News George Zimmermann Case And Trial

[intothelight]

What police report, coroners report or part of the trial transcript states that Martin had Skittles in his hand at the time of death? I can't find it anywhere. If this is true, then it kind of makes it hard to portray a fight where self defense was used.

From what I read the abrasions found on Martin's knuckles were conducive to someone "punching" someone else. Nothing is said about Skittles in his hand. I am not saying a fist fight should ever end in death, but even the testimony of his own girl friend indicates that Martin was going to deal with Zimmerman at that point. Also the ballistics report supported Zimmerman's recount of the altercation with Martin.

 

[BloomInWinter]

I didn't see the picture - I'm not able to view crime scene photos a whole lot anymore. I read the description but apparently I read it wrong. The skittles were on the ground near his hands.

I still feel the same way about it.

I also feel sorry for Zimmerman's cousin, but I'm glad she finally feels safe from him now. Here's a story about her accusation of molestation against him. Sad. I hope she at least has found some peace.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest...ousin-accuses-him-of-sexual-molestation-video

 

[circe47]

Does any kid deserve to die? Well, that depends on who you ask. Ask the mother of James Patrick Bulger. He was two years old when two ten year old little monsters tortured, raped, and mutilated him.

On July 4, 2013 one of his killers was paroled for the SECOND TIME. Nice. This person is not black. He is white. He is a piece of human filth that in my opinion- does not deserve to breath the same air as the rest of us. I am sure his mother thought he was an angel too and disregarded his lack of respect for adults, other children, and society in general. She was probably the kind of mother who would have thought it no big deal when her baby signaled "F*ck You!" to the world on Facebook like Tray did. She probably also ignored her son's social and academic problems. She would most likely have ignored the drugs, pot, and alcohol, too. Lastly, she probably said, "Well, he's just a boy. This is all just a childhood phase that he'll grow out of."

Here is the story.

[DLMURL]http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/05/19302979-notorious-british-child-killer-jon-venables-set-to-be-released-again?lite[/DLMURL]

I think the only people who know the REAL truth of what their son was REALLY like can answer best if Trayvon was on the right path in life, or was a thug that overstepped and bit off more than he could chew by opening his mouth and being aggressive with the wrong person.

To play the race card and say "oh my poor sweet, innocent little angel.......he didn't deserve to die" is sticking one's head in the sand and trying to make a political statement rather than try to do something that will really fix the problems society faces today. Think about that before you assume a kid who is one year shy of being an adult is really the sweet little boy you claim he is. Try being a parent that makes your kid face consequences........rather than hide behind mommy and daddy.

As for the definition of Murder? There has to be malice a forethought. This means that the perp must have prior intent to cause death or bodily harm. Absent malice a forethought- it is NOT MURDER........so STOP SAYING IT IS! It had to be proved that he PLANNED, then went out and sought out a PREVIOUSLY SELECTED victim with the intent to kill or bodily harm that particular victim. Zimmerman didn't have a clue who Trayvon was. He didn't pre-select and plan to kill him. He saw and interacted with what was a RANDOM, smart mouthed teen who thought he could throw a can of whoop ass on an old geezer. People who are uneducated on law should have NO OPINION on legal matters. Law is not personal. It is very literal. It is for everyone. If you take away the right for a jury to make a decision on your fate- that is AUTHORITARIAN and ARBITRARY.

 

[Pietro]

I also feel sorry for Zimmerman's cousin, but I'm glad she finally feels safe from him now.

This in no way has any impact on Zimmerman's guilt or innocence regarding his altercation with Martin. However, it does support my belief that Zimmerman is a very troubled individual -- a wannabe cop, looking for attention, and a control freak that feels he has to dominate others. My ex-wife's primary perp had the exact same profile and behavior.

He did have every right to be carrying a gun, concealed, because he had a legal permit for it. One might question laws that allow a person, without employment related to law enforcement or security, to have this right, or allow neighborhood watch participants to be carrying a gun while "on duty", without training in law enforcement techniques related to confrontations -- but that's for the Floridians to figure-out. :)

He was two years old when two ten year old little monsters tortured, raped, and mutilated him.

I have long been an angry person. If the perpetrators in this case had been adults, my first reaction would have been wanting to see them drawn and quartered.

However, recovery has changed my perspective on this some. If these two 10-year olds were committing such heinous acts, there's little doubt that they were, themselves, highly traumatized, outside of having any congenital neurological disorders. The same applies to adults. One would assume and hope that, as adults, they can make choices about their behavior, but severe-enough trauma can override and corrupt rational and ethical decision-making. Many of these types of perpetrators describe how they were compelled to act-out.

We certainly can't ignore or excuse the behavior-- we need, and have a right to, protect ourselves and our families from attack.

However, the punishment aspect is something I'm struggling with, right now. Because punishment and hatred is not going to cure them, nor will it do a damned thing for the victims or their loved ones. Someone else made the point here, or in another thread, that it's important to separate one's behaviors from the person, and I'm finding this to be very true.

Ultimately, who's to blame for these kinds of acts? All of us, as a society, because we allow this cycle of child abuse to continue, generation after generation, either through direct abuse, or by turning a blind eye to it and not addressing it. This is not to say that this is an easy problem to solve; the reason little is done about it is probably very much related to how complex and widespread an issue this is. However, until changes do occur with regard to how we raise children, as a society, we shouldn't be surprised at seeing this kind of behavior from time to time.

As for the definition of Murder? There has to be malice a forethought.

Agreed. However, the jury also had the option to go with Manslaughter, which would not require malice aforethought -- in the same way that killing someone by hitting them with a car, accidentally, can be considered Manslaughter. In my mind, it all comes down to who accosted whom first.

 

[BloomInWinter]

circe47, I believe it was murder, and I have every right to say what I think.

I find your response to be hostile, your tone to be sarcastic and patronizing, and your shouting to be rude.

Also, you are stating your opinion as if you can actually read another human being's mind or motivation. That is a God-like power which no human possesses. Hence, your opinion on another's thoughts is just that, your opinion. Not fact.

Nowhere did I say he was a sweet little boy. I have no idea what he was like. Neither do you.

Yes, I do believe race is one facet of the complexity of this situation. I have training in epidemiology and public health education. There is no scientifically valid social science calculus in this case which would have reliability absent controlling for race. Saying it is not about race is an opinion. The strong emotions which are expressed in arguing that race plays no issue isn't just ironic, it's proof that for some, this is a race issue.

As for saying we don't have a right to have an opinion, I disagree. We all do.

Also, while his prior accusation of molestation is not admissible in court, it does bring up questions about his character.

It also brings up a sad point that, if true, perhaps if he had been held accountable for that, he'd never have been allowed to have a spot on a neighborhood watch in the first place.

 

[Pietro]

It also brings up a sad point that, if true, perhaps if he had been held accountable for that, he'd never have been allowed to have a spot on a neighborhood watch in the first place.

Quite true.

 

[BlackbirdSinging]

My two cents. If Zimmerman was so scared for his safety that he needed to fire his gun why did he not only get out of his car and follow Trayvon in the rain but why did he walk as far as he did? Even though police told him to not follow Trayvon. If he felt so afraid he should have stayed in his vehicle and then pointed the police in Trayvon's general direction when they arrived.

And while the discussion about his right to defend himself or not is had I have this to add. If Trayvon Martin was being followed in the dark and in the rain he was possibly concerned for his own safety and he did then also have the right to defend himself.

I think if some guy follows me in the rain and in the darkness I might want to defend myself too. Why then does Zimmerman the pursuer have any more right than Trayvon to defend himself? Had he remained in his vehicle as directed by police this could be a completely different story. Trayvon might have gone home to drink his iced tea and eat his candy and watch the basketball game he'd been waiting for. Sweet or not he was approached in the night by a man who was clearly following him. That's enough to scare most people into running or defending.

 

[intothelight]

This incident involves conflict, between two individuals, that unfortunately resulted in the death of one. It is rather ironic to see conflict played out here, over differing opinions, where simple respect and an agreement to disagree would suffice.

 

[circe47]

Bloom-

You are absolutely right. You are entitled to believe and express any opinion you wish......just as I am. I'm merely pointing out that as far as the letter of the law goes, it is very literal and not up for arbitrary interpretation. That's not hostility, sarcasm, or anything else other than fact I have studied not only in law school, but by having law enforcement and judges for relatives.

Murder implies that Zimmerman previously selected Martin as his target, planned the crime, and executed said crime with the intention to kill or cause bodily injury to Martin specifically. Because the jury could not find Zimmerman guilty of those elements- they had to acquit. Anything less undermines the purpose of having a trial by jury of our peers and is not good or fair in a democratic society. On that note: IF Zimmerman is truly guilty and got away with taking another person's life absent of defending his own......well, I wouldn't want to be him. If he has any kind of soul......Trayvon's death will eat away at him and punish him in a way that prison never could.

You also might want to consider that this jury is selected by both parties who question for bias very carefully. Both are given a certain number of peremptory challenges and can excuse a potential juror using these challenges without having to give a reason. This is so that both are equally contributory to the configuration of the jury. This may not be perfect- but it is the best system for receiving a fair trial as far as I can see.

Heaven forbid you, I, or anybody we know be in a position to defend our life and be found innocent- only to be called a murderer for the rest of our life. So easily this could have been me. Should it matter what race my ex was as he sat on my seven months pregnant belly and pounded my head into the ground? For the record, he is Latino. Do you think I gave a rat's ass that he was Latino as he was trying to kill me and our unborn child? If I'd had a gun- I might have shot him too. I'd hate to think I'd be judged later for killing him ONLY because he was a Mexican.

No. I don't profess to have some sort of supernatural ability to know exactly what kind of person Trayvon Martin was. For all I know- he could have been a nice kid. However- it is human nature to make a snap judgment about strangers based on how they dress and carry themselves. As someone with PTSD, I understand completely how this mechanism works. It's like this: Every time I see ANY kid or adult dressed in over-sized shirts or hoodies over baggy jeans with an underwear covered ass hanging out, I tend to think his personality is a bit like his attire. Did you know that a person's shoes tell a great deal about the personality of the person who wears them? It is studied and proven psychology that at least 90% of the time, a person's character can be determined by what kind of kicks they wear.

As a person with PTSD, I make it a personal point to avoid ALL people who dress like thugs because if they want to dress like a thug, at least 90% of the time they have a thug mentality. I personally don't like those odds......but that's just me.....I prefer to err on the side of caution. This fashion statement looks and connotates the same mentality no matter what the race- no matter what country.

If we are going to assume that Zimmerman is a violent misogynist because he assaulted a cop at the age of 21(i.e. still stupid) and once had a restraining order against him- then we have to take a stab at Trayvon's character too. From what I can SEE on the internet, he was a kid who liked to do drugs, was suspended from school for vandalism, was expelled from school for having marijuana baggies in his backpack. I don't know about you, but those are plenty of clues into his character. Was there a possibility it was just a phase? Absolutely. It's also just as possible he may not have outgrown it and only gotten more disrespectful, destructive, misogynistic, addicted, and sociopathic- rather than merely a conduct disordered teen.

I'm sorry if my opinion offends you, Bloom, but I make judgements of people's character before I get up close and personal. PTSD has taught me to do so. If it hadn't, I probably wouldn't be alive today. I learned extremely well how to assess a person. Call it an uncanny ability that has been honed through violence from birth. Ever watch Lie To Me? Well......that's me. I can spot a drug addict, liar, misogynist, thief......you name it.......from a mile away.

If there is one thing I have learned it's that first impressions never come around a second time. On a more positive note- I am extremely liberal to the point that my views are called communist by my Fox lovin', died-in-the-wool, closed minded, Republican parents. I've been a hippie, a raver, a criminal, a preacher, an adult, a child, and a complete lunatic. The only thing I've never been is a jock or a lesbian because I'm hate sports and I love men. I've lived in so many places it would make your head spin. I've dated white, black, Latino, Filipino, and everything in between and I'd date each and every one of them again as long as they didn't dress or act like a thug because I know better.

Bloom, again, I'm sorry if I've offended you as that was not my intention. Call me anything you like but just know that every opinion I share comes from an educated point of view based on extensive research or experience.

Personally, I think this whole situation is sad. It's just another part of what's broken with society. I definitely think that changes are needed. Part of these changes are the way media portrays certain groups of people to be celebrities. It's not just thug culture. It's making teen mothers into celebrities culture. It's making Audmars Piguet watches the "it" bling to have because Jay-Z and Beyonce say so culture. It's making Chanel the "it" clothes to wear because Miley says so culture. It's making Bentley the "it" car to drive because Kim Kardashian drives one culture. It's calling women "bitches and 'hoes" because Eminem does culture.

The only time society wasn't influenced by one culture or another is when we were neanderthal hunter-gatherers. Since that time has come and gone, we need to stop making excuses when it is still time to make a difference. That time is when kids are still young enough to be influenced by pro-social role models- not parents who are handing down the same effed up cultural "norms," values, and prejudices.

Until all of society stops looking to celebrities as the "be all, end all" for everything from what they wear to what they drive, then we are going to continue to have problems with impressionable people not having a sense of identity separate from whom they hold up as their idols.

Just my two dollars..........

 

[circe47]

I officially agree to disagree. This whole topic is sort of like politics and religion. Nobody is ever going to be on the same page.

 

[Pietro]

It is rather ironic to see conflict played out here, over differing opinions, where simple respect and an agreement to disagree would suffice.

Personally, I don't mind the debate, as long everyone accepts one basic idea -- that everyone has a right to their own perspective.

I once had a debate with a European who believed that Hitler had been a good influence for Europe. Typically, I don't suffer Nazi's well (even my kids know that daddy gets a little unstable if he sees a swastika or a Ku Klux Klan robe ;) ) But, in this case, the individual was able to discuss the subject politely and reasonably. In the end, we both agreed to disagree. The most important result of this conversation was what I learned from it -- I learned some about how the other side thinks, and why. And that understanding is often what can lead to compromise instead of deadlock, and peace instead of war. At the very least, it leads to respect, which, to me, is far more important that winning any argument. :)

 

[BloomInWinter]

I find your comment telling me to Google appearance to be ignorant and patronizing.

I don't believe targeting human beings by their manner of dress is grounds for confronting someone with a gun. I don't believe people wearing hoodies are thugs. I don't believe people in suits are not thugs. I don't believe manner of dress gives another human being the right to confront someone with a gun.

I used to think I could spot "bad" people a mile away, too.

But I'm better now, and have learned that it is not rational to believe we can be accurate from just looking at someone. Indeed, we can be very wrong about them, especially because our traumatized brains don't always wait for enough information for accurate information.

I agree to disagree with your comments.