Relationships, forgiveness ...the price of inclusion?

[Whirlwind]

I could use some advice. I'm trying to make this short so bear with me....

Friends know ex abused me. It seemed that they chose him over me (Ex is "somebody" and everyone flocks to him). He got support, I got sympathy.

I did not expect them to disown him. With me they did the "fade away".

I remember a friend felt they were being "neutral" but pulled me aside to tell me he would not tell (his wife, adult kids I was close with etc) the "WHY" of our divorce. He asked me not to tell them (not that I had plans to). I felt shamed, and his neutral could also be translated as protecting my ex. I remember a couple of encounters with peripheral folks.....like the mother of a friend. She wouldn't even speak to me. Somehow I was the "bad guy". No one has ever asked me about "it". Not one checked in on me the last couple of years to see how I was doing.

I know today he is welcome with them and occasionally blows by for applause.

I was just contacted out of the blue and invited to stay with them. "Everyone would love to see me".

I have never burdened anyone with it ever but I feel the stain was applied to me, not him. He rebounded magnificently as he does and I did not, will not. I feel I was the uncomfortable reminder for them, they knew my financial situation was poor, having to move, I am alone here etc.

Part of me is heart warmed and part of me would like to tell them to go to hell. I do not think they condone abuse but I feel they cover for him. His first wife claimed abuse and no one believed her. They know it happened with me so they were obviously wrong about her. He has a history. Honestly I do not think they are bad people. They can't all be, you know?

But some peripheral folks I will not engage..they set him up with women. I mean, really? No one can stop him but why would you feed the monster? Blood so to speak is on their hands. yeesh.

But I feel the unwritten terms of re-engagement will be to not make anyone uncomfortable, and never speak of "it". I am really isolated, I miss them. I never expected them to champion for me but ... simple example but they offered him help re work, not that he needed it. He stayed with them, he has plenty of $. No one offered me help like this and I needed it. I hope I explain this right as I don't expect them to fix things for me but I was surprised how they rallied around him. He bears zero repercussion from what I saw.

I don't know, at times I feel I didn't get the same life play book everyone else did. But I know I aspire to standards others just don't and it can be very lonely on top of that high horse. :-P

Reality play book: He is somebody = his high "value" outweighs his actions = victim just needs to suck it up.

Geez, thanks for listening!

Whirlwind

 

[somerandomguy]

What kind of advice do you want?

That happened to me, too. After my abuse and my divorce, she kept all the friends. I ended up moving in with a relative in a new city, which was horribly lonely but was probably the best thing I could have done at the time because I avoided all of the drama.

Of course, I just ended up recreating a lot of the drama for myself by keeping tabs on my ex obsessively for the next few years.

If you can, you should let go of the drama, and try to evict your ex from your mind - right now he's living there rent-free. I know that's a whole lot easier said than done. But the sooner you can let go, the better off you'll be.

 

[blackemerald1]

Whirlwind I really feel for you. Certain aspects of your situation I too have experienced.

I don't completely understand your neutral friends reasoning but either way it was cowardly behaviour or something else was at play. Like disbelief about the abuse you suffered or they were deriving a benefit from 'siding' with your ex.

I'm still very angry with the way people behaved in the aftermath of my trauma. It seems you are too.

Do you think you could go to these friends with a peaceful heart and mind? Can you set aside and forgive them for the choices they made when you needed them?

Forgiveness plays a big role in this dilemma. Obviously you still resent how you were treated. So can you forgive and you use this opportunity to mend some fences or as in my case, does it all run too deep?

Knowing that you are not going to be permitted to be authentic about your life and recovery or they continue to be insensitive and swayed by your ex's status would help me make a decision.

Maybe they consider that enough time has passed that you are going to be 'over it' now. What will happen when they discover that you are not the old you?

But then again, people do change their minds; life happens to them too and sometimes, rarely, they come to understand a little of what you've experienced in terms of the trauma. Perhaps it's worth giving them a second chance?

Loneliness within trauma is incredibly difficult and I do understand how displaced you felt and still do feel. Can re-engaging with these people happen on your terms or will it all be re-traumatising?

What happens if your ex blows by for some applause whilst you are there with them?

 

[grit]

I am kind of like somerandomguy here. I think at some point in life as adults we have to make very difficult decisions of moving forward and letting go all - think about this for a second. You loved this ex but now you do not or at least you are working on moving on from someone you thought the world and cared deeply. Same can be said for parents or children or anyone who is and was in abusive relationships. At some point self-perseverance is a thing and without it, even relationships mean nothing more than automatic and robotic way of relating no difference than what got us here - truly.
In my own situation, I had to cut off my own mother so I could really find relief, learn who I am and find my way back to her so I am not tangled, triggered or diffused with her. I chose when I felt healthy and stable and separate from her. And this is the woman who created or nurtured my non-existent psychological being and my mind by abusing me to the point of leaving my body for a long time in dissociation.
I think my point is you care about this people, you have history with them but they also showed you who they are. There is many ways to react to abuse and divorce and they chose to censor you and who knows why...who knows why we all do what we do?

I think for your journey, recovery (If you want an advise) is to be honest with them and say you know something I really care about you and I want to be in your life but I need some time. I need to heal some wounds so I can rejoin the tribe when I am stronger. You are being honest and you are taking your time (of course so easy to say this from afar not knowing the distance and the connections you have with this people).

What you do not need and this is mostly applicable to intimate relationships even though it also happens in families is to have your ex as reference to compare your own journey to all the time. You are here and he/she is there and you are being ignored and he or she is being set up...it is such a dangerous game to play while you are trying to find energy to heal from the tsunami you have been through.

It is better to have one good friend you just met than many whom you do not feel safe enough to be you.

Sorry very long and I have had very much similar thing and even cut off siblings who became re-enforcers you know the flying monkeys for my mom. I cut them off and the best decision I made and now I am in relationship with some of them. but life is too short really. Every door that closes another one opens.

 

[Friday]

Part of me is heart warmed and part of me would like to tell them to go to hell. I do not think they condone abuse but I feel they cover for him. His first wife claimed abuse and no one believed her. They know it happened with me so they were obviously wrong about her. He has a history. Honestly I do not think they are bad people. They can't all be, you know?

The decision I made was “f*ck ‘em.”

I didn’t do it loudly, but I didn’t hide it, either. I asked them if they ever wondered how they would treat a battered wife? They just found out. By being the people who help her husband and shun her.

Same semi-horrified excuse of “we were just trying to be neutral” along with the added how hard it was for them, as kids, when their parents split.

I asked if it was a domestic violence divorce? (I knew it wasn’t, so I was baiting them a bit.) And as kids, how they felt about people they trusted being nice to the man who beat up their mom? What lessons did that teach them, as kids?

And then I walked away, and I haven’t had anything to do with them, since.

They ARE fairly decent people.

And that’s the thing. Decent people do shitty things, all the time. I can’t blame them for liking my ex, I liked him enough to marry him. I can’t blame them for wanting to keep things normal, I spent years trying to keep things normal.

But there’s a moment, when things change, and it’s time to step up or not. They missed their chance, with me. Maybe they’ll do the same thing to the next battered spouse, or maybe they’ll stop, think, and step up. Can’t say. Because those are the choices for their lives, and when I asked for them to have my back? They didn’t. So I don’t want them in my life. Because when push comes to shove, I already know they aren’t going to have my back. And pleasant small talk? Isn’t something that I value very highly. I can find that, anywhere. People that have my back, on the other hand, are prized. That’s not them. Which is unfortunate, certainly. But it’s not something you can learn over cocktails, either. The rubber has to meet the road. It did. I learned. They’re superficial, and not to be relied upon.

It’s not that I don’t believe people don’t rate second chances, or can’t learn, or change. But I’ve learned to take people as they are, instead of who I want them to be.

Not saying what you should do, just sharing what I did, and why.

 

[Mach123]

I've seen this so many times. You really think they'll be your friends and you really think they'll consider the details, but they don't. Sometimes like one of them will. But it just works like that. Sometimes, if there are children, but even then the fade away happens.

 

[Whirlwind]

What kind of advice do you want?........Of course, I just ended up recreating a lot of the drama for myself by keeping tabs on my ex obsessively for the next few years.
If you can, you should let go of the drama, and try to evict your ex from your mind - right now he's living there rent-free.

I think I am trying to check my perceptions. I have wondered if I am "alone" today by some unfortunate circumstances or if I am too hard on people, if I didn't try hard enough.

fyi No - he is not living there anymore and will not be, zero chance. No drama between us, I ceased to exist for him and I have no misgivings about him.

Knowing that you are not going to be permitted to be authentic about your life and recovery or they continue to be insensitive and swayed by your ex's status would help me make a decision.

Yes, they benefit, I can actually forgive that .... I get it and frankly if you aren't dating him he may be shallow but he's a blast.

I think my head scratch is ......well, fine, give him a couch but he had a house while I didn't have a chair.

Yes, I could forgive them but you hit on a bigger issue of if I can be my authentic self. I am becoming who I was before, which feels good. I am doing so good in many ways but my "lack of people" is my achilles heel.

But upside I moved to a community, it will get better. People know my name here now, that is already nice.

I think at some point in life as adults we have to make very difficult decisions of moving forward and letting go all

Thing is I have done this, I wonder if I did it too freely, didn't fight hard enough? It seems folks revolve back to their FOO, the core unit and I end up getting left on the side of the freeway. Everyone knows I will be ok so they don't come back to get me, LOL

It takes time to get close and I feel very behind the curve ball due to my age.

I asked them if they ever wondered how they would treat a battered wife? They just found out. By being the people who help her husband and shun her.

Brutal. My ex told them in his no nonsense robotic way.

They’re superficial, and not to be relied upon.

Yea I just....keep him what ever but doesn't even one person say ...... DUDE! WTH?! It is Whirlwind! She cooked 1000 meals for us. She was there when X happened. She was the only one who ever did A with us...

Did I count so little?

Not saying what you should do, just sharing what I did, and why.

I get it. I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences, thoughts.

Thank you,

Whirlwind

 

[mumstheword]

I recently watched a youtube vid entitled"Why narcissists are kind to everyone else" or something like that. It helped.
It's hard to get your head around the extreme abuse they heap upon us, while everyone else thinks they are great.

It's very common for these types of people to wow other's with their charm while they systematically destroy us, behind closed doors.

It's a bit crazy-making in itself.

They "hoover" and "love bomb" and charm and well, it feeds their narcissistic need for admiration. It's only when they have power, and believe they have us trapped, that the facade drops and the real narcy sadist shows their maladaprive colours.

Most people are charmed and niave.

I don't really cope well, with it though.

Maybe I'm just too Aspie and hurt? But I avoid the people who think he's great. I can't (won't?)explain to them why they are wrong. I'm not playing "tit for tat" and I'm not prepared to put myself through the hurt of dealing with people, who are, in effect, blind to me. Still healing, still licking wounds, coz c-PTSD, that set me up for his narcy, long term abuse.

I already have to deal with plenty of my children still having a relationship with him, and while he does mess with their heads a lot, they choose to hang around for crumbs and are susceptible to his hoovering tactics.

He is invested in keeping them codependant on him, so I just have to wait for when the "slow cook" derailment happens. I can help them put themselves back together.They are adults and yes, I am able to support some to have healthier and healthier boundaries.

It hurts to know that he can be "nice" but chose to be, very much, the opposite, to me.

 

[blackemerald1]

It is Whirlwind! She cooked 1000 meals for us. She was there when X happened. She was the only one who ever did A with us...
Did I count so little?

^Yeah... I felt this way for a while too. But not anymore - there is no universal chalkboard where you can keep some credit for when bad things happen. Nobody remembers your name when you need them. It hurts and I'm so sorry.

You are valuable Whirlwind - they are the ones that truly do not count at all.

I am doing so good in many ways but my "lack of people" is my achilles heel.

But upside I moved to a community, it will get better. People know my name here now, that is already nice.

^Sounds like me again too. But I have a huge problem communicating with people irl aside from ptsd which doesn't help either.

Yeah... people knowing your name and becoming comfortable with you all takes time. But you know this and in the meantime... you look into the past at all of the effort you made to build a life with him and friends. Now, unfortunately or fortunately depending on when and how you are feeling.... you must start anew and look to building a future instead.

I can understand your dilemma.. I've got family that left me stranded in my darkest days and yet I am expected to be supportive when life catches up with them. :cautious: :banghead:

 

[mamachick]

Been in similar situation. I try to remind myself of a saying because I do see that people are not all good or bad "Im strong enough to forgive but not foolish enough to trust you again" When I follow that, I am sometimes lonely but its much more gentle than the heartache for me.

 

[Freida]

I'm with @Friday in the f*ck em mentality but I'm also a big proponent of "not my circus not my monkeys"

The people in your old life are just that. Part of your old life. You have changed the rules and you have moved on to an entirely different life. Those people simply do not fit into your new world.
They didnt change.
YOU did.
For the better

You can miss them, but it might help to think that you are clearing space for new people to appear. People who want to have the new, stronger more confident you in their lives

 

[EveHarrington]

I recently watched a youtube vid entitled"Why narcissists are kind to everyone else" or something like that. It helped.
It's hard to get your head around the extreme abuse they heap upon us, while everyone else thinks they are great.

It's very common for these types of people to wow other's with their charm while they systematically destroy us, behind closed doors.

It's a bit crazy-making in itself.

They "hoover" and "love bomb" and charm and well, it feeds their narcissistic need for admiration. It's only when they have power, and believe they have us trapped, that the facade drops and the real narcy sadist shows their maladaprive colours.

Most people are charmed and niave.

I don't really cope well, with it though.

Maybe I'm just too Aspie and hurt? But I avoid the people who think he's great. I can't (won't?)explain to them why they are wrong. I'm not playing "tit for tat" and I'm not prepared to put myself through the hurt of dealing with people, who are, in effect, blind to me. Still healing, still licking wounds, coz c-PTSD, that set me up for his narcy, long term abuse.

I already have to deal with plenty of my children still having a relationship with him, and while he does mess with their heads a lot, they choose to hang around for crumbs and are susceptible to his hoovering tactics.

He is invested in keeping them codependant on him, so I just have to wait for when the "slow cook" derailment happens. I can help them put themselves back together.They are adults and yes, I am able to support some to have healthier and healthier boundaries.

It hurts to know that he can be "nice" but chose to be, very much, the opposite, to me.

Do you have a link to the video?

I think it would help me.

Thanks.