The Concept Of An Inner Child... Not Really Buying It

[I Can Do This]

Hi Hashi - I find this kind of discussion really interesting and I like to see your point of view. It helps me refine what I know and add what I didn't know!

I have a metaphysical approach and see things in terms of experience, energy and meaning

That makes sense to me. I have a metaphysical understanding as well and I feel I am deeply spiritual. I think my personal life crisis forced me in that direction - but I'm glad of it now.

So I understand what you are saying that you don't believe who you are can be located in your brain. I get that completely. Our life force is of a divine source - and our "me-ness" leaves our body upon death - only the body dies and it is essentially our home or our vehicle. So while I completely agree that our "me-ness" isn't originated in the brain - I do believe the body is designed for our use while in it. And our bodies have a logical design that is virtually the same througout God's creations. As I have heard said before - we are a soul having a human experience. So on that we agree.

I think it is fair to say that any subject could be viewed from a micro level and a macro level. I think our view of ourself is both micro and macro at the same time. It might be a good way to separate the discussion. I would say that our soul and our "me-ness"as you are describing is at a macro level view. And the way our bodies work could be considerd a micro level view. There is a creative tension between the two that you always have to reconcile. So when I spoke in posts about the brain - I am speaking from a micro view of the brain. I feel you are trying to see how the brain works from the macro point of view.

Another way to see this is that we know scripture says "No weapons formed shall prosper against me". However in the material (micro) world we know that weapons can and do prosper against people every day. But if you view this scripture from the macro level - we know that no weapon can prosper against our soul. We can be killed but we are taken care of because "we" are not our body.

I don't see survival instinct as a childlike behaviour. I see it as definitely related to the mammalian brain (all mammals share it) and not connected to age or development but to our animal nature at any age.

You are correct - childlike may not be the best word for it - it is primitive or immature behavior akin to the earliest stages of development. The part about the 7 years of age is about the development of the brain in the child. There are stages of development the brain goes through like learning to walk and talk - the mammalian and reptilian brain in essence finish their development at that age in humans. Then our development is focused more in the neocortex - which is where our "me-ness" has been found to be located through MRI and other technologies. This also makes sense because the child is now developing their intellectual abilities and further establishing their own sense of independence and "me-ness" as being separate from others.

The question about being pre-verbal aligns with this too. The subconscious mind doesn't learn cognitively - it learns experientially. Words are not needed for that. The primitive brain keeps us alive and safe while we are incapable of any rational behaviors which require language and thought. An analogy that works for me is that the subconscious is like a tape recorder that records all experience through age 7 (when we begin to use our reasoning mind to a greater degree in our next level of development) - then for the rest of our lives it scans the environment through our 5 senses for matches to the past recordings. If it finds a match that was unsafe in the past - we are immediately flooded with emotions because it feels unsafe.

This part of our brain is not our "me-ness" - it is the equipment that comes with having a human body and a human experience (macro view).

If a horse was traumatised when young, I can't imagine that it's animal instincts could include blocking out the memories of that and acting as if nothing was wrong until it had grown up, paired with another horse, had a foal together, felt secure that it had pasture in summer and hay in winter, and it's father died - at which point it started to get flashbacks and nightmares.

No - it wouldn't you are correct. But why it wouldn't is important here. Horses traumatised when young are often put down because they remain in hyper vigilance and harm or kill people. In the wild a traumatized horse (for instance birthing troubles) would not survive its traumatizing event - and if it did the other animals would leave it. In the wild, sick or frightened animals are killed, even by their own herd or pack. So a horse that is traumatized in the wild wouldn't make it long - and the ones that survive it in domestication only survive because of human intervention - yet are often put down because they cannot be managed safely.

Lastly on that topic - horses don't have a large neocortex and this is incredibly important - it is apples to oranges. They live in the moment - they cannot observe themselves. So what constitutes a trauma for them must be life threatening - their father dying would not be a trauma for them. Being beaten by man, and abused - that is a trauma to them and it would repeat in them every time they see a man - because they learned that man is what is to be feared - that would be PTSD-like.

Fun discussion! I love thinking about all these things - so thank you for the opportunity!!!! It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong - just want you to know I am not disrespecting you - I just love a deep discussion.

 

[Hashi]

You've explained it really clearly. There are some points of agreement, and I'm glad we're amicable over having some differing views as well. :)

 

[Hashi]

OK, back a little more strictly to the inner child discussion.

As ever, I just want to say that I'm having to pace myself with the thread but am going through it all slowly. It's really helpful.

 

[Tanishq]

The "inner child" concept occurs both as a visualization mechanism for understanding the emotional part of yourself

This is what I feel and think when inner child comes to my mind.

 

[Pietro]

If the seat of our consciousness is in the neocortex - then even by process of elimination we can see that the subconscious has to be in the primitive section of our brains which governs our life force - as it also does in animals.

Are you sure that the subconscious has to reside specifically outside of the neocortex? My understanding is that both consciousness and the subconscious are constructions that function across all parts of the brain.

Even animals have "consciousness", and the more evolved the animal, the closer to the type of consciousness known by humans. As for the subconscious, I believe the same thing applies.

While the subconscious may favor the more "emotional" and "creative" parts of our brain, I'm not sure that means that it exists completely outside of the neocortex.

This is my understanding. If you think this is wrong, let me know. :)

 

[Hashi]

Hi Pietro,

I have also been thinking about something included in what you said - the idea of the subconscious as a "sub-layer" of the conscious mind, which I suppose would have to be within the neocortex if it's going to be fitted to the three-brain model. To keep :tup:on topic , and because I'm interested in this line of thought, could you say how you see the subconscious fitting with the inner child concept? Do you see the inner child as being (mainly?) in the subconscious part of the neocortex? What implications would that have?

I'm still not sure I want to fit my thinking about this to the three-brain model, but I'm going with it for now. In that case, I'm thinking about the extent to which the inner child is a "subfunction" (for want of a better word) of the instinctive part of us that we don't control, and a subfunction of the conscious part of us that makes decisions and judgements, even if those are unhealthy or warped ones. Is it a mixture of the two?

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Please would everyone keep posts here related to the inner child concept? I can see the possibility of a whole huge discussion about the subconscious, but want to keep this thread on topic because there's so much going on in it already. Thanks. :)

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[I Can Do This]

This is my understanding. If you think this is wrong, let me know.

Hi Pietro - Research has shown that subconscious exists outside of the prefrontal cortex. Short term memory has to be converted to long term so there must be a way that they work together - but the subconscious region of the brain is the brain stem and the midbrain. There are excellent books on the subject for those of us who like to learn about the brain. I encourage you to read those sources rather than take my word for it.:geek:

 

[I Can Do This]

Hi Hashi - I have done my best to keep this topic on the inner child. I feel the inner child "lives" in the subconscious for all the reasons that I posted before. The pre frontal cortex is for reasoning, judgement, learning and short term memory to name a few. Because the subconscious records your life to age 7 - it is your inner child by the sum of those experiences.

There are so many books that can give all the detailed information that I could barely touch on here. One of the easiest to read is any book by Harville Hendrix - he is very illuminating and explains how your subconscious or inner child chooses love partners in adulthood. He was a PHd and was in practice for decades. I beleive he gives the big picture view that we often need to stop repeating patterns.

 

[anthony]

I wondered if anyone has any thoughts on something. I should say that I struggle a huge amount with the idea of an inner child and wish therapists had a different concept for it, because this idea of an almost literal - and in some way, still present - child isn't one that I can relate to at all.

I think therapists are idiots with this... and IMHO, they're actually leading a person towards such disorders as DID by implanting a sense of isolating out a distinctive identity on purpose, which means, the client has just been coerced and manipulated. This is the exact reason why DID is now like a garden variety diagnosis, because you have all these people running around telling themselves they have alters and inner children identities.

It all comes back to this... and I agree with you Hashi, I wish they would stop the crap and use realistic terms. The mental health industry is leading, manipulative and creating shit to keep themselves employed and people thinking something is constantly wrong with them. The way psychology is going, to be human is to have something wrong with you. It's gotten ridiculous IMO.

 

[Pietro]

@I Can Do This

Obviously, I have some research to do. Thanks for the information! :)

 

[therapybankrupt]

the client has just been coerced and manipulated. This is the exact reason why DID is now like a garden variety diagnosis, because you have all these people running around telling themselves they have alters and inner children identities.

Ok all the inner child work I have done is manipulation? Where do you get this information from Anthony? Please give me some solid research on this. I thought the inner child work is very helpful with going back to traumas in EMDR? This idea you suggest as a generalization is so disturbing to me. I am feeling like I need some proof this work causes DID and is harmful. Anyone Please? I am looking for input because I have up to now believed in the whole inner child thing. I thought it was helping me with uncovering trauma amnesia.

tb

 

[anthony]

If you want to read about traumatic memory, then look at [DLMURL]https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/wiki/posttraumatic-memory/[/DLMURL] and its references, which will lead you to a lot more reading. Nobody, and I mean nobody, should be trying to assist you in recovering any traumatic memories. That is leading therapy and completely against ethical standards.

Comments about inner child is just that, my comments... but if you're relating that to traumatic memory amnesia, this is why my comments were made, because this is exactly what it leads to. Unethical therapy work... where therapists confuse using inner child as a method to look at your childhood memories versus trying to use it to implant memories and create false memories in order to resolve trauma.

People just don't want to consider... the memory may not even be present due to any number of factors.