems - and the current (exceedingly wealthy) status quo has every incentive to keep people frightened and at each others throats in the hope that people will continue to cling to them for leadership and protection from the chaos - that that leadership itself is creating.

 

[joeylittle]

Police are being targeted because there have been many, many crimes committed by the police in the name of 'Policing', and the majority of those that have garnered national attention were crimes committed against people with black or brown skin.

The proliferation of hand-held video recording devices - aka cell-phones - has provided documentation of these crimes, when before, there was none.

This article is very well-written and explores both sides of the problem, using a single incident as a case study:
Dead Link Removed

Police departments design rules and training with the aim of resolving difficult situations without shooting anyone. But the rules vary enormously. About half of departments allow officers to give chase no matter what offense a suspect has committed, while the other half limits pursuits to certain kinds of offenses, according to a study by the International Association of Chiefs of Police.

After Las Vegas police in 2009 adopted a use-of-force policy requiring officers to put the highest premium on “the sanctity of human life,” some other departments followed suit. Four years after the change in Las Vegas, the city’s officer-involved shootings had fallen by nearly half. “That is a real sign of the times, a new kind of language that changes police culture,” said Wexler, [Chuck Wexler, executive director of the Police Executive Research Forum, a Washington police think tank.], whose organization recommends tighter pursuit policies. “The guiding principle has to be proportionality: Is my action proportional to the act being committed?"...When New York, Boston and other big cities tightened rules on pursuits, they saw a sharp decline in the number of officers who shot at vehicles.

This article is more recent, and does a very good job explaining the statistics and adjusting for percentage of population (which, in my opinion, is critical to factor - otherwise, you can spin the situation to appear very different):
Dead Link Removed

Police have shot and killed a young black man (ages 18 to 29) — such as Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. —175 times since January 2015; 24 of them were unarmed. Over that same period, police have shot and killed 172 young white men, 18 of whom were unarmed. Once again, while in raw numbers there were similar totals of white and black victims, blacks were killed at rates disproportionate to their percentage of the U.S. population. Of all of the unarmed people shot and killed by police in 2015, 40 percent of them were black men, even though black men make up just 6 percent of the nation’s population.

I'm not saying it justifies more and more killing.

But personally, I believe that the next move should be aggressive and monitored law-enforcement reform. Training needs to be better, preserving human life higher on the scale, and all this needs to be communicated clearly with real change being seen and felt.

Til then, it's not going to get any better.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

But personally, I believe that the next move should be aggressive and monitored law-enforcement reform. Training needs to be better, preserving human life higher on the scale, and all this needs to be communicated clearly with real change being seen and felt.

I agree with this. In some places including here, police are starting to wear a body camera that must be on just like their dash camera. I think thats a great idea as the officers that are doing these things can be caught or stop as they are now able to get caught and it also shows the falsely accused what actually happened. I think those need to be manditory of all police officers accoss the country. And maditroy so if they turn it off or block it on purpose, they get fired. Sure, theres ways to block it that doesnt look ourposful but overall i think it will be a good thing.

Also retraining i also agree with. How to properly do things for the most minimal human life/wounding. Take those down a notch that has a big Ego (like most of my county's officers that are huge dicks).

But its seems to me to be like racisim or racial profiling or something of the sort as some bad doesnt make them all bad; and killing never is an answer to any frustration of our police force or anything for that matter. Its so extreme. Are people that frustrated that they's shoot at a bunch of police (that have their own guns by the way)? I dont get that.

 

[Anarchy]

But personally, I believe that the next move should be aggressive and monitored law-enforcement reform. Training needs to be better, preserving human life higher on the scale, and all this needs to be communicated clearly with real change being seen and felt.

Til then, it's not going to get any better.

there needs to be a change in incentive too

If you or I killed someone, anything we said to anyone could be used against us in a court.

For an American cop, what he says as he is de briefed and in consultation with his superiors and union reps over the following days and weeks CANNOT be used in court

then there is the whole preferential treatment by prosecutors (who know that if cops shun them, their career is as good as over).

If we take the Peelian Principle that cops are merely citizens, paid to give attention full time to that which is the duty of all citizens (Peel was full of platitudes, most of which I don't think he was sincere about)

then a cop should face exactly the same procedure as any other citizen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles

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Any reform of police needs a good clear out of the higher ranks, who's management is currently seriously deficient.

in the follow up to the Knapp report into corruption in NYC PD, there was something like a 90% turnover of the ranks of captain and above in the year or two years after the report.

going back a few years, Russia sacked something like quarter of a million cops - crime fell after that. it may be a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this), but I doubt it.

The accounts that I've come across suggest that some police departments ARE the criminals, responsible for burglaries, protection rackets, black markets in stolen goods, kiddy fiddling...
here's an example of such an account Link Removed

 

[lostforgottensoul]

then a cop should face exactly the same procedure as any other citizen

If im understanding you, if a cop (whom is there to protect citizens as are miltary etc) shoots someone in the line of duty because that person pulled out a gun on them or a millon other things that can happen in a cop's day that wouldnt happen in most citizen's day, that they should face a court, trail, 12 of his peers AND be out of work because he protected, say, another citizen from being shot (as an example).

If thats what you are saying then I completely disagree. I do agree that REQUIRED body video cameras can show exactly what happened even on a foot chase so IA can see that the cop was right or wrong along with tightening up on IA investigations.

some police departments ARE the criminals, responsible for burglaries, protection rackets, black markets in stolen goods, kiddy fiddling

I agree but "some" is a VERY important word in that statement.

As is the "Subway guy" or many others out there. One of my abusers was a cop. I get the corruption but some rotten apples doesnt make the entire basket rotten!

 

[joeylittle]

Are people that frustrated that they's shoot at a bunch of police (that have their own guns by the way)? I dont get that.

Yes, because it's a pervasive problem and there's nothing being done about it.

I don't believe in it - but I understand it. A tipping point was reached. If you try and try repeatedly for justice and justice doesn't happen, this does instead.

And yes - a police officer should be held to a higher standard specifically because they are there to preserve law and order, not shoot first and ask questions later.

The application of the 'sanctity of human life' concept in Las Vegas, and how it radically reduced shootings and deaths altogether - is good proof of how many options the police have.

Look: they are armed. They wear vests. They have body armor. They can maintain a safe distance.

f*ck no, they don't need to shoot bullets nearly as often as they do.

We aren't talking about deadly hostage situations. We are talking about shooting a person already on the ground. We are talking about telling someone to get their hands out of their pockets and then shooting them while the hand is coming out. We are talking about choking a man to death.

There should be a higher standard of accountability.

And the cameras aren't really changing anything. I think that's like putting a filling on top of a rotting tooth. Nice idea but it's trying to regulate police by threat, instead of requiring them to be better at their jobs in the first place.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

@joeylittle i do see where you are coming from and agree. The body cameras arent a full requirememt, at least not the last i heard. If they require every officer to wear one 24/7 and they tighten up on internal investigations and review the body camera footage (no camera footage then harsher punishment/possible loss of job) i think that will help.

Also cops have tazer guns and other things that bring the suspect down without possible death, that can help too. Not possible in all situations obviously but in some and that can lower the possible death in the situation.

I get the frustration but not up to shooting of cops and taking lives. I just dont get homicide. I dont get how one can take another life.

ETA: I do also understand the difference in small town cops and big city (like im in) cops.

 

[Anarchy]

Pigs Cops are humans
reptiles politicians are humans

where do the assumptions that they have special privileges over the rest of us "mundanes" come from?

are they cleverer than the rest of us?
no - there are actually limits stopping people with high IQ becoming cops and politicians might be good at BS but they're not necessarily good at anything other than BS.

are they "nicer" than us?
rhetorical question

cops don't actually have any obligation to protect™ us mundanes, and in murica there is case law stating that http://nypost.com/2013/01/27/city-says-cops-had-no-duty-to-protect-subway-hero-who-subdued-killer/

as a counterpoint, there have been prosecutions of mundanes for failing to risk their lives to protect the anointed and exalted fatties in sacred blue costumes.

In practice there are about three times as many people working in private sector security than there are cops.
Those private sector security people work at all levels, from store and mall security people, watchmen at construction sites and factory gates...
People on the doors of apartment blocks, people providing protection for people who are at risk, and for cargoes of frequently stolen goods (eg cigarette deliveries)
and high level security work, for example internal security in banks, finding stolen goods for insurance companies, carrying out security audits for businesses, catching employees who are stealing...

The existence of that number and that range of private sector security people, starkly shows the limitations of the overpaid over privileged and over fed, tax funded state sector clowns.
None of those private sector people get special treatment if they kill someone.

Even if the exalted pigs cops did protect™ us mundanes would that be reason to grant them special privileges over mundanes?

Without farmers growing food - most of us would starve - should farmers have special dispensation to kill mundanes because of that essential function that they perform in society?

Without the results of coal mining and oil drilling, most of us would freeze in the winter, should coal miners, oil drillers and power generation workers have special dispensation to kill mundanes because of the essential service that they perform?

Without the work of loggers, few of us would have the comfortable houses that protect us from the weather - should loggers have special dispensation for killing mundanes because of the essential service which they perform?

Incidentally - each of those three groups has at least double the per capita fatalities at work that pigs cops have, In forestry work it's something like four to eight times the per capita fatality rate of the exalted pigs cops.

Because those groups have far more dangerous jobs than the exalted pigs cops - should they get special dispensation to kill mundanes for that reason?

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I must get out of the bad habit, most of the four legged porkers that I've known have been sweet natured and productive individuals.

 

[Anarchy]

Also cops have tazer guns and other things that bring the suspect down without possible death, that can help too. Not possible in all situations obviously but in some and that can lower the possible death in the situation.

EXTREME TRIGGER WARNING
only watch the video if you are ready to watch extreme real life violence and several real life murders - by cops

about five seconds into the video, there is a young woman, Danielle Maudsley, falling backwards after being tazed
she had been arrested for a minor offence, and had run away from the overweight cop, he knew where she lived, she couldn't have got far, and she wasn't a danger to anyone.

the cop's overweight ego must have been offended at her uppityness, because he tazed her, resulting in her hitting her head, loosing consciousness and never regaining it - that's the fat bastard imo murdering her

 

[lostforgottensoul]

@Anarchy, i'll pass on the video. Had enough murder and killing in my life.

Your assement on cops, I get the feeling you dont like them. Most especially with the crossed out "pigs" (my ex called them that but my ex also had been in prison, I hated it). Im unsure how you are forming that opinion (ex: UK cops, US cops, all of them, personal bad experiences, etc) but directly just speaking about cops in the US (and rural areas vs heavily populated can differ but i only have experience in heavily populated).

I bet I can show you video of even more cops that saves lives then take it. Personally a cop saved my life from my ex, the cop tazed him, a cop saved my life from someone trying to run me off the road, he kept trying to slam into my car while we were driving, over road rage. A cop saved my life when I stepped between my friend at the time and her boyfriend whom had a knife (yes, dumb move but if i had it to do over im sure i would again as thats just me), i had a break in, I hid inside of my closet where I called 911 and wouldnt come out even though they cleared the house, he was gone. A cop talked me out of the closet. They could of just told me no one was there and left.

Cops cannot be compared to security guards (not saying security guards arent important as they are) but security guards arent there when I call 911. They have two different job duties.

Again, just opinions based on experience with cops inside of several big cities ive lived in two different States. Also unsure how UK cops are and what they're role is, and one cop was one of the 10 loyal followers of the cult in which I was raised in and numbmours times abused me and could have hated them but they have saved my life more than once.

I credit not hating cops, due to my trauma, to my high school police officer at school whom was a K9 narcotics cop. He took me under his wing and really helped me.

Some rotten apples dont make them all rotten (aka, not all cops or even most cops are bad and do protect).