Chiqui
Platinum Member
I wonder how could avoid avoidance. Its one of my core ones. If I don't face It, I don't fail. Because if I fail, the inner Monster will chase me non stop until he gets and breaks me.
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Name that distorted cognition (thought/perception)
- Post starter ms spock
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ms spock
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It is a hard one @Chiqui I don't know if it will help you, but what I did was break down self compassion to tiny incremental steps to build up a bank of self care and self love - feel uncomfortable even typing that - but I read David Burns' book "Feeling Good," and did Kristin Neff Self Compassion Breaks and her website in general, Instant Mindfulness on the dbtselfhelp watching those, and bit by bit doing a little to begin to build up a way to deal tiny bit by tiny bit to deal with the inner Monster, but not so I confronted the inner Monster directly because that (for me) leads to endless ruminations and maladaptive daydreaming. Really, really small bits and practising 3 x 1 per minutes to start off.
Just starting to notice and name the distorted cogntions was one of the many strategies I did. I do guided Mindfulness but not the open ones because my head is really not helpful, and for five years I kept with the guided meditations. So healthy eating a little, exercise, distraction, self soothing and gaining little bits of of skills to work towards breaking down that corrosive self doubt.
I am listening to Brene Brown's audiobook on being vulnerable, and she has some interesting ways to look at worthiness, shame and guilt. So it is helping.
The Mindful Way Through Depression, audiobook really assisted me, as did The Mindful Way through Anxiety , as well. So I get an audiobook and listen and listen and take it in. I struggle so much with dissociation, depersonalisation, derealisation and corrosive self doubt. So I am trying to retrain my brain.
Breathing and Grounding - that is what I am looking at, again, right now.
You can listen to a lot of this stuff for free on youtube.
You have to pace it so you don't set off your inner Monster, and for me suicidal ideation, self destruction, and self abuse, in a totally full on way. Little bits are okay but very little bits.
I had to find my own way. I have to work hard, and for a long time without much seeming progress, but now I am seeing big changes now but it took me a very long time.
Just starting to notice and name the distorted cogntions was one of the many strategies I did. I do guided Mindfulness but not the open ones because my head is really not helpful, and for five years I kept with the guided meditations. So healthy eating a little, exercise, distraction, self soothing and gaining little bits of of skills to work towards breaking down that corrosive self doubt.
I am listening to Brene Brown's audiobook on being vulnerable, and she has some interesting ways to look at worthiness, shame and guilt. So it is helping.
The Mindful Way Through Depression, audiobook really assisted me, as did The Mindful Way through Anxiety , as well. So I get an audiobook and listen and listen and take it in. I struggle so much with dissociation, depersonalisation, derealisation and corrosive self doubt. So I am trying to retrain my brain.
Breathing and Grounding - that is what I am looking at, again, right now.
You can listen to a lot of this stuff for free on youtube.
You have to pace it so you don't set off your inner Monster, and for me suicidal ideation, self destruction, and self abuse, in a totally full on way. Little bits are okay but very little bits.
I had to find my own way. I have to work hard, and for a long time without much seeming progress, but now I am seeing big changes now but it took me a very long time.
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Chiqui
Platinum Member
@Disco Dancing Queen
It's so very much inspiring your way on handle this matter. Definitly agree, needs to be done little by little. Almost as if the Monster couldn't feel threatened on historia kingdom.
Silently but constante. Same here about guided meditatios.I did It for a decade and also wrote specific meditations for my problems. It didn't worked for me. It left me also dissasociated, despersonalized and with suicidal idealization. Even signs of paranoia and psicosis. I wonder if you could explain to me the difference between mindfulness and meditation, because I am terrified that mindfulness makes the same effect on me.
The sharing of your efforts and tools here are very much valued and appreciatted for me..
It's so very much inspiring your way on handle this matter. Definitly agree, needs to be done little by little. Almost as if the Monster couldn't feel threatened on historia kingdom.
Silently but constante. Same here about guided meditatios.I did It for a decade and also wrote specific meditations for my problems. It didn't worked for me. It left me also dissasociated, despersonalized and with suicidal idealization. Even signs of paranoia and psicosis. I wonder if you could explain to me the difference between mindfulness and meditation, because I am terrified that mindfulness makes the same effect on me.
The sharing of your efforts and tools here are very much valued and appreciatted for me..
- Post starter
- #844
ms spock
VIP Member
Do you have a decent trauma trained professional working with you @Chiqui? I don't really have the skills to give any advice to you. I think you are needing to see someone who is a decent and solid practitioner.
I found that writing a trauma diary was of assistance to me, it may or may not be for you.
If you have found meditation doesn't work for you @Chiqui, then don't do it, your Monster is too fierce at this time. I would suggest that Mindfulness, whilst different to meditation, from what you are saying is not for you.
What kinds of things can you do? Like exercise, teeny tiny bits of self compassion etc?
My understanding of Mindfulness is based on what I have learnt and my small but humble practises. I have only been doing it since 2013, so I have learnt a lot but I have a lot more to learn. So, to me, Mindfulness is being here in this now and like watching the food coming on the spoon to your mouth and then chewing the food, tasting the food, feeling the food in your mouth, and feeling yourself swallow it. Mindful walking is feeling the senstation of your feet on the ground, and lifting one foot up, and feeling what it is like as you lift your foot up and how it feels to put it down again. Feeling the sun on your back, listening to a song and truly listen to the song.
I would suggest keeping right away from both meditation and Mindfulness until you have gained some skills that you can take on in teeny tiny steps. You have to look after yourself. Meditation doesn't work for everyone. Mindfulness is not for everyone. I really had to work out specific ways to do Mindfulness for myself, and it was hard going.
I actually had to do my own research to find out how to manage my own Mindfulness. There was one good book, that might interest you,
Mindfulness-Oriented Interventions for Trauma: Integrating Contemplative Practices 1st Edition . by Dead Link Removed (Editor), Dead Link Removed (Editor), Dead Link Removed (Editor), James W. Hopper (Editor), Dead Link Removed (Editor). But I could only read a few pages or paragraphs when I began.
In a couple of years you could try something like this Radical Acceptance but that would most likely not be of assistance of you at this time.
Sadly I can't even give you a guide of how to proceed, it just took me the longest time, I mean decades for me to work it out.
I found that writing a trauma diary was of assistance to me, it may or may not be for you.
Yes very slow, very kind, not comparing your progress to anyone else you have to do it really, really, really slowly so as not to trigger off your self destruction. The Monster has to be handled with kid gloves, or all hell would break lose.
Yes this happened for me in 2013, and it was a terrible experience. Like you I was dissociated, depersonalised, derealised and the suicidal ideation went through the roof. I actually attempted suicide a number of times after doing the 8 week Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) course. I should never have been allowed to join that grow, given how brutally honest I was about my condition at that time, but anyhow.
If you have found meditation doesn't work for you @Chiqui, then don't do it, your Monster is too fierce at this time. I would suggest that Mindfulness, whilst different to meditation, from what you are saying is not for you.
What kinds of things can you do? Like exercise, teeny tiny bits of self compassion etc?
My understanding of Mindfulness is based on what I have learnt and my small but humble practises. I have only been doing it since 2013, so I have learnt a lot but I have a lot more to learn. So, to me, Mindfulness is being here in this now and like watching the food coming on the spoon to your mouth and then chewing the food, tasting the food, feeling the food in your mouth, and feeling yourself swallow it. Mindful walking is feeling the senstation of your feet on the ground, and lifting one foot up, and feeling what it is like as you lift your foot up and how it feels to put it down again. Feeling the sun on your back, listening to a song and truly listen to the song.
I would suggest keeping right away from both meditation and Mindfulness until you have gained some skills that you can take on in teeny tiny steps. You have to look after yourself. Meditation doesn't work for everyone. Mindfulness is not for everyone. I really had to work out specific ways to do Mindfulness for myself, and it was hard going.
I actually had to do my own research to find out how to manage my own Mindfulness. There was one good book, that might interest you,
Mindfulness-Oriented Interventions for Trauma: Integrating Contemplative Practices 1st Edition . by Dead Link Removed (Editor), Dead Link Removed (Editor), Dead Link Removed (Editor), James W. Hopper (Editor), Dead Link Removed (Editor). But I could only read a few pages or paragraphs when I began.
In a couple of years you could try something like this Radical Acceptance but that would most likely not be of assistance of you at this time.
Sadly I can't even give you a guide of how to proceed, it just took me the longest time, I mean decades for me to work it out.
I am not a professional, and I have no personal frame of reference to offer you any general assistance, but you have to be very, very careful, and do things very, very, very slowly. And I would suggest absolutely not at all, because the bounce back from this is too serious. You have to keep yourself safe, so slowly, slowly, slowly and then go slowly. It took me a long time to work out how to do things for my particular constellations of trauma. I accepted that being dissociated was part of my practising for quite awhile. Gradually I have moved out of it, but you know I am just about to shift again.
I passionately urge you to not do it. It is too dangerous for you, as it was for me in the beginning.
You comments kind of make me feel more real, not many people have actually understood what it is that I am dealing with, so not many people need to do things like I need/needed to do them. And you are most welcome.
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- #845
ms spock
VIP Member
If you want to we can private message @Chiqui, or you could start a thread in a forum of your choice and tag me and I will come and write all the above out for you again. These posts are going off on a tangent, which I don't mind for a couple of posts, but it would be good to write this down as a thread for the others that come after us, so they have some clues of a roadmap for themselves?
Think about that and let me know what you want to do.
I really feel for you. I really do. I wish I had more answers, but I don't, I just have a handmade recovery process which often looks very different to the people around me. I would suggest that you don't meditate. I would suggest that you don't do Mindfulness. And if anyone is unskilled enough to try to get you to do that I would suggest that walking away could be an option on the table at that point, particularly after what I went through, though of course, that is just me, and you would make your own assessments.
Think about that and let me know what you want to do.
I really feel for you. I really do. I wish I had more answers, but I don't, I just have a handmade recovery process which often looks very different to the people around me. I would suggest that you don't meditate. I would suggest that you don't do Mindfulness. And if anyone is unskilled enough to try to get you to do that I would suggest that walking away could be an option on the table at that point, particularly after what I went through, though of course, that is just me, and you would make your own assessments.
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- #846
ms spock
VIP Member
All or nothing thinking -- You see things in black and white categories. If your performance falls short of perfect, you see yourself as a total failure. I engage in this distorted cognition. I avoid doing things so as not to fail. I check out.
Over-generalization -- You see a single negative event as a never-ending pattern of defeat. I go here quite a bit. This type of thinking contributes to helplessness and hopelessness, and I am working on that.
Mental filter -- You pick out a single negative detail and dwell on it so exclusively that your vision of all reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that colors the entire beaker of water. I do this often as well. I need to not do that around my sense of belonging and people because it makes me vulnerable to predators and abusive men.
Disqualifying the positive -- You reject positive experiences by insisting they "don't count" for some reason or other. In this way you can maintain a negative belief that is contradicted by your everyday experiences. Often I see my whole life as a failure. I have been very successful, I prevented my Father from killing my whole family. I was a nutcase because I had been abused so much and so brutally.
Jumping to conclusions -- You make a negative interpretation even though there are no definite facts that convincingly support your conclusion. (Involves mind-reading and fortune-telling.) I don't check in with what people are thinking or doing. I do what I think forecast that they would want me to do. I am not responding in real time a lot of the time. This has put me in very vulnerable positions.
My jumping to conclusions, mind reading etc left me open to an abusive man who is now engaged with domestic violence with his ex, I have missed and dodged an important bullet. Standing my ground was such a wise thing to do. And wow I could be living with that guy now, and I am not living with him, so breaking down my distorted thinking bit by bit has saved me a lot of grief and pain.
We have been back tracking and tracing back the lies and gas lighting! Wow last September he told her I didn't like her/was upset with her, and she stopped coming up to the house. It was so preplanned, and well thought out and executed.
I thought it was my social phobia, that wanted to avoid him, but no it was not social phobia but my deeper self picking up what he was doing, that he was not safe to be around. I doubted myself, and I got done over. This is why I dissociate and avoid people so as to avoid situations like this. But anyhow I have more of an idea of how to manage this better next time. And I can trust my own perceptions and reality. I dissociated because he was not safe, and I needed to have listened to myself. I also picked up that he was using B to a certain extent but it was much more than that. I also picked up his lies, but I didn't challenge him, or unpick that apart. He is a manipulative bastard. He is so clever with his gas lighting and lying. I doubted my reactions and my perceptions so I was much more on the money than I gave myself credit for.
Magnification and minimization -- You exaggerate the importance of things, or you inappropriately shrink things until they appear tiny.
I just become what I think is wanted a lot of the time. I was minimised recently and that burnt me so badly. I actually felt my feelings, and it was horrible.
Emotional reasoning -- You assume that your emotions necessarily reflect the way things really are, as in "I feel it, therefore it must be true."
I really live in this so much. Just because I feel it does not mean it is true. More crap in my head, my head is lying to me.
Should statements -- You try to motivate yourself with "should" and "should not," I whip and punish myself could be expected to do anything. I am harsh with myself. I just stand on my own throat. I pummel myself over and over. So I am so low so neither of my parents will stomp on me.
Labeling and mislabeling -- This is an extreme form of overgeneralization. Instead of describing your error, you attach a negative label to yourself. I do a lot of this. I am abusive to myself. I am really abusive to myself at times, and I am just beginning to realise that to a deeper level.
Personalization -- You see yourself as the cause of some negative external event which, in fact, you were not primarily responsible for.
I still do this surrounding my family. Yeah and the shame, the shame is totally overwhelming. I am drowing in my own shame. I am paralysed by my own shame.
Over-generalization -- You see a single negative event as a never-ending pattern of defeat. I go here quite a bit. This type of thinking contributes to helplessness and hopelessness, and I am working on that.
Mental filter -- You pick out a single negative detail and dwell on it so exclusively that your vision of all reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that colors the entire beaker of water. I do this often as well. I need to not do that around my sense of belonging and people because it makes me vulnerable to predators and abusive men.
Disqualifying the positive -- You reject positive experiences by insisting they "don't count" for some reason or other. In this way you can maintain a negative belief that is contradicted by your everyday experiences. Often I see my whole life as a failure. I have been very successful, I prevented my Father from killing my whole family. I was a nutcase because I had been abused so much and so brutally.
Jumping to conclusions -- You make a negative interpretation even though there are no definite facts that convincingly support your conclusion. (Involves mind-reading and fortune-telling.) I don't check in with what people are thinking or doing. I do what I think forecast that they would want me to do. I am not responding in real time a lot of the time. This has put me in very vulnerable positions.
My jumping to conclusions, mind reading etc left me open to an abusive man who is now engaged with domestic violence with his ex, I have missed and dodged an important bullet. Standing my ground was such a wise thing to do. And wow I could be living with that guy now, and I am not living with him, so breaking down my distorted thinking bit by bit has saved me a lot of grief and pain.
We have been back tracking and tracing back the lies and gas lighting! Wow last September he told her I didn't like her/was upset with her, and she stopped coming up to the house. It was so preplanned, and well thought out and executed.
I thought it was my social phobia, that wanted to avoid him, but no it was not social phobia but my deeper self picking up what he was doing, that he was not safe to be around. I doubted myself, and I got done over. This is why I dissociate and avoid people so as to avoid situations like this. But anyhow I have more of an idea of how to manage this better next time. And I can trust my own perceptions and reality. I dissociated because he was not safe, and I needed to have listened to myself. I also picked up that he was using B to a certain extent but it was much more than that. I also picked up his lies, but I didn't challenge him, or unpick that apart. He is a manipulative bastard. He is so clever with his gas lighting and lying. I doubted my reactions and my perceptions so I was much more on the money than I gave myself credit for.
Magnification and minimization -- You exaggerate the importance of things, or you inappropriately shrink things until they appear tiny.
I just become what I think is wanted a lot of the time. I was minimised recently and that burnt me so badly. I actually felt my feelings, and it was horrible.
Emotional reasoning -- You assume that your emotions necessarily reflect the way things really are, as in "I feel it, therefore it must be true."
I really live in this so much. Just because I feel it does not mean it is true. More crap in my head, my head is lying to me.
Should statements -- You try to motivate yourself with "should" and "should not," I whip and punish myself could be expected to do anything. I am harsh with myself. I just stand on my own throat. I pummel myself over and over. So I am so low so neither of my parents will stomp on me.
Labeling and mislabeling -- This is an extreme form of overgeneralization. Instead of describing your error, you attach a negative label to yourself. I do a lot of this. I am abusive to myself. I am really abusive to myself at times, and I am just beginning to realise that to a deeper level.
Personalization -- You see yourself as the cause of some negative external event which, in fact, you were not primarily responsible for.
I still do this surrounding my family. Yeah and the shame, the shame is totally overwhelming. I am drowing in my own shame. I am paralysed by my own shame.
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Chiqui
Platinum Member
@Disco Dancing Queen, yes, I agree on keeping the thread on track :) Just want to say yes, little by little, small steps are the right thing to do for me.
I am glad to find someone else saying that meditation It is not good for everybody.
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts about mindfulness, too. My instinc says no to it, too, at last at the moment.
I am on good medical hands, too.
Back to the thread now :)
I am glad to find someone else saying that meditation It is not good for everybody.
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts about mindfulness, too. My instinc says no to it, too, at last at the moment.
I am on good medical hands, too.
Back to the thread now :)
- Post starter
- #848
ms spock
VIP Member
All or nothing thinking -- You see things in black and white categories. Yep
Over-generalization -- You see a single negative event as a never-ending pattern of defeat. Yep
Mental filter -- You pick out a single negative detail and dwell on it so exclusively that your vision of all reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that colors the entire beaker of water. Yep
Disqualifying the positive -- You reject positive experiences by insisting they "don't count" for some reason or other. In this way you can maintain a negative belief that is contradicted by your everyday experiences. Yep
Jumping to conclusions -- You make a negative interpretation even though there are no definite facts that convincingly support your conclusion. (Involves mind-reading and fortune-telling.) Yep
Magnification and minimization -- You exaggerate the importance of things, or you inappropriately shrink things until they appear tiny. Yep
Emotional reasoning -- You assume that your emotions necessarily reflect the way things really are, as in "I feel it, therefore it must be true."
Yep
Should statements -- You try to motivate yourself with "should" and "should not," Yep
Labeling and mislabeling -- This is an extreme form of overgeneralization. Instead of describing your error, you attach a negative label to yourself. Yep
Personalization -- You see yourself as the cause of some negative external event which, in fact, you were not primarily responsible for.
Yep
Over-generalization -- You see a single negative event as a never-ending pattern of defeat. Yep
Mental filter -- You pick out a single negative detail and dwell on it so exclusively that your vision of all reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that colors the entire beaker of water. Yep
Disqualifying the positive -- You reject positive experiences by insisting they "don't count" for some reason or other. In this way you can maintain a negative belief that is contradicted by your everyday experiences. Yep
Jumping to conclusions -- You make a negative interpretation even though there are no definite facts that convincingly support your conclusion. (Involves mind-reading and fortune-telling.) Yep
Magnification and minimization -- You exaggerate the importance of things, or you inappropriately shrink things until they appear tiny. Yep
Emotional reasoning -- You assume that your emotions necessarily reflect the way things really are, as in "I feel it, therefore it must be true."
Yep
Should statements -- You try to motivate yourself with "should" and "should not," Yep
Labeling and mislabeling -- This is an extreme form of overgeneralization. Instead of describing your error, you attach a negative label to yourself. Yep
Personalization -- You see yourself as the cause of some negative external event which, in fact, you were not primarily responsible for.
Yep
Chiqui
Platinum Member
Jumping to conclusions. Everything is going to go wrong and I will misbehave and everybody Will be pointing at me.
Personalization. All goes around me, even the Sun, buah
Personalization. All goes around me, even the Sun, buah
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Just a reminder - please stick to naming the distortion and adding your own content, rather than copy-pasting the definitions each time as well. Thanks.
Chiqui
Platinum Member
Jumping to conclusions -- and getting very disturbed about something It is not true but I can't defeat. Very much interested about the untrue than about the true. The true evidences my own weakness. Oh boy, just take It!!
- Post starter
- #852
ms spock
VIP Member
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