Complicated case of ptsd

[Deleted member 35429]

Cross-posted with the above, just my very humble opinion, but after being through the scenarios of perc...

This is actually all true for me as well. My PTSD is specifically linked to life threatening situations and I think the reality of it all contributed to the severity.

However, many many people have PTSD from non violent abuse, or other violating or frightening situations that weren't life threatening. These stories are all over this site. They can't all be making this up.

 

[Tinyflame]

I think as Anthony said referencing facts, as well as @joeylittle:

Better to try and fully understand what the industry best-practice standards are, and look for answers that way, rather than assuming that just because it 'makes sense' to you that the illusion of dying is the same as a real threat of dying.

I don't believe people are making things up, I think they are doing the best they can to understand why they feel and react as they do. But the explanation may or may not be (partly or wholly) ptsd.

I can only say for myself, though it is wonderful to find understanding, I think it's very innacurate to identify ourselves 'as' ptsd, or 'as' anything, or as 'having unimaginable trauma', since once you've had it it's quite imaginable; I would say also some of the worst traumas are probably experienced by those who would never be able to reach this site, or those who see what's been done to others- for example too, those who never speak out or focus on help for themself, a friend of mine picking up a child's foot still in it's shoe, or another who picks up body parts all day- but that's JMHO. We had a guy out here who watched someone get beheaded, followed by cannibalism, he went on to drink, get divorced, get diagnosed with ptsd then killed himself. They told the witnesses 'they should get over it in a month', who knows maybe some did- though I doubt in a month. I do think it's self evident however when a person is seemingly left behaving in a mentally ill manner, that something has contributed or is going on, whether that be circumstances, biology, +/or genetics, etc. But only competent professionals can truly tease apart the realities of what is going on. My knowledge is limited, that is why I trust those with far more implicit understanding who weigh in. The intracies and sheer breadth and depth of their knowledge is immense, mine is not.

We actually do not know peoples' histories, at all.

But even this is JMHO.

 

[anthony]

I don't understand how you can say, as fact, that believing something is life threatening isn't the same as it actually being life threatening

Whilst I agree with you to a degree, there is also another angle of this that you can't apply the full context. If you allow the belief that something is life threatening to engage defined trauma, as fact, then you open a doorway to:

• I believe I will die if I get in a car.
• I believe I will die because I live on a corner block of a busy road and a car will eventually hit my house and kill me.
• A long list of believe situations...

See the problem? Nothing happened, just a belief.

Yes, a belief diagnostically applies to learning of the death of a loved one, the belief you could have died within an actual event that happened / witnessed.

See the difference? Something actually happened for the belief to occur.

You can't loosely apply what you're saying and use the word fact in the same sentence with belief, as though broadly applicable.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I don't understand how you can say, as fact, that believing something is life threatening isn't the same as it actually being life threatening.

Because it isn't.

I've been through both. I had actual physical things happen to me where I thought I was about to die (being drowned, having a gun pointed at me, beaten to an inch of death, being choked - I could go on) daily in my trauma.

This is one of the reasons I have PTSD.

And then I was a coke & crack addict. Paranoia city. Due to that I thought I was about to die on a pretty regular basis. I believed it but it was not actually going to happen. I did do a shit ton a few times and I was outside screaming due to that intense "I"m going to die" fear.

This I did not get PTSD from. I actually got no diagnosis from this. It was very tramatic in the moment but later, yeah, not so much.

Continious issues due to an earlier drug use (a bad trip that continues long after the drug is taken) is exactly the same.

Just because your brain believes it in the moment does not mean you can develop PTSD later. It is NOT the same experience, in the moment, as having a thing happen where you really thought you were about to die. It just isn't. It processes differently in the brain. There are much different symptoms (if you even have symptoms due to the drug use) and issues and it feels MUCH different after.

It would be a much better use of time and energy to look for what fits this rather then trying to bend PTSD to fit it. It is not possible to have PTSD due to something relating to drug use. Period.

 

[Deleted member 35429]

Then how do so many people get PTSD from non-violent coercive sexual assaults?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

get PTSD from non-violent coercive sexual assaults?

Read criteria A closer:

Criterion A (one required): The person was exposed to: death, threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or actual or threatened sexual violence, in the following way(s):

 

[anonymous]

Just because it isn't painful, doesn't mean it isn't frightening or real.
A child being abused in such a way is being led into a situation where they are trapped. Having to participate in acts they know are very wrong and that they are being violated.

Coercion doesn't only mean begging, it includes threats and blackmail.

"If you tell anyone about this, I'll come to your house and kill your family."
While nothing damaging occurred to the child's physical body, as a direct result of the abuse, they are forced to deal with a situation that is way outside their ability to comprehend, let alone overcome. Often repeatedly. On their own, terrified, desperate for someone to help them. Yet also terrified that if someone does find out and try to help, the abuser will find out and follow through on their threats. There's no way of kmowing whether or not those threats were serious.


Again it's all real. It really happened. Add to that, when the child gets old enough after the event to fully comprehend their experience. They aren't going to brush it off with "at least they didn't hit me". They're going to be hit with the overwhelming realization of just how bad what they experienced really was.

Anyone willing to sexually abuse a child, does not have their best interest at heart. They are in fact a dangerous person for a child to trapped alone with. Who knows what else they could be capable of.

As I understand it, that's why coercive sexual assault qualifies.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Coercion doesn't only mean begging, it includes threats and blackmail.

It also doesn't require threats or being a child. Sexual abuse or sexual assult fits criteria A, period. So, even if it didn't include threats or preceived threats, it still fits as it is sexual assult directly exposed.

Also, you must remember that most of those exposed to a trauma do not gain PTSD. But, it must have been a thing that happened to you or you were direct witness of. Drug use and beliving you are going to die, though not reality, does not fit the criteria...no matter how anyone tries to bend it.

 

[Sideways]

@0101 - because the nature of the violence in sex crimes has the same effect as life-threatening trauma.

 

[anthony]

Then how do so many people get PTSD from non-violent coercive sexual assaults?

Coercive is an intriguing choice of words, so lets define that first.

Coercive means relating to or using force or threats.

So if manipulation, force or threats are being used in a sexual act, now making it an assault, as you use the term sexual assaults, I would not say force is non-violent. Force is force, a person is being held down and raped, that is violent in nature. A person is being held, captive, beyond their choice, threatened, all of which turn violent at the drop of a hat. Manipulated into a sexual act would not count for belief of death, as you chose that one. But force and threats... easy outcome.

Your definition of wording really fits quite well to define why the belief of death under such situation is relevant to PTSD, other than if manipulated (a lesser form of coercion).

 

[Deleted member 35429]

So in summary, you all are stating that the perceived threat of death doesn't cause PTSD. It has to be 100% true and real threat of death, no exceptions...except in case of sex abuse, then anything goes,...is that right? It could be a very minor violation or sexual intrusion but it can cause valid PTSD but this poor poster that felt a certain sense of impending death and terror from a drug reaction can't possibly have PTSD? Does this make any sense to you? From a human perspective, does what you are saying make any sense at all?

I just think so many people on here have pretty vanilla stories that aren't true life threatening events and they have diagnoses of PTSD. Many were perceived threats and you guys are stating these people can't possibly have PTSD despite their doctor's all saying that have PTSD??

No joke, a cousin of mine had nightmares and flashbacks and therapy for MONTHS for ptsd from having a spider in her ear. I'm not even kidding. She really did have PTSD from a perceived threat of death thinking the spider was laying eggs that were hatching inside her head and potentially permanently harming her brain. The spider was real but the threat of death was not. But she was absolutely traumatized by this.

To the original poster, I think you have very real post traumatic stress symptoms. It may be compounded with other things but if I had that terrifying experience I would be traumatized too. I hope you get the help you deserve.

 

[Deleted member 35429]

@0101 - because the nature of the violence in sex crimes has the same effect...

Not true. Non violent but coercive sex crimes cause PTSD.
Go on a sex assault forum. It's full of teenagers feeling manipulated and used but they admit they weren't held down or forced. They all have PTSD from the betrayal and invasion and their own inability to say no because they wanted to be liked. They openly admit there wasn't a threat of death or violence. They were coerced and manipulated...and eventually diagnosed with PTSD. So these gray area sexual assaults are valid PTSD but this terrifying drug reaction is not??

Makes no sense.

I have a pretty severe trauma background, so I cannot speak from experience, I'm just telling you what other people claim. They have the same PTSD symptoms as you and me, but from perceived threats of death or anihilation, not real threats of death. Telling someone that had a very real close call from a drug interaction that he doesn't have PTSD is absurd.