Not sure what to call this - can't label people "good" or "bad"

[Gs172003]

When thinking about my ex and present husbands I've come to realize that I can't label my ex as "bad" but I can't label my husband as" good" either. Does that make any kind of sense? My ex is why I'm here.

 

[FauxLiz]

@Zoogal I don't know if this can help but I don't view people as good or bad I view their actions as good or bad. For all the evil in the world and the evil I have seen in my life personally I try not to label people that way because for as good or bad as people may be most have one or two redeeming qualities. They can be nice to their families or do volunteer work, donate to charity or who knows but that doesn't change the fact their actions are bad. The same can be said for "good" people that cheat on their taxes, steal from work or others their actions are bad but they could be an amazing teacher or doctor etc.

My brother, my uncle, my ex, the other men that raped me they all committed heinous bad acts But if I label them as bad what does that say about people like my kids that come from them does that make them bad too? I can't let myself think like that.

 

[MrMoonlight]

The duality in people is something I'm struggling with myself . My religious upbringing probably adds to my view of good and evil.

 

[Mee]

I truly believe we cannot be wholly good or bad. For example my most simple rapist is also one of the sweetest people I have ever met, adores animals, is kind and of course the victim of abuse themself. I was sad when I found out they had a record for a coomplicated theft and on going stupid other crimes.

Those who hurt us are often people we also love or like. People we have varying degrees of trust and respect for. As well as the transgressions they make they might be the people who provided our food as children, or who told us they loved us. They might have taught us about faith. One of mine was pationate about the homeless.

And here is a crunch: at times in our lives we have hurt people. I am not suggesting ( though it’s possible) people we care for have caused trauma to people, but we will have acted Humanly, with error and in many cases abusers were abused. We could have been them not us. Shrug. I am glad I am not but as I get in touch with my anger a recurring theme for me is the idea of empathy with vigilante behaviour and Batman . It’s the same thing I think :(. Which is an ugly thing to feel: that my anger is channelled in a way my mind tries to kid it’s srlf is justified. Luckily a disabled , overweight, Middle Aged, woman pretty much afraid to leave her room and with strong Katha yoga guiding principles is pretty much confined to working this stuff through rather than acting on it; but I have to acknowledge it’s in me. And that’s terrifying prospect.

It would be so much easier, wouldn’t it, for law enforcement too, if there was some sort of ‘ s/he’s a good’un, s/he’s not’. Unfortunately I think it’s far, far more complicated. Sadly we are the ones working it through not those who put us in this situation who also I think desperately need to do therapy for asafer world :(

 

[Gs172003]

That's what I'm struggling with. How do you wrap your head around bad people doing good things and how do you trust good people that have done not so bad things when you know what people are capable of?

 

[Tinyflame]

I can't see people as good or bad, but rather their actions as harmful or ill. I can't muster anger about it, but am sure it would be deadly-level anger were it someone I love who was the victim, though again I get over that if they themself don't harbour it against (their) perpetrator. I do see some people as good.

I felt badly and ashamed to think badly of someone like that lately, wished everyone of their profile and actions would die off. But now I understand I didn't really feel that, what I felt was trapped and more specifically unable to make them stop. In their specific case I actually feel sorry for them; in others' I feel they are ill/ something has gone off the rails.

I would hope @Zoogal that you see your H as a good man- that he is a good man (for you). Hugs for you. :hug:

 

[somerandomguy]

How do you wrap your head around bad people doing good things and how do you trust good people that have done not so bad things when you know what people are capable of?

A hallmark of trauma thinking is seeing things as either black or white with nothing in between. When I'm tempted to idolize or demonize someone, I try to remember that.

Even though we know the horrors that people are capable of, the people we choose to let into our lives, the people we trust because they have proven to be trustworthy - our partners and friends and therapists - are there exactly because they have shown by their actions that they ARE trustworthy. That, for me, gets them marked as "good" in my book, even though of course everyone has bad days and habits we're not fond of and may have other unhelpful behaviors from time to time.

Likewise, people who have a pattern of being shitty to me? They may have attractive qualities, but I'm not going to spend a lot of time figuring out what those qualities are. I'm not going to bother rounding them up to "good person" just because they occasionally flash good behaviors.

Everyone is capable of being either trustworthy or shitty. Individual people's overall, ongoing behaviors guide the way I sort them.

 

[Mach123]

The duality of everything is what I'm thinking about lately but especially this idea about good and bad. I'll tell you I got a sort of meditation I made up myself (never having studied or read about it really just the book "I am that.") by lying in bed and thinking/realizing "I'm not doing anything wrong right now." I can't tell you what a giant shift in my thinking this caused though I have spent plenty of time since not being able to achieve that state again I'm still aware of it. I saw how much I thought I was bad and how my feelings around that idea were so overwhelmingly negative and painful. Then I started looking out at my feelings about other people and saw the same stuff was going on everywhere in my thoughts and feelings. The only way I ever motivated myself to do anything was with "the lash" of my own hateful feelings about myself and by association, everyone and almost everything else. I still go back and forth. It's maddening! : )

 

[Mee]

A hallmark of trauma thinking is seeing things as either black or white with nothing in between. W...

Grrr. I find that so confusing. My therapist is trying to get me to stop ‘empathetic thought’ to my violators but I am stuck in the grey . I feel black and white about aspects sure ( displayed that this weekend here with my agonising over the cheating thing) but people..... my black and white is more that no one is .... .

Maybe this also plays into survivor guilt? If we get stuck in seeing things black and white how can we have self love? Forgiveness? Ahhh.... hang on.... yeah... yes, actions/ failures are harder to forgive than people for me, including my own? So coming to terms with our OWN duality is maybe a key issue here? Like when people ( cringe) day you have to love your self before you can truly love another? I think that could mean you have to know yourself? Forgive yourself ? Like the time you made that boy in second grade cry or admit that you speed and rectify it admitting its rule breaking and endangering, or what ever ? ( examples totally made up ).

Sigh . Ok I used to be a speed freak in my youth :(. ;)

 

[Gs172003]

Thank you all

 

[Tinyflame]

For one thing @Zoogal it is true we can only do the best we can at any given moment.

Forgiving others is not a bad thing; there's a saying, something like, 'if you set out with a shovel for revenge, dig 2 graves first'. Forgiveness won't harm you, if you feel so inclined. As long as you don't accept blame for others' wrongs not your own.

Remember to communicate with your H, separate him from others (the past), tell each other you love each other (if you do).

You are probably right about the bl-&-wh thing, and forgiving ourselves.

PS, I always liked speed. :) :hug:

 

[somerandomguy]

Maybe this also plays into survivor guilt? If we get stuck in seeing things black and white how can we have self love?

I think this is a major issue for people with trauma and is a big reason many of us blame ourselves first and foremost.