Forgiveness - Is This A Necessary Part Of True Healing From Abuse?

[ms spock]

Hey Ms Spock, can you differentiate this two things clearly? with more specification?

Sorry, I am easily confused kind of man when I find tiny similarities in two things!

Which two particular things do you mean Jaret?

 

[Tanishq]

Which two particular things do you mean Jaret?

disassociation, derealisation, depersonalisation, denial and repression which is very different from letting go.

*this one. You wrote this in post of this thread. I do this often. I remain in denial but can't let go.

 

[intothelight]

The points here have all been excellent. Forgiveness is such a hard concept, as rationally it can be defined, but the emotional aspects of it are the hardest to deal with. For me, adding the spin of Christianity, and it becomes even harder. Or to be honest, makes me harder on myself.

At a rational level, I know that what happened is in the past. I also know some of the reasons behind their abuse and can rationalize away the self-blame. At this point I am numb with no feeling towards my main abuser, but as Ms. Spock pointed out this is a form of disassociation or depersonalization. So I still have a lot of work to do.

I guess for me, to forgive is to just let the past be the past with appropriate level of emotion tied to it. Right now nothing is tied together, and even though I am "numb" when I "think" about an abuser or an abusive situations, those emotions can still fly around and disrupt the present.

So forgiveness for me is knowing intellectually, emotionally, physically and spirituality what has happened is done. It is being able to move forward with a sense of peace, but not without a sense of feeling. Maybe forgiveness is the ability to just "move on" at all levels.

Lot of food for thought.

 

[ms spock]

I do really understand that forgiveness, letting it all go, having no negative emotions - however is easiest to term it - is a really difficult concept. But there are people who say they have truly achieved this. And they often call it forgiveness. They have peace about it.

Who are these mythical people?

How do you know that they really have achieved it?

Can you sort through all the people that come to some resolution about things in their life and be sure that they often call it forgiveness?

I would like to see the hard data on this stuff. It seems to me that a lot of the thinking surround this stuff is wishful thinking based on stories, fantasies, myths, parables, buddhist masters, but that there really aren't a lot of people out there that have really done it.

The perfectionism aspect of it all really worries me. And not doing it the 'right way' seems to give permission to dismiss or underestimate other people's healing processes.

Anyway that is for me and from what I have seen and witnessed.

 

[ms spock]

disassociation, derealisation, depersonalisation, denial and repression which is very different from letting go.

*this one. You wrote this in post of this thread. I do this often. I remain in denial but can't let go.

I didn't phrase that post to get the information I need from you Jaret. I am still not quite sure what you are asking Jaret. Do you mean the difference between denial and letting go? We might need to start another thread so as not to hijack this one, but I am willing.

 

[Shellbell]

Who are these mythical people?

How do you know that they really have achieved it?

I googled abuse and forgiveness when I first started comments on this thread. I was blown away by how many websites were talking about it and books there are about it and people who believe they have achieved it. And surprisingly there were many that weren't about religion. There are pages of it.

It was one of the things that gave me hope :)

 

[Shellbell]

I didn't phrase that post to get the information I need from you Jaret. I am still not quite sure what you are asking Jaret. Do you mean the difference between denial and letting go? We might need to start another thread so as not to hijack this one, but I am willing.

I don't mind it being talked about here. It's relevant to this thread.

Some people will confuse letting it go with denial, dissociation etc.

:)

 

[Shellbell]

The points here have all been excellent.

Maybe forgiveness is the ability to just "move on" at all levels.

Lot of food for thought.

Yes there have been lots of excellent points and definitely show the path can be different for everyone.

And I love 'moving on at all levels' It ties in well with my belief that forgiveness is about us and not about the abusers.

 

[Tanishq]

I don't mind it being talked about here. It's relevant to this thread.

Some people will confuse letting it go with denial, dissociation etc.

:)

Yes yes. It's true for me that I am confused between denial, dissociation and letting go. Ms Spock so I want to understand difference between Denial, Dissociation and letting go. I know you were talking to Philippa, but I want more understanding about it. Sorry if you feel I meddled in.

I also think it is relevant to this thread since we all are going for forgiveness.

 

[Shellbell]

That's strange, I didn't 'bold' the section that has become highlighted in the post above?

I'm probably not going to explain this as well as others can. But denial, dissociation etc are all about avoiding thinking or dealing with it. Letting go isn't avoiding thinking about it, it is about fully dealing with it, processing the trauma and getting to a place where it no longer negatively impacts your thoughts.

But someone else might have a better way of describing this?

 

[Tanishq]

Shellbell I did it in bold to highlight or second your saying. Sorry! Should have spoke first.

 

[Springer80]

Hi Shellbell,

I think I have achieved this to an extent. I know becuase I'm not longer scared of my abuser. A book that opened my eyes was 'An Evil Cradling' by Brian Keenan. I would recommend it. Now I know that I personally edit my 'emotional/cultural diet' to remove anything icky. This book is not gratuitous. Keenan was one of a few men taken as a political hostage in the Middle East in the 80's. There are some bits which aren't nice obviously, physical and mental abuse but he doesn't dwell on it. It's mainly about how he coped and what he learned.

What it did for me was to make me slowly realise that you can separate the actions from the person. Forgiveness is perhaps a bit strong but I now pity my abuser and what he allowed himself and his life to become. I do not and never will forgive or condone his actions. But I'm not scared of him. I see him as pathetic.

Interestingly the female/bystanders was the other way round, I could understand their actions, there own dissociation and fear of what was happening but I wanted/needed/expected their help and its makes it difficult to forgive them as people. Especially when they continue to avoid talking about any implication. I can carry out their side of the conversation I would like to have with them in my own head but making them talk is outside of my control. I actually found this harder, it's unresolved and even if they did, what would I want from them?

Anyway, I think forgiveness is a big step but when this happend for me it wasn't anything like how it's normally portrayed. I'm not religious or anything and it didn't feel spiritual. It was more like a relief that you've been waiting for so long it becomes almost imperceptible. I certainly didn't celebrate!! I did feel freer and more solid.

One thing I don't like is being told to forgive, or people implying your not a good person etc. Also, Forgiveness is not about swopping positions or negating yourself somehow. Its about keeping your own integrity first and foremost.

Forgiving myself ( :sick::yuck: apologies for daytime therapy phrase) is a longer process and by far the most important. I didn't get it for ages or rather I told myself I did, 'of course I don't blame myself, I'm not stupid!' etc but as it actually sinks in it changes you. One of my recent 'revelations' is that I actually didn't know the words to describe my predicament, I could talk but I was also inarticulate' etc.