Is it normal for a sufferer to feel paranoia and selfdoubt about civvies having a low opinion about you?

[Never_falter2]

@grimalkin: Not sure if this is helpful, but I am sue I would just see a guy if I saw him. I do not see “people who need a cane“, just people. I mean of course I do notice a person needs a cane (and I had this thread about how to act towards the disabled) but I do not see him as another person, know what I mean? I do know people who need one and cannot say I see them any different... only thing is that I fear to offend them when I ask them if they need help... brother in law has a mild walking disability, my husband wanted to help him (at first when he was new to that), bil told him to take his ugly, fat dick beaters of his stuff or he‘ll hit them ugly dick beaters so badly that they will be good for nothing after that (sounds far more vulgar in German)... did this several times... so I guess he does not want any help... but apart from that I just see him as a guy (and a PITA and a potty mouth but that‘s another story... but I do not see him as “that poor disabled guy“) and I do not see Vet as “that deaf guy“.
When I do not know a person well I notice their disability more but still do see them as people.
I really do think what your vet says makes no sense because how could he at the same time be faking and need a cane? Have you discussed the topic with him?

 

[hithere]

@LuckiLee and @Freida
I know it can be horrible for my Vet if certain things are not as he expects, for example if something is not in the place he expects... there is one special incident I remember when we were going by car and we live in a rural area where they typically switch out the traffic lights when it is late at night, because there is rarely any traffic... and that is what vet expected... but one was not switched out. There was this one traffic light that still was switched on and it was red (not sure if you know that: if German traffic lights are red it means: do not pass, how about American ones?)... this however was so bad for vet. He became sooo stressed and asked a friend sitting in the car to drive later and was just really, really stressed. (He feared some robbers might have turned on the traffic light in order to make cars stop... but how should they actually do this unless the work for the building commission or whoever is responsible for traffic lights... he thought his fear was pretty idiotic but could not switch it off).

Actually my guy sort of believes that people are gonna die if he screws up in his job... because of things that really cannot kill them but he believes that they‘ll loose their jobs because of him and then they will commit suicide. I told him: You know, that this is a crazy idea, don‘t you? But I am not sure if he is convinced.
And then the germs. Sometimes vet becomes really sure that certain things might be contaminated... or that he might be contaminated... like full of deadly germs. “Really sue that might“ sounds silly, doesn‘t it, but he is not sure that it is the case, he is sure that it cannot be ruled out and tries to rule it out by cleaning, disinfecting and so on... and by asking others that it is okay, that he just has crazy ideas.

He is pretty scared of germs, because they cannot be seen yet are so dangerous.

Well... and I do not know what helps. What helps your vets if they have those “everybody is gonna die“ ideas? What helps you @Freida when you have those ideas?

@hithere You say that ocd is treated differently than ptsd. What is actually the difference? We thought he might have ptsd but then we thought it does not matter because CBT treatment of OCD and CBT treatment of ptsd are the same... like working on the symptoms like hypervigilance.

I thouht I said it's treated similarly?

 

[Never_falter2]

Sorry, then I might have gotten you wrong. I thought you said you first did OCD treatment and then ptsd treatment which sounded as if it was different.

 

[LuckiLee]

What is your hubby diagnosed with @Never_falter?

 

[Never_falter2]

He has been diagnosed with PTSD (or I wouldn‘t be here) but both of us sometimes doubted the diagnosis, because he is actually not angry or violent... he does not have any real flashbacks (but only emotional flashbacks of at all... like feeling very stressed, see above)... he does not have unexplainable loss of memory...
Others have told us they think he might have OCD and not ptsd including a person on a internet board who claimed to be a psychiatrist and psychotherapist and a person on a military board who claimed to be a medical doctor (well, of course you never know if they really do have that qualification). I think it is really unusual he is so afraid of germs but then he has a reason...

 

[Never_falter2]

What is more important than diagnosis: what helpful things to do when he feels like this.

 

[hithere]

Sorry, then I might have gotten you wrong. I thought you said you first did OCD treatment and then ptsd treatment which sounded as if it was different.

oh, yes, that's true. I did. The OCD treatment is maybe different in that it's specifically the behavior, the fear/anxiety and then compulsion that is addresesd and the thought processes and behaviors are broken down into components. A variety of exercises was used. I was glad I did that first before I did CPT for PTSD. there are good workbooks used for OCD. But as I said I would not have been able to even "identify" what needed broken down into components and how to break them down without the OCD expert. So much of the PTSD in my opinion for me "operates" and "functions" in such similar ways.

 

[Freida]

(He feared some robbers might have turned on the traffic light in order to make cars stop... but how should they actually do this unless the work for the building commission or whoever is responsible for traffic lights... he thought his fear was pretty idiotic but could not switch it off).

uhmm....this ^^ makes perfect sense to me...... I would probably have thought the same thing. And yep, known it was idiotic

What helps your vets if they have those “everybody is gonna die“ ideas?

welllll....bout that. I don't think I will ever lose that. It's too ingrained into my system I worked with my guru on it and his answer blew me away. He said when I feel that way I need to do an actual Threat Assessment.
As in - Assess the level of danger, then prioritize my response to meet that level.
So = Red light unexpectedly red?
Ok, assessment -- either stuck light or bad guys
Most dangerous option - bad guys
Response - 360 check of area to identify bad guys and keep moving- running light if necessary to remove self and famliy from situation
Least dangerous option - stuck light
Response 360 check of area to identify other cars I might run into and keep moving- running light if necessary to remove self and family from situation
Either way I have the same response -- it's just for different reasons

At first it was tough because I felt like I was giving in to my paranoia. But as he pointed out...I'm doing it anyway. I may as well be purposeful in how I'm doing it.
Ass backwards logic but it works.

 

[EveHarrington]

both of us sometimes doubted the diagnosis, because he is actually not angry or violent...

Please educate yourself about ptsd and stop buying into the stereotype that everyone with ptsd is angry and/or violent. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Are you familiar with ptsd diagnostic standards? I urge you to make yourself familiar with diagnostic symptoms.

 

[shimmerz]

This guy really had sepsis because of germs entering through a wound and I can understand why he is stressed by the idea of germs and asking me about things being really clean.

I think the problem in this way of thinking is that part of it is true. Yes, there are germs and toxins out there that can get us sick. We all know that. Some of us get sick. But the idea is to keep living life with the knowledge that if we are affected by something like sepsis or whatever, that we will get medical aid and it will be repaired. The rumination over a fear is exhausting and can seriously wipe me out for days if I don't get a grip on it. The key for me was understanding that these thoughts, although they are based in reality, do not deserve the amount of time (or pain) he is putting into them.

is
convinced people are looking at him and judging him for taking a handicap space. And judging him for needing a cane.

I am going to guess that this is a good case of projection. He is projecting onto others his thoughts of himself. So in my experience - this won't go away until he changes his own self perception.

 

[Sweetpea76]

both of us sometimes doubted the diagnosis, because he is actually not angry or violent.

To get a diagnosis of PTSD, someone has to check the boxes on a list of diagnostic criteria. There are criteria sections A through H. He wouldn't have to have every single symptom listed in those sections, just SOME from each section. Everybody experiences PTSD differently. Everybody's trauma history is going to be different. My vet and your vet may have combat PTSD, but they're not going to have all the same symptoms and react the same way in all situations.

Criterion E (two required): Trauma-related arousal and reactivity that began or worsened after the trauma, in the following way(s):

Irritability or aggression
Risky or destructive behavior
Hypervigilance
Heightened startle reaction
Difficulty concentrating
Difficulty sleeping

He doesn't have to have anger or violence to fulfill the diagnostic for Crit. E... he just has to have two of the symptoms listed above ^^^. So for instance, my vet doesn't indulge in risky or destructive behavior. He does have other symptoms on the list though. All he needs is two of them to meet this criteria.

You'll also notice violence isn't listed as a reactivity symptom. That's because PTSD doesn't cause violence. That's just a really misinformed stereotype. For instance, vets with combat PTSD are statistically no more likely to engage in domestic violence than other vets. Pop culture likes to portray combat vets with PTSD as scary and unstable... it's just not true. It's like the supporters who come on here and try to use PTSD as an excuse for their partner's violent behavior... what do we always tell them? "It's not the PTSD, if he's beating you, it's because he is abusive."

he does not have any real flashbacks (but only emotional flashbacks of at all... like feeling very stressed, see above)...

Criterion B (one required): The traumatic event is persistently re-experienced, in the following way(s):

• Unwanted upsetting memories
• Nightmares
• Flashbacks
• Emotional distress after exposure to traumatic reminders
• Physical reactivity after exposure to traumatic reminders

There are lots of ways to have a "flashback"... they don't have to always be a full dissociation. Also, he could fulfill Crit. B just by having intrusive memories or nightmares.

he does not have unexplainable loss of memory...

Criterion D (two required): Negative thoughts or feelings that began or worsened after the trauma, in the following way(s):

• Inability to recall key features of the trauma
• Overly negative thoughts and assumptions about oneself or the world
• Exaggerated blame of self or others for causing the trauma
• Negative affect
• Decreased interest in activities
• Feeling isolated
• Difficulty experiencing positive affect

Unexplained memory loss isn't part of the diagnostic criteria. He would just need two of these symtpoms^^^.

PTSD and DSM-5 - PTSD: National Center for PTSD

 

[Never_falter2]

Okay... long story... sorry but my answer will a) be to long to read but b) be to short to explain everything because it is complicated.
So my vet is seeing a therapist, who specializes on ptsd and he already had the diagnosis before. If I understand it correctly this therapist does not have the qualification to diagnose somebody or does not diagnose people (but I might have gotten that wrong).
But she looked with vet at this diagnostic criteria for ptsd you just mentioned and then vet felt more comfortable with the diagnosis, but then he had doubts and she did it again, but told him it was the last time she would discuss it with him because it wasn‘t good for him to keep discussing it... and this therapist is a bit bossy, says she makes the rules not vet.
So vet sometimes he feels comfortable with the diagnosis and sometimes he does not and sometimes he does think he is being a disgrace (Schande in German) to the military and to those who saw more action and really have ptsd... so he told me he sort of feels like he does not have ptsd but is just crazy and sort of got mislabeled and now must correct this in order not to be a faker.
I have looked at that criteria before and yes, he fits the description of that criteria... but then I wonder a) why he is unsure if he has ptsd, b) why so many people keep telling me vet has OCD not ptsd and c) how to tell ptsd symptoms from OCD symptoms cause they overlap.

Could we talk about an example? Vet thinking “OMG. Everything is full of germs“ or “OMG. Everybody is gonna die (if I am not extremely watchful)“ and I told you how he wakes up at night and has to check everything is alright. That is a negative idea about the world... isn‘t it? But how can one know if this is a ptsd negative idea about the world or an OCD negative idea about the world?