General What are they thinking?

[lostforgottensoul]

Do you guys leave physically, like a different location or "check out" like mentally or in another room?

All of the above. Guys I push them away hard to the point of seriously hurting them. Other people it depends. If I know shit is about to hit the fan hard I will try my best to be alone. Leave. Get a hotel (done it). Get away. When my dad lived with me (9 yrs and was basically a trigger the whole time. Him just being there. Because he was part of my trauma) I would isolate to my room and he only saw me when I came out to go to the bathroom, get food, go to and from work, take my dog out. Thats it. No words or not many. He got so worried once he literally camped out at my door. To his defense that was back when I was huffing keyboard duster and he was hella worried about me.

But I've done it all. Normally I would put on ear buds and be in my own world on my phone for hours. He could have ran naked in front of me and I wouldn't of noticed...much. I check out. Not home. Gone. That's how I handled most of it day to day. Some days I could talk and engage more then others.

He will literally try to "break up" with me every time, but will talk to me basically everyday and occasionally make plans until he's ready to come back around.

Sounds like he could be testing you. I've done that too. Lets see what they can really handle or will they really leave? Sounds like you need to lay a boundry. I agree. You shouldnt be treated like crap and blamed for everything nor should you ride the roller coaster of break ups. I would lay a boundry that if he needs space or needs to isolate and get away all he needs to do is tell you and you will give him that. But if he says he wants to break up then you will take him at his word on that. Say what you mean and mean what you say. The only consequence for that, that I can think of is actually leaving though. But maybe you should. For a while at least. Lay the boundry and give him enough time to adjust and then start it. Also, you are not the boucing board of feelings. You aren't to blame for everything.

I think some boundries really need to be laid. About how he treats you and so forth. You deserve to be treated with respect. Just because you are in a PTSD relationship doesn't change that fact. And the way to maintain respect are well laid and adhered to boundries. Boundries help me too. They are like a rope in a dark room for me to hold and use to guide me. Bumping up against them helps to guide me as well. So they aren't just helping the one that laid the boundry.

 

[Freida]

yep - bail both at home and away. Hubby is the one who used the term "checked out". he says I'm like a robot. I can function and interact but its like the lights are off and no one is home. I used to bail/relocation wise on a pretty big scale. As in, (before hubby) got on a train, got off in another state, hung out for a year, bought a car, came home on a whim. Ran away once to a spa and told hubby I didn't know if I was coming back. Had to return when I ran out of money. Told hubby we were moving because I didn't like a bush in the yard at our rental. He came home from work one day and found a for sale sign in our yard because I was bored.... and so on

You deserve to be treated with respect.

Respect and boundaries. Hubby finally told me that he was fine if I ran away but I had to check in with him every day so he knew I was safe. Over time it's gotten easier to plan my running away --like I do during my anniversaries. last minute runs -- I tell him I'm going at least a couple hours before I go.. If I'm isolating at home he usually figures it out before I do. He says I have 'tells" that show I'm shutting down. That's when he knows not to try to reason with me -- because it's not possible.

We have done couples counseling a couple times over the years, mostly to learn how to fight more effectively. Not communicate. Fight. One T told us that no one is taught how to do that so they don't know how to set ground rules. It actually works because you set out a plan for the next time you get mad, then follow that plan. Also, as I've done counseling my panic is lessening, which lessens the need to run. I think I will always do it - but if I can control it I'll count it as a win

PTSD doesn't mean we get to be assholes. It means we may not know we are being assholes. I love how you are handling his divorce threats -- that would work with me. hmmm hubby may have used something similar now that I think about it. Maybe while he is gone this time you can think about what your breaking point is? Where do YOU draw the line? What is divorce worthy treatment in your book? Then book a couples counseling and have the T go over it with both of you once he is done panicking....???

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Maybe while he is gone this time you can think about what your breaking point is? Where do YOU draw the line? What is divorce worthy treatment in your book? Then book a couples counseling and have the T go over it with both of you once he is done panicking....???

^^^^ Yes! There has to be boundries and there has to be that line. That breaking point line. If not, what's stopping us from literally abusing you or at least treating you like yesterday's news and shitting all over you? We will not know we are doing it but we will surely do it without a guide. We need a guide.

 

[NaeNae75]

There is so much great information here.I going to get back to you guys tomorrow. I can't even keep my eyes open.

 

[NaeNae75]

. Lay the boundry and give him enough time to adjust and then start it. Also, you are not the boucing board of feelings.

I agree with you. We've done some good boundary work, but we need to get to the next level. I believe he does push me away sometimes both because he wants to see if I'll still stay and sometimes because I'm the only thing he trusts to let go of when his stress cup overflows. We just need to work on him doing it in a way that doesn't hurt me. The isolation doesn't hurt, the blaming and such does. I think he really feels incapable of leaving without creating a fight or "justifiable" reason to take his space. His ex wouldn't even let him go to the store "unsupervised" so sometimes I think he puts her face on me. I'm not like that at all. I'm super independent and am fine with him needing space. I wasn't even a mess when he was deployed.
Well, the only time was when he said he had SI, and I couldn't get in touch with him for a couple of days....that was really rough. But when he calmed down he skyped me right away. Once he comes down from this episode, we'll have to do some real work on the boundaries for this issue in particular.

Where do YOU draw the line? What is divorce worthy treatment in your book? Then book a couples counseling and have the T go over it with both of you once he is done panicking....???

I think where I draw the line is with physical abuse or if there was any long term emotional abuse. That would be it for me. The reason I said "long term" is because I know there are people that consider the flare ups and blaming me a form of abuse. I don't know that I consider it that...I think in his mind he is acting in self defense because of his cognitive distortions. I don't know for sure, but it seems that way. I know that when he's not symptomatic, he doesn't have a mean bone in his body. He has nothing but lovely things to share with me. Those are the times I fight for. He's very generally quite supportive and loving. He makes me feel secure deep in my soul. This is why I love him and deal with the flare ups.
I'm lucky that I'm independent and can keep myself both occupied and supported. He's basically a really great bonus. It makes it possible for me to continue to carry on during his dark times. I know as far as my own PTSD goes, I very faithfully work at it, my EMDR has been really successful for me, and I see my T and attend my support group religiously. It keeps me in check mentally. (at least for the most part).
I also think that being here helps me tremendously, because it's one of the only places in the world I feel heard and supported. I don't know where I would be without you guys...I identify as both sufferer and supporter, so this place just works for me...people here get it. You guys see the difference between someone that's abusive and someone that just has challenges to dealing with their amygdalas! This page is a blessing to me. The interaction brings me more insight than someone that has just "read about it".

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I think where I draw the line is with physical abuse or if there was any long term emotional abuse. That would be it for me. The reason I said "long term" is because I know there are people that consider the flare ups and blaming me a form of abuse. I don't know that I consider it that...I think in his mind he is acting in self defense because of his cognitive distortions. I don't know for sure, but it seems that way.

I get where you are coming from. But, I would add, I'm someone that would abuse those around me without meaning to. Without being able to control it. And without really being able to see it until after it happened. I would not consider myself abusive in general or an abuser. I very much care about others. Usually way more then I care about myself. But, my actions were abusive. Unintentional or not, my actions were abusive. At my worst I would explode with zero warning and zero visable (from the outside) reason. They were blind red rage explostions. All I saw was red. I had no idea what I was doing or saying until it was over. I have never hit anyone or laid a hand on anyone but my step mom would fight with me and instigate it which made it a millon times worse. She would purposely do things that she knew would trigger me just to show my dad how horrible I was. All that said to say I came close to hitting her a few times. If it weren't for my dad getting between us and forcing her to shut up I think I would have. That's a scary place.

But none of my step mom's actions justify mine. Nothing justifies abusing another. Even if it's unintentional and you cannot control it, it's inexcusable.

My therapist taught me how to feel the anxiety before it exploded. It gave me a tad warning. Not much. Sometimes only 30 secons or so. But enough to say "please stop, I'm about to explode" or to get myself in another room or outside. That was the very first thing he did with me. And then he saw my dad with me and taught him how to lay some boundries. And i laid my own. It didn't stop the exploding relationship we had in this house (my dad and step mom lived with me for 8 yrs but have since moved) but it did reduce it a lot.

I say all of that to say i get where he's at. But, nothing excuses yelling or otherwise exploding emotions on another. I would tighten up that line just a bit. Have a boundry where he has a cooling off area. You don't enter that area. He comes out when he feels he is under control. You don't fight with him when he's like that. There's boundries on both sides really but I would say that even a small while of him emotionally abusing you is too much. There has to be some boundries there where he isn't using you as a target for his emotions even for a short while. I get that's likely why he's isolating but there are things you both can do to help cool off the home a bit. Allow you to not be his emotional sounding board. And it will also help him to not feel the need to isolate as much as he isn't going off on you every second and has that cooling off space.

With those boundries in place, understood and adhered to on both sides, I would say even a short while of using you for emotional target practice (intentional or not), yelling or otherwise emotionally abusing you (intentional or not), and most certinaly if he lays a hand on you (intentional or not) should be too much.

That's just my opinion coming from someone that did and does that.

 

[NaeNae75]

I get where you are coming from. But, I would add, I'm someone that would abuse those around...

This makes perfect sense to me. I think sometimes I "let it go" because I honestly don't know how much I've contributed to it. In the past before my therapy, I would say my reactions were somewhat in line with what you're describing yours were. So although I think I'm much better, I know I'm not perfect, more of a work in progress.
I really like your suggestions here. They are very well thought out and applicable. They should be fairly easy to put into play once we can start couples therapy again.
Part of the problem is our old therapist left practice abruptly last year, and we never replaced her. He still has his T and I found a new one for myself, but I want to find a different person altogether for these issues. I've found 2 in our area that specialize in PTSD and relationships. Once he's in a more receptive place, I'll get everything set up for us. I'm fairly confident that it will help. Our old T didn't offer much other than a third party to "oversee" what was going on. She didn't do much in the way of facilitating, though.
He seems willing to do things and set up outings, but he isn't comfortable "talking" yet...like heavy stuff. I don't know that I'm ready either. I'm okay with just doing easy things together and giving him time to heal before we do any heavy lifting. Sort of like work restrictions for his emotions... If I push anything, he'll lose it and stay away longer. We've been through a lot, and other than this, we work hard at having a healthy relationship for ourselves and for our kids.
With these extra little tweaks, we should be able to get even healthier!

 

[HearMeOut]

@Freida suprisingly I feel the same way as you but on the opisite platfor...

When in that mode everything effects me worse than it would if I was having a "normal" day and I cant stand it, somewhere in the middle of the conversation ill just find myself snapped out of the mode and back with positive self. I dont know want it is, some type of trigger. I need to learn more about all of this.

 

[Freida]

Yes! If you can find the trigger that sends you back to happy that would be wonderful!

 

[jandk5721]

I want to applaud all of the sufferers here for explaining how an isolate and shut out happens for them. M...

Omg i am going through this same exact thing and feeling your same thoughts! My husband has been gone a month now and havent heard a word. We didnt have an argument and had just planned a cruise. He has however had divorce papers sent to me from another state. He wont take my calls or texts. Im completely clueless what he is thinking and what i did to set him off. I feel so helpless and sad and angry and bitter that this man i love so much could hurt me this way and not bat an eye.

 

[Changing4Best]

Omg i am going through this same exact thing and feeling your same thoughts! My husband has been gone a month now an...

So sorry this has happened to you! HUGS (if you accept them).

 

[jandk5721]

So sorry this has happened to you! HUGS (if you accept them).

Thank you. I do accept.