Pity party vs grief

[Freemartin]

Do you feel empathy?
Do other peoples' feelings of sadness make sense to you?
I guess the answer to those questions is yes, you seem like an empathetic person to me.
So, when you think about other people who have had deeply unfair and traumatic experiences, does grief seem like an adequate reaponse? Or total bs?

 

[somerandomguy]

At some stages, I think it's really impossible to tell the difference between grief and a pity party. When I was going through that, my T at the time told me that it was ok to throw myself a pity party. Because the only difference for me was that my "pity party" feelings made me beat myself up for the same reasons that you're beating yourself up.

The point is to try to feel without judgement. I think when you try to feel sad, you're going to judge yourself regardless since feeling that was seems unnatural and wrong. But the more I did it, the more I allowed myself to do it, and over time I got better at not judging myself.

 

[EveHarrington]

I can’t really explain it, but they feel different to me.

When I’m grieving, I cannot control my feelings. When I’m in pity party mode, I can.

Of course it’s probably different for everyone though.

 

[Tinyflame]

Idk, I find it intensely uncomfortable to be 'known' or anyone to know details that could elicit pity- because pity is an ugly emotion to me: not love, not empathy, not- what's the word?- respectable? Useful? So self-pity is- :wtf:.

But, by the same token, no one can escape grief, even one's self grieving for others.

I might be wrong but I believe grief is about loss, and like @Neverthesame said the re-living is not intentional but inevitable with ptsd. So I see no point in feeding either, because the grief never leaves, like the repetitive feeling after the same nightmare over and over.

But just as equally, I see others' battles all as greater than my own; that they deserve the empathy or support I do not. Especially if their concerns are in the present and mine are not. So even struggles, albeit non-intentional, fill me with guilt: eg, struggle with SI, people are struggling to live. Granted I do help people struggling to live, but I wish I could change places with them. Especially if they are of value or valuable/ loved/ needed by others and I am not. 'What' (rather than even who) am I to reveal past or present struggles or losses or experiences to others, or think of them in that way even to myself.

And guilt if they are suffering if I am not, or guilt my sufferings are not worth empathy as others' are (their's are profound, mine are irrelevant).

I suppose I feel expendable so any trial seems unworthy of grief, and any trial survived seems unworthy of empathy, that I caused it myself. Or it doesn't matter.

I also feel like @frieda my heart cannot bear the pain of acknowledging more sorrow. But no, it never feels justified. I feel like I am just deficient, heart-wise. Weak doesn't begin to describe it.

Yikes, -long winded I'm sorry. Idk the answer. I'm sorry if that doesn't make good sense.

 

[deeplyloved]

When my t broaches the subject of grief (usually when I'm crying big alligator tears and expressing my disgust about having them), I often give her a list of people in my life who have real problems and terrible losses. I tell her how they keep going despite their valid reasons to throw in the towel. She asks me why I think I'm not deserving or worthy of grief...

Something that may or may not be helpful is that the stages of grief were actually the stages of preparation for death. They have been erroneously applied to survivors of all kinds of things. What we actually have are tasks of grief (to accept our new reality, to work through the complex emotions and pain of grief, to adjust to our new reality, and to create an enduring connection with what we lost while learning to live again without it). They don't go in any particular order or take a particular length of time. Sometimes we need to revisit certain tasks. Most of all, though, it's not an intellectual pursuit. It's completely experiential and unquantifiable. Emotions stay until we learn what they have to teach us. We can't learn the wisdom without actually feeling them.

Look at me sounding all smart and with it. My therapist would probably snort reading this! My avoidance-coping strategy is to research and read about things instead of feeling my feelings...

 

[Tinyflame]

We can't learn the wisdom without actually feeling them.

Makes sense, because they are too much to feel. I do not cry, or it doesn't stop.

ETA, the word came to me: accountability. How can I have self-pity or grief for that which is my fault? If I get or am sick, well I smoked 30+ years, don't eat, can't tolerate eating because of choosing suicide attempts, don't go to Doctors and have a genetic background where most got diagnosed with cancer or otherwise +/ or died from 6 years old up, or are currently terminal. If it's interpersonal, I didn't/ don't speak up, for others or myself, or chose poorly? Etc. Everyone grieves, everyone suffers.

Today I 'choose' to have to sell out something of myself, because I see no other option. I don't deserve pity because I am not of value, but I am self-repulsed as I have no other option (my fault).

I don't fear death either or see grounds for myself if that were the case for self-pity, because we're all going, just at different times. If anything, if there"s a HP and it's somewhere everyone is wanted, it may one day be a home.

So yes, I can grieve or feel pity or concern on others' behalf; myself what do I expect: my choices -> my consequences.

 

[Freida]

Ok - you all made me feel better that I'm not alone in this struggle!

How is it not a pity party if I'll never "move on"?

This is what they keep trying to get me to see. If I allow myself to grieve then I can move on. But if I don't, I can't. She also told me that I'm expending an immense amount of energy in trying to keep my feelings locked up and if I let them go I wouldn't be as tired. But to let them go I have to feel sorry for myself. And that makes me crazy....ugh!

So, when you think about other people who have had deeply unfair and traumatic experiences, does grief seem like an adequate reaponse? Or total bs?

I have a good friend who was kidnapped as a kid by a serial killer. She lived but was very badly injured. When she tells me her story it makes me sad -- that any child would have to go through that. I don't pity her but I do feel badly for her. This is one of the places where I see how shut down I am-- because when others hear her story they often cry because it was so traumatic. I'm not sure if I have empathy or not....???

And the bigger challenge I'm having is that for 20 years I had to not show feelings because I needed to keep it together to help the 911 callers. I had a variety of calls that made me cry but it always made me feel like a failure because I couldn't just suck it up and move on. I just never learned to process them - it was easier to ignore them. Plus the culture is pretty brutal. Falling apart after a call is .... simply not done. It's a huge sign of weakness.

But the more I did it, the more I allowed myself to do it, and over time I got better at not judging myself.

This is where I need to get! T and I have been working on using my bad calls to understand being sad without judgement but it is a constant struggle.

Look at me sounding all smart and with it. My therapist would probably snort reading this!

oh and you KNOW! I'm gonna be cutting and pasting in the future! LOL what a team!

So yes, I can grieve or feel pity or concern on others' behalf; myself what do I expect: my choices -> my consequences.

This may be the problem. I still blame myself so very much. Every time I think I'm past it ...I realize I'm not. Other people deserve to feel bad because of things that happened TO them. Me? I made bad decisions and now have to face the consequences. Feeling bad is just having a pity party so I can feel sorry for myself.

ughghhghgh!!!!! hamster wheel from hell.

so then....sad vs depression....

If I understand it correctly one is an emotion and the other is a medical condition.
I got diagnosed with depression at the beginning of this whole fun filled adventure because I was all suicidal and such. I'm still on a low dose anti depressant but now Doc and Ts say though I still rate on the scale its more emotional than physical. As in - let yourself be sad and process the memories and you may be able to come off the meds

Anyone else been told that?

 

[KwanYingirl]

I’m trying to send the link to a atara Brach talk that explores that feelings are real but they’re not true. Cognitive distortions. But sucking at technology is what I do so all I can say is check it out.

*Tara Brach

 

[Freida]

@KwanYingirl that is an excellent website! thank you!

 

[KwanYingirl]

Awakening Through Change and Loss is another one I just watched. I am griefstricken over the death of my best friend. I get mixed opinions on grief. Either people embrace it or they accuse me of being too sensitive so stop feeling that way. Neither are helpful, but this video spoke volumes to me.

 

[KwanYingirl]

Also by Tara Brach

 

[shimmerz]

So, how is it productive to focus on the grief?

Not sure if focus on the grief is what it is all about. I think it is more about acknowledging it. Then you get to move on.

When I have a hard time internalizing feelings I try to picture one of my sons telling me that happened to him. Somehow I find words that are based in empathy and love for my image of him, and I try to then bring that into myself. Just as an acknowledgement. I don't cry about it, get really emotional about it. But I do think it is important to acknowledge that if it was shit for someone else then it was shit for me. That that matters.

And insofar as the original question goes, I would say pity parties are about what happened or what others did to you and getting stuck there where grief is a sadness that can be released with time. I don't think it is ever really good to be stuck period. The idea is to move the energy out.