Is it normal for a sufferer to feel paranoia and selfdoubt about civvies having a low opinion about you?

[Never_falter2]

Yes, sure. He is doing CBT and he is also on medication.

 

[hithere]

Are you sure? Because he is really afraid to be fired because he feels unable to lead civvies in the workplace and he actually feels on the verge of nervous breakdown and suicide because of it.

He rarely talks about this bad feelings but he often talks about his feeling like he doesn‘t belong there (civvy street) anymore no matter how hard he tries and wants me to tell him that this is not true and civvy street is just the place for him. He believes he will never be able to lead civvies. It is bad for him and I am worried.
When he is feeling like this he sometimes me for comfort so to speak like asking me if the things he perceive are the reality. I tell him: nope, not at all and then he is happy for a while.

Yes I know this for a fact. Unfortunately I know it ALL TOO WELL. And, my hubby has this very condition that you describe here. Almost exactly. My hubby does't have ptsd. Yes, OCD drives people to suicide. Also, you mentioned germs and that's a common one for OCD. But understand OCD latches on to a myriad of things, that's why people are misdiagnosed or don't seek treaatment and why non experts miss the whole OCD. The thing is weird. OCD is a disease of disturbing "intrusive thoughts" and a disease of "uncertainty" The fear and anxiety can be absolutely debilitating. It can be confusing when you have PTSD and OCD, since both are diseases of "intrusive thoughts" and both are concerned with "fear". You can have both at the same time Hello! Here I am. My OCD was about making a mistake and hurting someone, but maybe I didn't really make a mistake maybe I really had selfish motives. I had selfish motives oh no it's a catastrophe I may have hurt someone oh no oh no (I wanted to kill myself) No I didn't have selfish motives. Did I ? Didn't I? torment. The strange thing about OCD is the very thing that is important to you is the very thing that torments you. It's important to me that I not hurt anyone, so I had ocd centered around that and seeking assurance and seeking assurance, are you sure I didn't make a mistake, are you sure I'm ok, are you sure they don't hate me, I think they hate me, I think they are going to sue me, on and on and on.

For OCD it is extremely important to use an EXPERT with OCD. People say they treat it but it really must be an EXPERT. you can find one at the international OCD foundation. OCD causes nervous breakdowns, some people can't work. Concerning PTSD symptoms, for me tackling the OCD intrusive thoughts and doing OCD treatment of "exposure and response" first really helped me to THEN do the PTSD "exposure" portion of the PTSD treatment.

 

[Never_falter2]

So actually my Vet has a fear of making a mistake and that people get hurt or even have to die because of his mistake... but you have been afraid that it was not a mistake, but did it on purpose, right?

My dh is afraid that he makes a mistake and people get hurt... but the thing is... he is a German soldier... and in the German military they emphasize this kind of thing. During their training they learn that if they make a mistake people are gonna die and then I guess you really do not have to have OCD to embrace the idea.

My Vet is actually a lot afraid of people dying, from terrorist attacks, because of pesticides that give you cancer, because criminals break into their home and kill them, because if germs, because they did not buckle up in their car or not wear their helmets when driving a bicycle, because they fall of horses, because they wear the wrong clothes and get pneumonia or they have a tiny little wound and get sepsis or tetanus. A buddy of his had sepsis but he is more afraid of tetanus.
He is not afraid that he will die, but he is afraid that his loved ones will die and he does not care about his own health at all but is so protective if his loved ones.

I have Rostov now. We haven‘t found a cure for that yet... but actually we have been told it is hypervigilance. Would you like to have a look? General - How can one tell if a symptom is hypervigilance versus ocd?

 

[hithere]

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When he is feeling like this he sometimes me for comfort so to speak like asking me if the things he perceive are the reality. I tell him: nope, not at all and then he is happy for a while.

This behavior, seeking assurance or comfort from my hubby, makes me happy, calms me down. FOR AWHILE. This hallmark "seeking assurance" behavior. And--the result of this is it actually keeps the instrusive thoughts coming back harder and stronger. (It's kind of like an addiction) So you have to learn to cut off the compulsion (asking for assurance) and sit with the absolutely horrible feelings that OCD is causing.... but it is like fear of heights. When you are afraid of heights you feel dizzy and you keep your eyes closed. But if you open them and feel the dizzyness for about 10 to 15 minutes all of sudden your brain stops that and you don't feel the fear anymore. You are solid. Sitting in the tormenting feelings and learning some skills, your brain learns the intrusive thoughts aren't true and calms down. Compulsions keep the bad thoughts away temporarily. Compulsions can be all in the head and not visible too. that's Pure O.

 

[hithere]

So actually my Vet has a fear of making a mistake and that people get hurt or even have to die because of his mistake... but you have been afraid that it was not a mistake, but did it on purpose, right?

My dh is afraid that he makes a mistake and people get hurt... but the thing is... he is a German soldier... and in the German military they emphasize this kind of thing. During their training they learn that if they make a mistake people are gonna die and then I guess you really do not have to have OCD to embrace the idea.

My Vet is actually a lot afraid of people dying, from terrorist attacks, because of pesticides that give you cancer, because criminals break into their home and kill them, because if germs, because they did not buckle up in their car or not wear their helmets when driving a bicycle, because they fall of horses, because they wear the wrong clothes and get pneumonia or they have a tiny little wound and get sepsis or tetanus. A buddy of his had sepsis but he is more afraid of tetanus.
He is not afraid that he will die, but he is afraid that his loved ones will die and he does not care about his own health at all but is so protective if his loved ones.

I have to stop now, but I write in this in a lot of my threads. We haven‘t found a cure for that yet... but actually we have been told it is hypervigilance.

Yes, hypervigilance is part of OCD also.

 

[Never_falter2]

But of course sometimes they are true. This guy really had sepsis because of germs entering through a wound and I can understand why he is stressed by the idea of germs and asking me about things being really clean.
He has been diagnosed with ptsd and I do think in case of ptsd hypervigilance it is okay to give comfort, isn‘t it?

 

[Never_falter2]

Sorry, here is the correct link, hope it works now: General - How can one tell if a symptom is hypervigilance versus ocd?

 

[Freida]

? That’s good to hear because all the other vets seem to be so self confident... like they do not care about what others think at all... but than he comes across self confident too as long as he does not share the thoughts in his head... and who knows what those other vets are talking about with their wifes.

I'm one of the most self confident appearing people you will ever meet.... Appearing. Until I have to ask for help. Then I am SURE the world is out to get me, thinks I'm a loser, talking behind my back....blah blah blah

Because he is really afraid to be fired because he feels unable to lead civvies in the workplace and he actually feels on the verge of

If you can't lead your people will die and it will be your fault - not the fault of the idiot civilians who can't follow orders. So your bosses are always watching - fail and you are out. Emergency services has a lot of this also

It makes sense there ....But not in most civilian jobs. He's gonna need some therapy to get past it

 

[Freida]

During their training they learn that if they make a mistake people are gonna die a

I'm pretty sure all military teaches this -- -because it is true and you have to be ready for it. We teach the same thing in 911 -- you screw up people die. You hear it over and over and over.... it's not OCD. It's conditioning -- and it gets embedded into your subconscious. Which is exactly the point of doing it.

When you are living in a life and death world, and then you are suddenly put into a world where the worst thing that can happen is you mislabel a product (yep - did that) and people freak about it, it makes your head explode. The most common thing I hear is that civilians are stupid. I don't mean that in a demeaning way --- but it's because they don't know how fast things can go downhill and they aren't ready to react. So you, the only person with a clue on how to save them, are suddenly responsible for them --even if you aren't. It's been drilled into your head so many times that you can't just shut it off. And it's too big of a job for one person to do -- so someone is going to die. And it's going to be your fault.

and round and round it goes...

 

[LuckiLee]

It can be so much more than that too. ^^^ When J is symptomatic?? He's hypervigalant about everything. That conditioning? Do it right or people are gonna die. It's broken. People are gonna die. Can't find xyz? People are gonna die. Is damn near impossible to break. Five years and counting of therapy and J reacts as if people are gonna die because "we turned down the wrong road", "I can't find my coffee cup", "why did you move my xyz"... His body reacts. Rapid heart beat, sweating, fear, and his fight kicks in (combat veteran = no flight response).

J says he can be ocd.But I think it's his training. Everything in it's place. I'm looking around the room right now and everything laying around is mine. Lol. It probably drives him batty sometimes! After all I am just a civvy. I'm rambling now. Gonna go start dinner..... XO

 

[grimalkin]

My sufferer has the hypervigilance and paranoia as well - and it's definitely a result of the anxiety and PTSD. He uses a cane now, and got a handicap placard for his car, and is convinced people are looking at him and judging him for taking a handicap space. And judging him for needing a cane. (yes, at the same time - "Needs a cane, pathetic! Using a handicap space, what a faker!") He's convinced everyone in the world looks at him and sees a big, scary, ugly, threatening, deaf, faking-but-somehow-needs-a-cane, stupid-looking ogre, and nothing I say can convince him that, no, chances are good the rest of the world just sees a "guy," if they see him at all.

 

[Never_falter2]

@LuckiLee and @Freida
I know it can be horrible for my Vet if certain things are not as he expects, for example if something is not in the place he expects... there is one special incident I remember when we were going by car and we live in a rural area where they typically switch out the traffic lights when it is late at night, because there is rarely any traffic... and that is what vet expected... but one was not switched out. There was this one traffic light that still was switched on and it was red (not sure if you know that: if German traffic lights are red it means: do not pass, how about American ones?)... this however was so bad for vet. He became sooo stressed and asked a friend sitting in the car to drive later and was just really, really stressed. (He feared some robbers might have turned on the traffic light in order to make cars stop... but how should they actually do this unless the work for the building commission or whoever is responsible for traffic lights... he thought his fear was pretty idiotic but could not switch it off).

Actually my guy sort of believes that people are gonna die if he screws up in his job... because of things that really cannot kill them but he believes that they‘ll loose their jobs because of him and then they will commit suicide. I told him: You know, that this is a crazy idea, don‘t you? But I am not sure if he is convinced.
And then the germs. Sometimes vet becomes really sure that certain things might be contaminated... or that he might be contaminated... like full of deadly germs. “Really sue that might“ sounds silly, doesn‘t it, but he is not sure that it is the case, he is sure that it cannot be ruled out and tries to rule it out by cleaning, disinfecting and so on... and by asking others that it is okay, that he just has crazy ideas.

He is pretty scared of germs, because they cannot be seen yet are so dangerous.

Well... and I do not know what helps. What helps your vets if they have those “everybody is gonna die“ ideas? What helps you @Freida when you have those ideas?

@hithere You say that ocd is treated differently than ptsd. What is actually the difference? We thought he might have ptsd but then we thought it does not matter because CBT treatment of OCD and CBT treatment of ptsd are the same... like working on the symptoms like hypervigilance.