Younger Family Member With Suspected Pts And Drug Use.

[HëllaBubz]

I've also asked Anthony about this, but I thought I'd reach out and see what the rest of you think about this, and any advice you might have.
Since I've posted this I have spoken with my bro, and he's said that he's happier drug free after a 'long hard think about what I do want and don't want'.

I'm rather suspicious, and I don't know what to believe. Children of narcissistic parents learn to lie very well, and something is ringing 'off' for me.

I'm the oldest of 3.

My brother just turned 21 about 10 days ago, and the day before his birthday, I got a text at 6am from him, telling me that his mates had given him a puff of shards along with the all night bender they'd been having.

About 12 months ago, they introduced him to weed, and I managed to scare him off using it constantly by giving him the bare bones truth about what happens to someone with substance induced dementia.
It brought him to the point of tears.

I don't know how to explain it, but the mate he is hanging out with (a work colleague on the scaffolding truck they run) reminds me a lot of my ex. Extremely rough around the edges, a bully, intimidating, trigger anger switch, funny as f*ck at the most inappropriate times, alcoholic, druggie, and as my brother puts it "he might be on that shit but he's a f*cken good bloke".

It's interesting that my brother has gone into alcohol and people similar to what I did when I got out of home, as well as sowing his wild oats....as young people do, I just see myself at 17 in him at 21, if that makes sense.

Everything we were told was horrible and would kill us and would destroy our souls, demonizing alcohol, drugs, loose women, all the shit that religious f*cknuts preach about, my brother and I seem to have subconsciously gone out to prove wrong.

I guess that's the hazard of having parents that lie, exaggerate and blow everything out of proportion, narcisstic assholes that enjoy the sound of their own voice to the point where if they ever did have something GOOD to say, we are so sick of the sound of them that we switch off automatically.

I am the last port of call for my brother before he goes out adrift. I answer his questions on sex, STD's, alcohol, bar fights, fixing computers, rent, landlords, food and everything else you can imagine.

Every time he's in shit, I get a call, and find a way to fix the latest mess he's managed to get himself into, because I know he might be able to fix it himself, but he needs to learn why it happened, how it happened, and how to avoid it, rather than just damage control.

When I was in shit, I had no idea how I'd gotten myself into it, all I knew was that everyone judged me, looked down on me, and gave my parents more ammo to make my life a f*cking misery.

He attended a double session with myself and my T about 2 weeks ago, it gave him nightmares for 5 days straight about shit from home.

My T suspects he's buried things fairly well, but there are still elements of PTS there, and it doesn't take much to bring that crap back up to the surface. She helps me support him whilst teaching me to take care of myself, because we both know there's nothing between him and a very slippery slope if I throw my hands up.

She also thinks it would be HIGHLY beneficial for him to go and see a T, because he has a highly addictive nature, the trauma we've both been through makes us even more susceptible.

The problem is, the guy needs a mum and a dad, but at the same time my parents have managed to f*ck up his head badly enough that trying to teach him anything is a VERY careful juggling act.


Narcissists are the worst sort of humans in that they work their poisonous magic, and then spend the rest of the time covering their tracks by planting doubts about all sorts of things in your head, so that taking advice from anyone else is impossible because you've been taught that they are the devil and not to be trusted.

So every time my brother needs to learn something, I have to hold my partner back because I know the cues that my brother gives when he switches off, an automatic response to my parent's self important tirades.


I really need help here, but I don't know what to ask for.

Drugs?
Young guys?
Getting through?
Not burn myself out?
Where is the line?
Parenting?
Recognising symptoms similar to, but not PTSD?

I've got my own little bubs to think about, I've got to make sure I survive whilst taking care of her, but I've seen all to well the damage my parents are willing to let happen to my brother if it means it will be another way to discredit me and break up the bond that he and I have.

They would rather see him suffer or do things illegally than let him take help off me, this is so f*cked and I just don't know where to turn, what to say, or what to do anymore.

I'm only one person recovering from the damage that 2 screwed up narcissists did to me, how am I supposed to undo and help the damage that's been, and being done to him?

 

[DMerish]

Wow, Bubmama -

My first thought is for you and the child you're carrying, and so near to birthing. As much calmness, love and serenity surrounding you right now for your benefit, and especially the benefit of the new little one, needs to be the top priority.

There was a lot to think about in your post. I'm not able to put my thoughts together in a written manner about the issue, at this very moment. But I will . . . Your concern for your brother is obviously very deep and you want to help him.

(((hug))) if you'd like one.

Drew

 

[HëllaBubz]

Thanks for the hug Drew. It's a stressful topic that I need to talk to people about because I'm at a loss right now.

 

[arfie]

"Let go and let God" springs to my mind.

Substance abuse is rampant in my family. Half the family is constantly high, the other half is constantly medicated. I do not know which half is harder to reach or quicker to preach. I am not sure my personal recovery would have been possible if I had not simply detached from the whole, knotty mess and put the focus on my own behaviour.

Detachment does not mean growing callous nor cruel. I am here for them when they, individually, are ready. Detachment simply means I am tending my own recovery and trusting them to tend theirs.

 

[scout86]

I wish I had a really good answer for you!

I think you've done what you can do, at least right now. If he's lying to you, so what? It's his life, to mess up or not as he chooses. I get that you'd rather he made the "right" choices. They are still HIS choices. I'd say, take care of your own stuff, look forward to the impending child, deal with that (which I suspect will be plenty to deal with!). Be there if your brother decides he needs you. Make suggestions when it seems you should, but let him live his own life.

 

[Hashi]

The problem is, the guy needs a mum and a dad,

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean here. That he still needs your/his own mum and dad? If so why, if they are so bad for him? They're not teaching him anything good about how to handle himself and life. It sounds like the opposite. Surely he needs to get away from them?

She also thinks it would be HIGHLY beneficial for him to go and see a T, because he has a highly addictive nature, the trauma we've both been through makes us even more susceptible.

What does your brother think about seeing a T? It seems to me that at this point, at 21, he needs a therapist.

 

[DMerish]

Studies have found in recent years that the human brain doesn't fully develop until much later than formally thought, and not until 25 or so in male brain. Unlike previous theories, it's also been found that the brain can continue to develop through the 30s, 40s and later. Although not the most academic/scientific, here are a couple of links: [DLMURL]http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390443713704577601532208760746[/DLMURL] and http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708

Starting my post with that was a little weird, but I think you'll find the connection to it with the rest of what I write . . .

From what I understand, your parents imposed many of their beliefs and opinions in such a manner that it would make it very difficult to emerge from childhood into a distinct adult individual in one's own right. Doing that is a set up for the emerging adult to become conflicted. As children we instinctively know we're supposed to listen to our parents because they are our primary/first source of love, care and protection (or supposed to be) and that our parents should, instinctively, put the child's care and healthy interests above their own. When that doesn't happen the emerging adult is faced with continuing to concede to the parent's thoughts, beliefs, interests or to fight to become the distinct adult they were/are meant to become. That fight is not comfortable, and some people seek out drugs or other things to cope and cover over any traumas.

You, being the older sister, and having gone through some things your brother is going through, and learning that some of the experiences you've been through weren't the most pleasant (and possibly harmful), would naturally prefer that your brother not have to go through such a tough time. However, each person's process of development is their own and follows their own time table. You're going to be a mom soon.

If you continue to focus on what f_k'd up parents you had you'll keep putting more in your own bucket that justifies how you are rather than who you are and who you wish to become. A circular point of fixation will act like a magnet, that will interfere with your ability to move forward into living the life you want as a distinct, independent adult. Likewise, talking with your brother too much about how f_k'd up your parents were/are will add to his bucket too. The two of you could end up with an us against them sort of mentality. It's sort of a comfort to know one is part of the same muck as somebody else, and that's fine, but I think you'd like to see your brother also become a distinct adult individual in his own right-

I raised four boys pretty much solo. Because of the dynamics of their parent's (dysfunctions, issues and problems) they each went through a process roughly between 20 and 26 similar to what your brother is going through. I believe both sexes go through the process of figuring out who they are and separating from their parents, but also think the process is especially now difficult for young men moving into mature adulthood.

One of the things you're going to find out being a parent is that the toughest part is watching your child suffer, knowing that to some degree the suffering your child experiences is necessary for his/her growth. I think it's also real hard to watch a loved one (sibling, etc.) go through tough times/suffer, not know how to respond or how to help, and not know how to avoid co- dependency.

That being said, one of my core beliefs is that life gives opportunities/situations, particular to the individual, from which one may learn from, grow inwardly, and support others through the sharing of one's resources. Another of my core beliefs is that the best thing someone can do for another when they're going through tough times is be non-judgmental, to trust the process, and convey one's trust and confidence in the person that they have the power and a lot of the knowledge and tools within themselves (or they are able to acquire the knowledge and tools) to navigate the process and live the life and become the person they want.

I know my post is long :sorry: I'm going finish with a bit about my youngest son, the one most like your brother now. When he was 22 he took off for Hawaii for work. He didn't know anyone there. His best friend from childhood joined him after a couple of months. They got drunk a lot (I image they did a lot of other things too), They were arrested, lost their jobs, got kicked out of their apartment, etc. What money they had was spent on bail. They slept on the beach for four nights. The weather was changing to rain and cold. He called asking for $$$. I located the nearest hostel (they provided breakfast and dinner). I made reservations for both of them, paid for their stay for two weeks, and asked the manager also to charge my card an extra $20 a day they were there and to give each "boy" $10 cash each day they stayed. I sent $ to my son directly. Then I told him what I had done, and suggested they each found jobs fast even if it meant dishwashing. I added that I felt that what they were going through was a normal part of growing up, figuring out who they were and what they wanted to become, and that I had full trust and confidence that he and his friend would work things out. My son was pissed that I didn't just send $$$. They got small jobs and returned to the mainland, etc. About a year later he told me he felt severely abandoned by me during his ordeal, and didn't know whether he could ever forgive me. I apologized for not being able to do more for him at the time, that I was sorry he felt that way, and hoped he'd forgive me eventually. I came to his aid from time-to-time afterwards but only in very small $ ways but always as a big point of emotional support, repeating that what he was going through was a process that I had complete trust and confidence that he'd work out. He had the power to make his life what he wanted it to be. If he thought therapy would help, I'd pay for at least the first few sessions.

Fast forward eight years. He's got an awesome life, and is an all around good person. We are very close, but I've always felt a bit of insecurity about whether I had damaged him, whether he'd always connect his past difficulties and feelings of having been abandoned with me forever. I was too scared of the answer to ever broached that subject, but on Thanksgiving I got my answer. Me and his girlfriend were casually talking when the subject of Hawaii came up. He waited until we were done, sat down next to me, put his arm around my shoulder and got my full attention. "Mom, he said, I've never told you thank you for helping me and ___ out when we were in Hawaii. We were f_k'ing crazy! We had some real big problems then and lot of later challenges. ____ and I have talked a lot about the sh_t we've been through, and we are both really thankful for you helping us out when we were in Hawaii and how you've always supported us. You didn't make it easy, but shiz! you always believed in us." Do you still feel like I abandoned you?" I asked. "Oh, hell no mom! Are you kidding? Ah, shit, I should have told you thank you a long time ago, " my son answered.

My point, Bub, (as you already know) you can't do the work that your brother needs to do for himself. If you go with an attitude of positivity and hope all the time he's going to find that unpalatable; over simplified optimism will become almost offensive to him. So give him the simple stuff we all want - unconditional love, non-judgment, and confidence that he's got the power to find his own answers and make his own choices in making his life what he wants. Point the way, rather than telling him what he needs to do, and don't assume what's helped on your healing journey will necessarily be the thing he needs to do. That's the kind of behavior your parents displayed, isn't it?

I find the Serenity Prayer helps me in many areas of my life.

(((hugs again)))
Drew - sorry 'bout the length :rolleyes:

 

[HelenB]

I'm really sorry to hear things are so hard for your brother and how things have effected you both. I agree with that others have said that you have done so much for him and that he really does have to be ready himself to make those choices and decisions for himself as to whether he is in a place to face all the things.

I know you said he had nightmares for five days after he attended a session with you and you therapist and also know for myself that I really had to be in a place where I was secure enough before I could begin to face all the things from my past, and know that he really does have to be ready if he is going to face it.

I also have siblings - one of whom is my twin. I moved away to boarding school when I was eleven, as I got a state maintained place because of the situation at home, whereas he stayed at home, but when we were teenagers we both lived in the YMCA together and then had a flat together. Around that time we were both pretty involved in drugs and I was also supporting him a lot. I became involved in church and began to sort my life out, and one of the hardest things I had to do was move out of the flat we shared and out of the drug scene, as I knew that I couldn't stay there and continue to stay off drugs. I found it very hard as I knew he had noone else and he depended on me so much, but I just knew I did have to do it and that I had to sort myself out. Though it was hard he did eventually see how my life had changed and made the decision for himself to give up drugs and eventually settled down and is now married and has children himself too. He is still very different from me and has never even able to face the reality of our childhood and just tries to shut it all out and has many issues with anger and things which come out in other ways, but in reality I know that though I still love him so much and would always still be there for him, that the way I had to put down the burden of carrying him myself was so important for both of us, and for me I know I had to effectively put him in God's hands, because I could not do it myself.

I know you said about how he just needs a mum and dad so much, and know you are right, that that is what he did need, but though, as it has already been pointed out, your parents were and still are unable to give him that, it is not something you can ever take on as you do have your own self and child, who also need looking after and I really do believe that being alongside him and loving and supporting him the best you can do is important, but that ultimately he does have to take that on for himself, and often think that the most healing can come when people as individuals can begin to love and look after themselves too as well as accessing support from appropriate others too.

I don't know if that will be much help to you or how clearly I have written it as I have loads of other things going round my head too at the moment, but did want to reply after I read it as I really feel for you in the things you are going through and love and concern you have for him, and really hope that as he can watch how you come through, it can be an inspiration to him and he will be able to move forwards too.

God bless
Helen

 

[Britt.f7]

He's 21. He needs to find his own way, which may not be yours. You can still be there for him. Your priority is now this baby and yourself.

I went through my early rowdy years, about 17 to 21. My sister did. My niece now is. I'm here for her, as I was for my sister, but they had to find their own way. This doesn't mean you can't show your concern for your brother to him. It doesn't mean you can't bring up therapy to him. Walk cautiously regarding your parents because it doesn't necessarily sound like he is ready to hear in regards to them. I know my sister never was. There are things I just can't discuss with her. Not because she didn't experience similar things to what I did, but because she viewed them differently. We still have a decent relationship, not without issues at times, but I know her, and my, limits.

This isn't easy to watch. But I think you are doing good by showing that hey you are there if needed and that you love him.

 

[HëllaBubz]

"Let go and let God" springs to my mind.

Thank you arfie, although I must admit that I hate that saying.....although the saying applies to a spectrum of responses from other people, the ones in my life chose to stand back and let shit happen rather than do anything.

Make suggestions when it seems you should, but let him live his own life.

Yeah, pretty much. I know if I push it too far, he'll shut off. And besides, I'm not fond enough of my own voice to keep talking after the brick wall goes up, I hate wasted effort and that would be the epitomy of it.

They're not teaching him anything good about how to handle himself and life.

Surely he needs to get away from them?

No they aren't, and yes he does! But as much as I know it helped me immensely, even at this early stage, there needs to be a "click" in order to have someone start off a process that has inner core drive behind it.
I'm forever telling my partner that just because he says something doesn't mean that it's going to "click" or resonate with me, if it gets said by someone else later, in a time, place and way that resonates with me, then I'll remember it. Otherwise, it just fades into the background because it not applicable or a useful building tool for me.

It seems to me that at this point, at 21, he needs a therapist.

Vs a psychiatrist? I think he could use one, but he's not at the stage where he's ready to see a psychiatrist or counselor, I think it will be a few years yet. It took 5 years with my partner to get him to actively participate in seeing a counselor, before that was blank and outright denial that we ever needed one, would need one, or should need one, and that I was the f*cked up one, not him.

It's taken a long time for him to realize that there are many, many things below the surface that are lurking, but he's so used to "switching off" that something can be there for a long time, and only when he "switches on" again to some extent, does he notice it. I can't change how he feels about or looks at something, but if I weave together his own little Freudian realizations that he would never recognise as part of something bigger, then over time he comes to realizations or becomes more amenable to things.

Walk cautiously regarding your parents

Not because she didn't experience similar things to what I did, but because she viewed them differently. We still have a decent relationship, not without issues at times, but I know her, and my, limits.

Yes, I agree. And that is why I've stepped away from my sister, and realised that I may never be able to have a relationship with her because of the level of input my mother and father have. I also have a silent agreement with my brother not to talk about the parents if we can help it, and I have to tread very carefully when explaining things to him about them.

So far though, I must admit that I've been (from my own perspective) very successful in reading him, and wording things in such a way that don't set off the sensitive spots that our raising has created in either himself or me.

When that doesn't happen the emerging adult is faced with continuing to concede to the parent's thoughts, beliefs, interests or to fight to become the distinct adult they were/are meant to become. That fight is not comfortable, and some people seek out drugs or other things to cope and cover over any traumas.

Guilty as charged. And truthfully, I can't stop his trek down that path, but I CAN help guide it to something that is as numbing but less destructive.

The two of you could end up with an us against them sort of mentality.

Yes, something I try hard to avoid. Unless he has the "click" and "aha" or "I've definitely, truly and completely f*cking had it with this" moment(s), then nothing I say is going to help.
Both of us can vent to the other about something f*cked up the parents have done, and the other person is there to listen, but other than that we only occasionally talk about them, and I try to let him lead the conversation.

Being part of something that created a specific "click" moment that you were aiming for in another person is the most satisfying thing you can image. I'll elaborate on that in a moment.

Another of my core beliefs is that the best thing someone can do for another when they're going through tough times is be non-judgmental, to trust the process, and convey one's trust and confidence in the person that they have the power and a lot of the knowledge and tools within themselves (or they are able to acquire the knowledge and tools) to navigate the process and live the life and become the person they want.

I agree with that, and the way I show that in my dealing with him is that I provide a few options from my point of view, and different avenues that he might take, and then step back and let him decide. There is no point shoving people down a particular doorway, because often your perspective plus theirs can often equal a doorway that neither of you saw prior to the discussion.

And pushing people in a particular direction is just f*cking arrogant, and I wish to smack all people that do it. (do my parent issues come through in that statement? :eek::p

only in very small $ ways but always as a big point of emotional support, repeating that what he was going through was a process that I had complete trust and confidence that he'd work out.

over simplified optimism will become almost offensive to him.

True. A little bit of $ support to facilitate an emotional growth and experience goes a long way. Money has it's limits, growth and experience does not.

the simple stuff we all want - unconditional love, non-judgment, and confidence that he's got the power to find his own answers and make his own choices in making his life what he wants. Point the way, rather than telling him what he needs to do, and don't assume what's helped on your healing journey will necessarily be the thing he needs to do. That's the kind of behavior your parents displayed, isn't it?

I love how I don't have to explain myself in massive detail with you Drew, you have the understanding there. And honestly, it's even more appreciated because sometimes the "devil" (trigger) truly is in the detail, and I don't end up uncovering that devil.

know that he really does have to be ready if he is going to face it.

your parents were and still are unable to give him that, it is not something you can ever take on

Yes, and as I said to my T, which she accepted, is that I didn't think he was at a time and place where he would search out a T, or actively visit on. He's still in the unreliable phase, where floating from one alcoholic flavor to another is his version of reliability and predictability.
I can't be a parent to him, but I think I'll just watch from the background, and pipe up occasionally when I see potential for things REALLY going awry.

Now, I did say that I'd elaborate on a point I made earlier about facilitating a specific "aha" moment in someone.

As some of you know, I estranged my father permanently about 8 weeks ago. My mother's sneaky and manipulative behaviour in haranguing my partner via FB messages led to her being estranged also, and my youngest sister (almost 19) was the collateral.

My father contacted my partner through FB with an offer of Oaks Day tickets (day after the biggest horse racing event in Australia).

It was the usual bullshit.......just want to do something nice for you both, can't use the tickets ourselves because alcohol and boozefests aren't our scene, just take it as an anonymous donation, don't tell R where they came from etc.

My response? eye twitch and minor flipping of shit.
Pointed out to my other half the following......

Taking anything from father ALWAYS has strings attached, is bad idea, and will create a weak link which allows him to think that he's off the hook, and things will go back to normal eventually. Oh, and if you take anything off him, he will see it as a go-ahead to try start making you feel grateful, and start asking for favors again.

I want NOTHING to do with my father, that includes anything from him.
He's trying to perpetuate the same lying, manipulative and sneaky behavior in our relationship that he has in his marriage.
He's trying to create bullshit between myself and my partner because he knows my OH and I talk about everything. So if my other half lies to me, my father gets away with having driven a wedge between us, my OH cops all the shit for lying, and my father's work is done.

The offer was purely selfish, because at that stage I was 36 weeks pregnant, and the f*cktard obviously hadn't( or had) thought about the fact that I can't/won't drink alcohol. But in going to the event, it would make me look bad, and then he could go around saying that I went heavily pregnant to a (supposedly) unsafe and boozy event.

If my father sees himself as the only person in the world who can give me advice, guide me and do what's right for me, then anything that threatens or disallows the manifestation of that belief is a threat, and must be undermined and dealt with accordingly.

And the only 2 supports I have left are my partner and brother.

So I sent a text venting to my bro about it, and he contacted the old man to see WTF was going on. And of course the old man spun his bullshit about how I only think the worst, he was only trying to be nice, the tickets were expensive blah blah blah blah.

And so my bro got back on the phone to me, and roasted me. So over 2 hours on the phone, I basically had to slowly and gingerly work my way through all of the above things that I'd listed to my OH, and by the end of it, my bro had gone from raging at me to literally, "holy f*ck he (father) got me again." "I'd never even thought of all that, and now that you've explained it, it all makes sense."

He was literally apologetic, but as I said to him, I can't be angry at you for the work that someone else has done. I merely angry at the results and how he manipulates you. I'll never be angry at you for being manipulated by someone who is a master at it, it's not your fault and it never will be.

And one of the things that led on from that was him agreeing to come see my T with me, to see what I actually did, because part of the undermining my father does is always to take swipes at my PTSD, troubled history and the fact that I see a T.

My parting words to my brother were;

"part of a narcissistic parent's role is to keep you ignorant, because education means loss of power and control on their part. If you're stupid, you're controllable and will do what they say."
"Therapy educates me, and places the blame back squarely on the person it belongs to, the dominating, overbearing, ignorance perpetuating asshole that raised us."
"As long as we talk, you stay educated, and you can see what he's doing, and he knows that. That's why he works so hard to discredit me."

 

[Abstract]

One of the best decisions I made was to not to discuss my difficulties with my parents to my siblings, especially in a venting way.

Really, unless you are in exactly the same place at the same time, have had and still have the same relationship and have processed it to the same extent it is usually going to cause trouble. When your brother is still in contact with your father and you are not then I can only see negative consequences from drawing him into your relationship dynamics with your parents. It sounds like the last thing he needs and he may not be able to know that. It also sounds like it just stirs everything up and causes triangulation for you. Just my opinion.

The other thing that occurred to me is if he is asking you for your input such as this

constantly by giving him the bare bones truth about what happens to someone with substance induced dementia. It brought him to the point of tears.

or if you are taking it upon yourself to do it whenever you can.

I get a call, and find a way to fix the latest mess he's managed to get himself into, because I know he might be able to fix it himself, but he needs to learn why it happened, how it happened, and how to avoid it, rather than just damage control.

I really think you need to look at the underlying messages you are showing in this statement and others. Rather than showing a giving of input and trusting him to learn and grow you are taking ownership of any success and are taking ownership of making him change. You really do need to stop seeing this as you fixing the situations and pulling the strings so to speak.

but he's not at the stage where he's ready to see a psychiatrist or counselor,

This is the one thing I would work on whenever you can. This is what he needs to do.

I have to say that I too am unsure about the statement about him needing his parents but not wanting them. What he needs it seems is self esteem and to start being able to look after himself.

The last thing that I would really watch out for here is seeing the similarities between you rather than the differences. He is a different and unique person. His progress is likely to be very different to yours. I think it is extremely important to remember that as it tends to come through and often feels invasive even if the person does not realise it at the time. Just my take on this!

 

[HëllaBubz]

Rather than showing a giving of input and trusting him to learn and grow you are taking ownership of any success and are taking ownership of making him change.

I'm not sure I agree with this. In fact, the only reason he comes back to me for advice is because I allow him to take full ownership of the situation,and merely provide other avenues that he may not have thought about.

Sometimes he thinks of something I haven't as a result of talking to me, other times he chooses to go with his original choice, and either way he knows I'll let him do what he needs to do.

When my brother left home he knew NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING about

• Finances
• Alcohol
• Conflict resolution
• Feeding himself
• Dealing with workplace bullies
• Dealing with being underpaid
• How to tell when servicemen for his car were lying
• How to vote
• Why to vote
• Medication
• Sleeping patterns
• Self management
• Education and its role/importance
• How mobile phones work/how to get and use one
• Credit cards
• Loans
• Car/House insurance
• How to live with people that weren't controlling him

The list goes on and on and on and on.
I spent the first year with my partner teaching him about this stuff, and if it applied to things he needed to do, we taught him about it, and then stepped back and let him apply it himself, or not, as he chose.

We just made it clear that we could help him so far, and the rest of it was up to him. As were the consequences if we had educated him about something, and he'd chosen to do differently.
Until he got on his feet, we supported him financially, emotionally and materially and he in return gave us nothing, which is exactly what we expected.

My partner and I knew full well that helping him out of home wasn't going to be easy, but we took it on anyway because he deserved to have the choice to explore all his options, not the ones my parents chose for him.

So when he moved into a shared house, serviced his car under my father's instructions, f*cked up the car and had to pay for it, then literally was falling asleep at work because he could afford only one meal a day, which was a shake, I made his lunches and drinks, as well as breakfast, and he picked them up every night or morning. Sure enough, his work performance improved, and my dad took all the credit for how well my brother was doing at work and study.

My father helping him buy his first car that couldn't be insured because it was a repairable write-off from hail damage, and sure enough, about 3 weeks after we had taught him about how insurance works, and why it's so important, he wrote off his car, and would have lost his job and been homeless had my partner not stepped in and given him cash to buy a new car.

When I called my father to ask for a car (he has 3 plus a motorbike) for my brother, I was told that the car had been promised to some missionaries and they would be borrowing the car for 3 days, so we would have to foot it ourselves, and it wasn't his problem.

Never mind the fact that it was my father's fault for teaching my brother to drive like advanced cops do (my father is/was an advanced driver trainer for ambulances and cops), getting him to buy a car that couldn't be insured, and teaching him that if he ever hit anyone else there were legal/illegal ways to try and get out of it.

My point is, I do not, and will not ever take kudos for my brother's successes, anything he's done is because he took what we said, and made it work for himself. Any mistakes that he has made I've had some share in, and some I haven't.

My main question here, is what can or should I say or do right now, that would give him a moment's pause to think a little longer. That's all I ask. Anything after that is his choice, and I'll respect that as I've always done.

I have to say that I too am unsure about the statement about him needing his parents but not wanting them. What he needs it seems is self esteem and to start being able to look after himself.

I honestly don't understand this first part at all. He needs a set of parents that will give him the skills to deal with basic life as an adult, what he (we) have/had is parents that deliberately kept us ignorant so that they could control all of those aspects.
Since he has gotten out of home, his self esteem has boomed, and so has his confidence. And he has attributed that, unprompted, to all of the things that he learned whilst he was living with us.

And I'll say to you now what I said to him.......I don't want you to be grateful to me, they were things you needed and deserved, and it took me 3 times longer than you have to learn them because I had no one when I left. If I've made life a tiny bit easier in the first transition, then I'm pleased because that's all I ever wanted.
It's always been about him, and his needs in a particular time and moment, and when I've been told that he doesn't see eye to eye with something I say, I'm fine with that, and let him know that I'm here if he needs me.

His progress is likely to be very different to yours.

I think I've made it pretty clear that I'm well aware of that, and that's why I've been asking if I should do anything, or if I should just leave it. I am more concerned because my brother and I are so very alike that we finish each other sentences, think the same thing at the same time, and communicate almost flawlessly pretty much all the time, right down to the reactions we have when we are stressed, anxious or threatened.

I think I have reason for concern for him, and yet I think that the fact that I'm asking on here before doing anything shows that I recognize that for all our similarities, we still have our difference of outlook and personalities.

Regardless of anything anyone takes from this thread, I think it's important to note that I don't ring him up and start talking down his ear, I wait til I get a call or text, and then ask him what he needs or wants from me. Sometimes it's just him saying Hi, and wanting to catch up, other times it's him needing support and guidance for something as simple as how to buy a TV.