Service/Assistance or Emotional Support Animal Question

[Recovery4Me]

I thought I had all my ducks in a row so to speak after several conversations with the Ca. Licensing Department. I procured the mental health and physical documentation, puppy comes this weekend, apartment manager has paperwork for the building approval and I dialed the Paratransit Department to take me for the licensing.

However, when I called to understand the estimated time for the processing during Service Animal Licensing (for pick-up) I reached yet another licensing employee on the phone that disagreed with the previous list her coworkers had requested. There did appear to be some personal judgement on her part concerning “those whom were not really disabled”. Later after she had some conversation with the Operations Manager... I was again allowed to submit different paperwork on a later date with contingent approval with an affidavit.

So... I thought I ask- does anybody have a licensed animal for PTSD and what does your State or Country consider these animals- service, assistance or emotional support? Thanks for any advice in advance.

 

[Sideways]

Hopefully someone closer to home can give more insight.

Here in Australia, ‘Emotional Support Animal’ is really just a fancy label that people give to their pets. It doesn’t actually carry any meaningful significance.

We have ‘Assistance Dogs’ rather than service dogs. Most states have a set public access test that the dog has to pass to show that they know how to behave in public, and at a federal level, they simply have to have passed a test by a qualified organisation to show they know how to behave in public (and it’s quite a high standard).

Beyond that? There are no ‘disability specific’ hoops that you have to jump through. If you turn up somewhere in a wheelchair? You don’t have to justify to anyone the specific reason you need a wheelchair (ain’t none of their business). Same goes if you turn up with a registered assistance dog. It’s enough that the organisation providing you and your dog with certification has made sure the dog helps you. Nice:)

 

[Freida]

Under the ADA there is no licensing or registration requirements for service dogs so I'm a bit confused. My city offers no cost dog licenses from animal control for service dogs but no paperwork is required. So if you are being told you have to license him as a service dog they are incorrect. A service dog is assumed to be medical equipment...so they can't require anything they wouldn't require a wheelchair user to provide. The ADA is federal law so state law can't trump it.

This is a good explanation. Dead Link Removed

Service dogs do specific tasks for their handlers. ESA provide emotional support only. Neither have to be registered so avoid those scam sites offering to certify and register your dog

Emotional support animals are not service dogs and they can't go where service dogs can. They only get special treatment for housing and airplanes. if you go to the store, the movies, a restaurant, the ESA stays home.

 

[Recovery4Me]

@Sideways I seriously appreciate your time offering clarity within terminology. My mind was clouding from the stress of the new development. It is always an relief to receive information from another member in the know.
I have a medical script for the dog.

@Freida I bookmarked the valuable link and cannot thank you enough.
You are right- the license is free in my city too for a service or assist dog. I am trying to obtain the license from a brick and mortar County Animal Service. It is suppose to be government ran, so I was very confused over those three different answers.

The third employee also said ( like yourself) they couldn’t read what the first two employees requested insofar as the letter of diagnosis. Then she added that I have to wait for the dog to reach four months of age.

I was told over the phone, however, each time, that an affidavit needed to be signed with respect to my PTSD and other disabilities at that facility. The dog’s papers for proof of age, the rabies certificate and my ID were also requested. Perhaps after reading your link, the affidavit might be to prevent fraud? IDK

What I also don’t understand is when the third employee said I didn’t need to bring the dog. I am unclear as to how I can show the training for hearing assistance without the dog present. Did you show your animal’s training Freida?

Thank you everyone for the support. I need to do this right as my building manager is expecting a license. ?

 

[Freida]

Ya....they are idiots lol.

If you are trying to get a just an animal control licence ...the same one that everyone has to get if they have a dog that costs like $30 a year AND they offer free ones for service dogs then they can only ask you to verbally verify that he's a service dog. Nothing more

And that applies EVERYWHERE. People can ask
Is that a service dog.....yes/no
What service does he provide? I say alert dog ( because he alerts me to when I need meds)

That's it
Nothing else. No papers no proof, nada

Much of the public doesn't understand how it works so I spend a lot of time educating people and they are usually pretty receptive. But it took a while for me to learn to have confidence about it. So keep those two things in your head and smile when you say it. That goes a long way with them :)

 

[siniang]

Much of the public doesn't understand how it works

Because there is a lot of conflicting information out there and the official laws don't read intuitively and are quite confusing. Not to mention all the fake service dogs/ESAs and people using the wrong names for either (throw in therapy dog in the mix for even more confusion ;) ).

I hope this isn't too off-topic, but since we're already talking about laws, I have a couple questions just for my own curiosity/understanding (because: see above. I want to be better informed to be able to inform other people myself when it comes up).

I'm fully aware about the differences in legal protection they have, respectively. What I'm unclear of is the process to get there/documentation. This is for the US.

It is my understanding that an ESA needs to be "prescribed" by an official mental health professional and this "prescription" acts as certification (which you then have to show for housing/transportation).

For a dog to receive protection as a "service dog", however, he doesn't need an actual prescription (and there is no need for official "certification" as far as I understood it) but he/she needs

- to be tasked-trained for a specific task to help with at least one prospect of the illness
- needs to pass a public access test (don't get hung up on the name, I don't know if this is the correct one or there is an official one - please kindly educate me :) )
- the owner needs to have a disability.

The last part is where I find the least information on. What I found is that, while you're allowed to self-train your service dog (and can make your initial pet one), simply having a diagnosis alone isn't sufficient and that >technically< a judge decides on whether or not you have a disability.

I was curious as to how that actually works out in reality, outside of law books.

 

[Freida]

the short version :laugh:
Because service dogs are considered medical equipment there are no regulations at all. No training, licenses, doctors notes, no court, nothing. It's just my word that I need him. We are protected under the ADA so the dog goes where I go with only very limited restrictions ( think a sterile burn ward) What makes him a service dog is that he is trained to do specific tasks to assist me with my disability, but I don't have to prove I have one.
Think of him like a wheelchair. Anyone can have one, and you wouldn't ask them to prove they needed it right? Same with service dogs. Oh..and only dogs and mini ponies can be service animals.

Legitimate service dog owners will train their dogs to do the tasks they need done as well as advanced obedience. A lot of us do the public access test on our own or with the organization that we get them thru just to make sure our dogs are reliable in public. It's a bitch of a test that really makes sure we are doing the whole in public thing right

Emotional support animals are completely different. They are strictly comfort animals. If you get a doctor's note for one you can give it to your landlord and you get to keep it even if there is a no pet policy. Same with airlines...bring a note and your pet flies free.

Those two places are the only times you can use the emotional support permission slip. They don't have any rights in public that normal pets dont have. They have no other ADA rights

The problem is that people can buy a vest in the internet and call their dog whatever they want. That's why you see those barking peeing pooping dogs out there. And they are a real danger, because they haven't been trained. You may think your little fluffy is fine in public...right up until she freaks out and bites someone. And they are a danger to real service dogs. I know of two handlers who had their service dogs killed right in front of them in grocery stores by a pets in a vest

So we ...the real ones...are on a campaign to educate people on the difference and hopefully start shaming the asshats who are gaming the system into leaving Fifi home. Mostly by explaining the difference between us and then and letting businesses know they do have a right to ask teams to leave if the dog isn't under complete control of the handler. You will rarely see a real service dog in a grocery cart or in a retractable leash (unless handler is in a wheelchair) and you would never see one sitting on a table or peeing in the floor in a store. Plus they are pretty rare simply because they are expensive and take about 18 months to train. so next time you see that yappy little dog in the doctors office pulling at the end of the leash??? Not a service dog.

Another huge issue are all those websites that promise to register your dog as either a service or ESA. Those are total scams because there is no required registry. Those people are making a fortune putting out fake id badges, which just confuses the public when they ask me for mine and I don't have one. It's a huge battle and waste of money.

Whew! Yep. Short version! :laugh:

 

[siniang]

@Freida Thank you so much for the very precise "short" version :) I think it summarizes it wonderfully.

Most of the things >I< already knew, but it's really easy and clear to understand for those who didn't. This is such important information (and I've actually made it a little bit of my mission to educate people whenever the topic comes up on social media...mostly shaming people who obviously use fake SDs/ESAs ? )

So, just for my clarification. While there is no required public access test, most ) people (who don't get their dog through an organization) do it just for their own peace of mind that the dog has the expected level of obedience?

And coming back to my question re disability. Obviously, to have protection under ADA you have to have a disability to begin with. Physical impairments are easier, but so far I haven't really found anything re psychological disabilities. I don't remember where I read it but I did read somewhere that, at least technically, it's decided in court whether or not your impairment qualifies as a "disability" (and all the benefits that come with that). When I tried to read up on this, this part became really confusing really fast and I just didn't find any clear answer (especially with regard to SDs - when trying to google it some, e.g. "PTSD disability" or "mental disorder and disability" almost everything that comes up is veteran-related and deals more with social security and compensation etc.). Of course I very well may be completely wrong, that's why I'm asking :)

And: I would SO wish they'd do something against all those websites offering "registration" and "certification" and providing fake psychological letters and selling vests (yeah, both ESAs and SDs don't actually need any vest or tag or ANYTHING identifying them as such - but most people don't know that; it looks more official if they do, especially if actually they're fake ??). And I wish they would fine people obviously faking them more. My state has actually changed laws recently to introduce high fines - but enforcing that is tricky (because under ADA you can't actually ask anything beyond the two questions you mentioned earlier) unless the dog is OBVIOUSLY misbehaving - and even than it's probably very tricky to proof/enforce. I hate egocentric people who ruin it for those who legitimately need SDs (and even ESAs).

 

[EveHarrington]

I did read somewhere that, at least technically, it's decided in court whether or not your impairment qualifies as a "disability" (and all the benefits that come with that).

You’re thinking of SSDI, but even so, the courts don’t universally decide that someone is disabled. There are plenty of people who are on SSDI and skipped over the whole going before a judge/court step. Not to mention the fact that most people who are disabled are not on SSDI/SSI. The courts only decide if your disability is severe enough to warrant benefits as you cannot work. SSDI proceedings have nada to deal with needing a service dog.

 

[Recovery4Me]

Thank you @Freida. It is cool that you train! I will certainly take notes in order to handle the stigma from various employed personalities.

the short version :laugh:
Because service dogs are considered medical equipment there are no regulations at all.

Ok. I am now completely deaf on one side due to nerve damage from the Ménière’s ear Disease. One gov employee said that would be a signal dog. Is this term interchangeable with service dog?

The dog will be trained to let me know when someone is at the door and for notifications on my phone as well as other duties over time.

Emotional support animals are completely different

Also the dog will fall under the above concerning the PTSD. One of the employees from the gov. told me I would hit both categories. Are there two separate tags? I seriously appreciate this, you have always be kind.

Not to mention the fact that most people who are disabled are not on SSDI/SSI.

True! It is so good to read you btw. Thanks for your post.

In response to @siniang I don’t receive disability as I managed to work quite a while with mine. So as Eve offered no judge is needed for my animal. Thank you however, for being a viable part of this thread as I am learning too. ?

 

[Freida]

So, just for my clarification. While there is no required public access test, most ) people (who don't get their dog through an organization) do it just for their own peace of mind that the dog has the expected level of obedience?

exactly! It runs thru a whole bunch of things your dog will need to do in public -- things I had never thought about. Like I knew Sam couldn't beg for food -- but the tester actually dropped food on his nose when he was in a down/stay to see if he would react. I drag him into so many unfamiliar situations that it was really good to see that he would be reliable and not get all freaked out by new things.

My state has actually changed laws recently to introduce high fines - but enforcin4g that is tricky (because under ADA you can't actually ask anything beyond the two questions you mentioned earlier) unless the dog is OBVIOUSLY misbehaving - and even than it's probably very tricky to proof/enforce.

Yep mine too. It will be hard to enforce but it will be really good for when someone or another dog gets bitten. A service dog is worth $15000 - $45000 and takes about two years to train so if something were to happen to SD I could sue the people for a fake dog. That would give my lawyer and the cops more ability to dig into if it was a fake or not, because it's actually a crime. That would trump ADA privacy rules

I hate egocentric people who ruin it for those who legitimately need SDs (and even ESAs).

Me too!!!

Is this term interchangeable with service dog?

Nope - it's just a service dog. guide for blind, hearing, ptsd, alert, whichever is an adjective you can use to describe him but it all falls under the service dog heading

The dog will be trained to let me know when someone is at the door and for notifications on my phone as well as other duties over time

This ^^^ is what makes it a service dog -- tasks that are specific to your disability. Each service dog does something specific for the individual

Are there two separate tags?

Yep. Totally different categories. That's where a lot of the confusion comes in.
Think of it like building a house. The people on site are home builders, but they each have a different title and job.... like carpenter or plumber.

I seriously appreciate this, you have always be kind.

You're very welcome! I'm always happy to answer questions because it makes it better for all of us if people understand the ins and outs.

 

[siniang]

@EveHarrington and @Freida Thank you so much for the clarification? I tried to read up on it a lot and found a ton of ambiguous and conflicting information on that part. As ADA = disability and really all I could find re disability (i.e. whether or not a certain impairment + diagnosis) qualifies for the "disabled" label = protection under ADA, was that at least technically the diagnosis alone doesn't qualify.

As in: To officially be allowed a SD you need to be "disabled" first. And other than the judge/court thing I just couldn't find anything with regard to what constitutes "disabled".

But as I said from the beginning, I'm might very well be wrong on that part, hence, THANK YOU.

I think this is the part where a lot of confusion for the general public >may< be caused, too. Because, dumped down, it essentially means that you yourself can decide whether or not you need a SD (talking SD here, not ESA = require prescription, less protections). It kinda requires a leap of faith that people don't abuse the system for their pet dog, as there is no official test, no official registry/certification, no official need for diagnosis. I'm thinking hypochondriacs here, for example. They're not really in need of a SD, but they >think< they are.

Am I making sense? (typing before my first morning coffee)

@Recovery4Me I'm still not quite sure about the "tag" thing. Neither ESA nor SD require tags?!