New T - feedback on his lack of acknowledgment would be helpful

[beaneeboo]

I also struggle with this neutral blank slate style of therapist when I've encountered it. And I think you're right that when you have not ever had sympathy for what you experienced and had a lot of people making it out to be no big deal- you do need, from one person in your life- recognition that you've suffered. Once you've had that from another human being, I think it opens the door to being able to benefit from the more clinical style.

Thanks @sidptitala - you wrote it so much better than i could..i think you get where I'm coming from...

Another thing to consider is the role that email format played. For me personally I've tended to dissociate when speaking about hard subjects and not looking at the other person as I'm talking helps me to do that, and so does email.

exactly how it's been for me with my last therapist who was face to face... took nearly a year to be able to talk just a bit about it and stay present enough in the room.... but this new T is online only.. and, thanks for pointing the whole online impact thing out to me...because i think it is more of a struggle in some ways for me... though it's early days and i haven't figured out why...

But not really being there with the other person means I don't see them and don't feel relief from talking about it

maybe it's this for me... it all felt very formal

. I've realised that I need to pay attention and try to stay here when talking in order to feel witnessed, which itself feels necessary. I wonder if emailing about it took that opportunity away from you.

yes i think you may be right.... my old T was very pro bringing it to the room and speaking about it.. often me reading through what I'd typed out... hardest thing in the world to do... but actually better for feeling it's tangible..

I agree with this. I would also say that not all therapists are great at empathy even if you ask. And that it's better to change if over a period of time you have discussed this with him but it feels like it's harming you. But plenty of therapists will project a blank slate at the start until they figure out what you need. And telling him this is a good way to figure out which one it is.

Yes this is what everyone is saying and I do agree now

 

[Weemie]

I also disagree this is a trauma survivor need

I agree with all that's been said so far particularly @LunaticOnTheFritz and @Friday but this in particular stood out to me. I talk about this a lot so bear with me lol. But I have trauma from human trafficking and I have RAD which morphed into schizoid.

Because of how severe it is most people have a kneejerk negative reaction to hearing about it. I was indoctrinated into an armed group and forced to be in a gang as a child as well as sexually trafficked. So pretty serious stuff. When I tell most people they have a clear aversive response.

Oh G-d! That's horrible! OMG! And what happens is that I have to comfort them because they lack emotional fortitude and I'm comforting them over their reaction to my trauma. So when I'm looking for assistance, I wind up expending even more energy that I already don't have because of avolition, to making them feel better.

What I need more than anything else from a clinician is composure. I can handle my emotions and you handle your emotions. The modalities and odds and ends I can teach them. I can't teach them calmness. It gives me a complex on top of it because I feel alienated and cut off from others anyway, only to learn even the therapist can't deal with it.

For the record the best therapists I've found who have the skillset we need are pediatric/forensic. My current T administered the violent sexual offender treatment (VSOT) here. Once your patients are the abusers you evidently develop a thick skin due to hearing constant unrepentant smug entitled pedophiles justify why their victims were "asking for it."

But yeah. This is your side of the tracks as a patient/client! Tell him his response isn't working for you and explain why. If he is a good therapist he will set aside his ego and adjust. If he isn't maybe he will get offended and that is when you know it's time to move on.

PS There is a study which shows that in patients with PTSD and developmental trauma, neutrality is perceived as hostility.

 

[No More]

Another to add voice to saying that I disagree empathy & validation are a trauma survivor need.

Personally I love the neutrality. I don’t want someone else’s emotions. I dont want to be handling my shit and then trying to second guess their shit, and handle that. I think the correct thing is for a therapist to *not* bring their own feelings into a session with a client.

I think the question here is why does his emotional reaction carry such a weight for you? Because clinically he responded perfectly. Definitely you can communicate what you feel would be most helpful for you in terms of his style, but obviously that’s something he’s perfectly free to turn away from as well.

I’d also say, there’s a disconnect between what I think you are wanting and your method of communicating. Email is a very cold and factual way to present information. It’s removed and disconnected, unlike sharing in person which is generally warmer by the nature of it. Perhaps he interpreted the fact the information he received was via email as a signal that he needed to stay slightly removed from the emotional side of it as well? Might it be worth really challenging yourself to share this in person, and seeing if it naturally feels more validating to you?

 

[beaneeboo]

I love this community! Different perspectives, careful consideration, sharing of personal stories etc... Very grateful every time I come on here... It's so interesting how lots of us see things from different angles, and it's healthy to discuss...

So, there's a focus on this statement

I also disagree this is a trauma survivor need.

The issue I have with taking this statement as truth, is that for people like myself, (and for me, and this particular specific trauma which lasted a period of 2 years) the assumption is,: if I now want validation for it in some way from my therapist, it either means I'm not a trauma survivor or it wasn't actually trauma. Both of which aren't correct either.

So I think a more balanced way to look at it is, for some trauma survivors, it's a need at a certain point in their journey, for others, it never has been and maybe never will be. It's taken in total 6.5 years of therapy over all for me to get to the point of wanting validation from a therapist. The only people I've told about it are my last T and this T.

And what happens is that I have to comfort them because they lack emotional fortitude and I'm comforting them over their reaction to my trauma. So when I'm looking for assistance, I wind up expending even more energy that I already don't have because of avolition, to making them feel better.

This is a great point. Since I've only ever told 2 people, both Ts, I don't have this experience. I can't imagine actually discussing it with anyone in the outside world.

What I need more than anything else from a clinician is composure. I can handle my emotions and you handle your emotions.

This I get 100% from when my last T didn't handle his emotions with regard to a particular issue (which you likely all remember!) and his stuff bled into my stuff... So yeah, I can totally get where you're coming from when you frame it like this

PS There is a study which shows that in patients with PTSD and developmental trauma, neutrality is perceived as hostility.

So interesting!

I think the question here is why does his emotional reaction carry such a weight for you?

h.mmm I've been considering this... what comes up for me is the amount of gas lighting I've experienced in my life from multiple sources... which obviously includes a huge amount of invalidation. I grew up being told not to think or feel what i did / do and that actually reality was different to how i experienced it. So maybe that's why I cravev the validation.

Because clinically he responded perfectly.

is there an expected perfect Clinical response? Maybe he responded appropriately given the info he had on me at the time?

Definitely you can communicate what you feel would be most helpful for you in terms of his style, but obviously that’s something he’s perfectly free to turn away from as well.

totally agree

I’d also say, there’s a disconnect between what I think you are wanting and your method of communicating.

I hadn't seen it like this and I think you're right. And it comes again, most likely, from my inability to say things in the moment and hold my ground, internally and externally. I still question my judgment on most things about myself or what I've experienced most days. The dissociative disorder and amnesia which comes with that doesn't help. But i think my brain is constantly looking and searching for validation for anything and everything about me and my experiences... only I can't voice my need as I never learned to do that and it still doesn't feel safe...

Email is a very cold and factual way to present information. It’s removed and disconnected, unlike sharing in person which is generally warmer by the nature of it. Perhaps he interpreted the fact the information he received was via email as a signal that he needed to stay slightly removed from the emotional side of it as well? Might it be worth really challenging yourself to share this in person, and seeing if it naturally feels more validating to you?

Think you may have hit the nail on the head... and I think I prob need tu bring this whole issue I've brought up here and the way you have framed it here is a helpful way for me to do that

 

[LunaticOnTheFritz]

I agree with all that's been said so far particularly @LunaticOnTheFritz and @Friday but this in particular stood out to me. I talk about this a lot so bear with me lol. But I have trauma from human trafficking and I have RAD which morphed into schizoid.

Because of how severe it is most people have a kneejerk negative reaction to hearing about it. I was indoctrinated into an armed group and forced to be in a gang as a child as well as sexually trafficked. So pretty serious stuff. When I tell most people they have a clear aversive response.

Oh G-d! That's horrible! OMG! And what happens is that I have to comfort them because they lack emotional fortitude and I'm comforting them over their reaction to my trauma. So when I'm looking for assistance, I wind up expending even more energy that I already don't have because of avolition, to making them feel better.

What I need more than anything else from a clinician is composure. I can handle my emotions and you handle your emotions. The modalities and odds and ends I can teach them. I can't teach them calmness. It gives me a complex on top of it because I feel alienated and cut off from others anyway, only to learn even the therapist can't deal with it.

For the record the best therapists I've found who have the skillset we need are pediatric/forensic. My current T administered the violent sexual offender treatment (VSOT) here. Once your patients are the abusers you evidently develop a thick skin due to hearing constant unrepentant smug entitled pedophiles justify why their victims were "asking for it."

But yeah. This is your side of the tracks as a patient/client! Tell him his response isn't working for you and explain why. If he is a good therapist he will set aside his ego and adjust. If he isn't maybe he will get offended and that is when you know it's time to move on.

PS There is a study which shows that in patients with PTSD and developmental trauma, neutrality is perceived as hostility.

I don't think anyone said the T lost composure. But I imagine a new T is much like any other new relationship. Things will seem indifferent until they get to know you. Right now the T is getting to know the patient and probably mentally analyzing how best to help.

I get what you're saying but I also think trauma survivors needs are probably as diverse as anyone else's needs depending on where they are in dealing with their trauma and where they are in their healing journey.

I do agree that beanee needs to vocalize her needs to the new T. Sometimes with certain people if someone sympathizes and tries to comfort them they don't like that. Perhaps the T is just trying to get a read on beanee.

I also agree that neutrality can be perceived as hostility. But not all trauma patients may feel that way. Some of them need that neutrality in order to open up I think.

 

[Charbella]

The issue I have with taking this statement as truth, is that for people like myself, (and for me, and this particular specific trauma which lasted a period of 2 years) the assumption is,: if I now want validation for it in some way from my therapist, it either means I'm not a trauma survivor or it wasn't actually trauma. Both of which aren't correct either.

That is NOT what I said nor what I meant. Your statement which I was replying to implied the opposite and I was just sharing my perspective. So I will amend to say that not ALL survivors need the empathy you seek. I was trying to say that a trauma therapist shouldn’t make assumptions either way because the results could be terrible.

You seem fine searching for the perfect therapist and I think that’s great for you. I mean I would’ve canned your last one too. The difference is it might’ve taken me years to go back because my trust issues run deep. So a trauma therapist being neutral is the way they should start out. A good one will adapt to YOUR needs. But also in the first session I knew my request for neutrality would be honored and 20 years ago when I did therapy before I could tell in just a phone chat, initial book a session. That soft spoken your handling a deer who might spook is terribly off putting to ME.

If you’re looking for empathy that doesn’t mean your wrong but neither is my way of therapy.

 

[beaneeboo]

That is NOT what I said nor what I meant. Your statement which I was replying to implied the opposite and I was just sharing my perspective. So I will amend to say that not ALL survivors need the empathy you seek. I was trying to say that a trauma therapist shouldn’t make assumptions either way because the results could be terrible.

Hi @Charbella , it's all good! I'm discussing my perceptions of statements made and i don't add any judgement to anyone here ever etc... especially as written communication can just be miss understood or mis communicated so easily...So i just reply what comes to mind... which was for me if empathy/validation is not a trauma survivor's need, then where does that leave me? But I hear you when you say that's not what you intended and I also get your perspective.

yes i agree, trauma therapists, or any one for that matter, but especially them, shouldn't make assumptions either way...

You seem fine searching for the perfect therapist and I think that’s great for you.

Not sure what this means

I mean I would’ve canned your last one too. The difference is it might’ve taken me years to go back because my trust issues run deep.

Not sure I'll be going back at all at this rate! Though different parts have different opinions on that

. So a trauma therapist being neutral is the way they should start out. A good one will adapt to YOUR needs.

yes this seems to be the theme that everyone is coming up with... and that's helpful for me to see and remember.. because my critical voice was beginning to take over a bit and start up regarding him and his ability as a therapist... so I'm glad I came on here to get outside perspectives ...i agree with it

If you’re looking for empathy that doesn’t mean your wrong but neither is my way of therapy.

No one's way of therapy is wrong...(when it's working for them)... I don't think anyone is suggesting this? ... I guess it's not really a matter of right or wrong? We're all so different and all our stories here are so different... therapy needs are inevitably going to be so different

 

[beaneeboo]

I don't think anyone said the T lost composure. But I imagine a new T is much like any other new relationship. Things will seem indifferent until they get to know you. Right now the T is getting to know the patient and probably mentally analyzing how best to help.

I get what you're saying but I also think trauma survivors needs are probably as diverse as anyone else's needs depending on where they are in dealing with their trauma and where they are in their healing journey.

I do agree that beanee needs to vocalize her needs to the new T. Sometimes with certain people if someone sympathizes and tries to comfort them they don't like that. Perhaps the T is just trying to get a read on beanee.

I also agree that neutrality can be perceived as hostility. But not all trauma patients may feel that way. Some of them need that neutrality in order to open up I think.

I agree with all you've said here

I think the issue I'm seeing highlighted which I need to work on is how to communicate what I really think and feel, in the moment, with him in session...

I just lose my voice. So afraid I'm wrong. I'm strong in my conviction when I write. But I'm very weak in conversation and don't feel I can hold my own.

 

[LunaticOnTheFritz]

I understand. I think it's the confrontational feel of it. For me I'm always afraid of being hurt.

 

[beaneeboo]

I understand. I think it's the confrontational feel of it. For me I'm always afraid of being hurt.

Makes sense... for me it's about being told I'm wrong in what I'm saying, that it's not understandable, that it's selfish, that I'm stupid. So guess that's also about being hurt.

 

[LunaticOnTheFritz]

Were you verbally abused too? I know that makes a big difference for me.

 

[beaneeboo]

Were you verbally abused too? I know that makes a big difference for me.

Yes