What Are The Main Differences Between Ptsd And Complex Ptsd?

[Lady of Longbourn]

in that she believes 70% of those diagnosed with BPD meet the criteria for CPTSD … but that 30% of people diagnosed with BPD do not have a history of any trauma.

Personally, I think she is right in this

Are you saying you agree with that lady?

Then this would be contradictory:

In other words - any symptoms of "BPD" are only there WHEN the PTSD is there.

Some of us use a qualifier like 'vet PTSD' or 'car accident PTSD' or 'CSA PTSD' (child sexual abuse) to describe our experiences of PTSD - and that is all I see when someone uses the term 'CPTSD' - it's simply another qualifier,

Don't agree. Describing trauma yes but it doesn't change the PTSD which the first part of the quote seems to imply. I really have seen it used as a sort of 'club' or I should say more like a 'us' and 'them'. Otherwise we would not being having this discussion!

I've known people on here to be quite snarky and refer to those who use the term to describe their experiences,

Again, don't agree...How many times is it said that self-dignoseing is not an option? How important all that is?

Really CPTSD doesn't make any sense.

 

[NovemberStar]

General really makes it sound like less...

I resent that implication also.

(And I am in the 'CPTSD exists' camp! ;) ).

Just to point out, NOT everyone who identifies with 'CPTSD' believes they are 'worse' than anyone else with PTSD.

I'd find it offensive for that above statement to be used in relation to any of us - i.e., if the poster had put 'you wouldn't treat a vet with PTSD the same as someone with 'general PTSD'', I'd be just as offended.

 

[NovemberStar]

@Ayesha

Sorry - you've lost me on that…

Did you mean, when I said 'the BPD is only there when the PTSD is there' bit, I was referring to my own experience, not referring to anything Judith Herman has said.

What I meant was - if the diagnosis of BPD was correct, that if I did have BPD, then I find it incredibly strange that I'd only ever fit the criteria for having BPD, when I had simultaneous PTSD symptoms. 12 years with no PTSD symptoms and 'no BPD' and suddenly, when the PTSD comes back, so does the (previous) symptoms of 'BPD'.

My understanding of personality disorders is that they are constant - you either have one or you do not; they are not something that 'appear's under stress, goes away, then re-appears again. Yes, you can 'learn to live with it' but it doesn't ever 'go away' like mine apparently did! And that the symptoms were ONLY ever there WITH the PTSD, only seems to confirm that I never had a personality disorder to begin with - I was misdiagnosed.

What would have been an alternative diagnosis? Probably PTSD and Dissociative disorder - although those don't fully explain what was happening for me.

IF CPTSD had been an 'official' diagnosis back in the 1990s when I presented for psych care, then that is what would have been ticked to fit all the particular symptoms and experiences I had back then. (As it would now, no doubt, also).

HOWEVER - as we all know, it is not an 'official' diagnosis, so my 'label' is 'officially PTSD. I might be diagnoses with Dissociative Disorder on top of it, when I next see my psych dr. Not that that changes much in how my treatment will be.

I guess I can only speak for myself - I do not see 'CPTSD' as a 'club' and I would feel offended if I did see anyone else view it that way.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

@NovemberStar My bad...I misunderstood most of your post then.

 

[anthony]

Because I was diagnosed with BPD in my later teens.

I concur, that if you got diagnosed as a teenager, then once again, it was misdiagnosed when mental health was even more guess than it is today, as decades ago they didn't factor that teenagers are hormonal, irrational and much more, which is why personality disorders aren't given today typically until adulthood, to ensure the personality has finished forming and the issues are actually present in a fixed personality.

 

[anthony]

I also believe one of the major issues with CPTSD attempted diagnostic spectrum, is that due to aiming it directly at women with the "affect / regulation" vote, women are more emotional than men, and this specifically targets a woman's "normal" emotional spectrum when distressed as a majority. That isn't a symptom, that is a normal female emotional behaviour to a highly distressing event / set of events.

 

[anonymous]

IF CPTSD was an official diagnosis, then I would have meet all the criteria for it, and still do.

Which set of criteria? As is seen from this discussion and many others, there is no set, definitive criteria for CPTSD. Among those professionals who actually diagnose CPTSD, the criteria clearly varies simply because it isn't actually a diagnosis. Even with current "official" illnesses, the symptoms and criteria evolve over time as professionals gain better understanding and the DSM is updated. What may be the criteria for an illness this year may change in five or ten years. So if there aren't presently any actual criteria for CPTSD, and it has been described as having varying criteria depending on who you talk to, how could you possibly know if you would meet the criteria if it ever were made to be an official diagnosis?

 

[junglegirl]

I don't get it. Why would anyone imply that their ptsd is worse it is all the same. We all suffer such similar symptoms that we should support each other in whatever the heck we choose to call ourselves and it is not anyone else's business to argue with us about what is our experience. Don't we have enough to deal with in our own experiences with people who misunderstand us than to fight amongst ouselves-dividing us rather than supporting one another? I think so.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I guess a lot of my confusion comes in when you look at the (unofficial) criteria of CPTSD and the official criteria of PTSD. Uhm, there's practically no overlap, right? Ok, well there is the mood issue, but a number of the criteria of basic PTSD isn't even listed in the criteria for CPTSD, so doesn't it make more sense that CPTSD should actually be called something different, and only be an "add on" disorder to PTSD, with a completely different name? Oh wait, that's sort of the direction they've decided to go in... I can't help but think that a LOT of the issue is simply in Herman's poor choice in naming it "CPTSD" when its not merely a complex version of PTSD. If it were a "complex" version of PTSD, then it would have ALL the diagnostic criteria of PTSD + more. And, as it stands right now, that's not how the disorder is described. I'd go even further as to say that one could in fact present with the attributes of "CPTSD" yet be diagnostically free of PTSD! That is, not present with enough symptoms to be diagnosed with PTSD. Really, does this do any good to say it's PTSD when the symptomology is so different?

 

[NovemberStar]

@Ayesha You're ok - not 'bad' ;)

@anthony - yes, the misdiagnosis did a lot of harm to me - I was instantly 'labelled' and the 'treatment' for BPD 20 years ago was simply to not treat - no meds (for depression), no 'attention' (i.e. - telling your care provider's you were suicidal was simply seen as 'attention seeking' and you would be ignored for fear of 'encouraging it'), and thought of as 'very manipulative' and 'lying'. I am not kidding - on the times I felt incredibly depressed, suicidal thoughts and feelings and telephoned for help, the response I was given was "well, what do you expect us to do about it?! If you want to take your life, that's up to you, we aren't going to try to stop you!".

I'ms sure many of you can imagine how awful that would be, and how damaging it was, to be treated that way - no health professional would (you'd hope) dream of actively ignoring or dismissing suicidality or depression in someone diagnosed with PTSD.

Ironically, the very first psychiatrist 'treating' me who did not believe anti-depressants would be of any good for me at all (and refused to trial me on some) killed himself less than two weeks later.

I was part of the problem in my misdiagnosis, because I wasn't able to articulate what was happening for me - I knew I dissociated, but I did not now the 'other strange things' happening to me were flashbacks. The flashbacks I was having back then were not strongly related to one particular, clear incident - much more subtle than 'vivid memories' of a particular trauma, and even today, knowing what they are, it is very difficult to articulate a lot of the time. But that they did not even consider PTSD as a possible diagnose beggars belief - I multiple events that happened to me that could be considered traumatic - perhaps the biggest 'clue' being I had walked into the room and witnessed the sudden, fatal heart attack of my mother when I was aged 10.

I agree Anthony about the targeting of women and how some experiences might be different - that is the key issue behind misdiagnosing women with PTSD as having a personal disorder. WHen I was told I had BPD, men with the same or similar issues would never be diagnosed with BPD - they would often be told they had schitzo-affective disorder, bi polar, or antisocial personality disorder. I guess why 'CPTSD' is seemingly targeted towards women, is due to it being women who have predominantly been misdiagnosed as having a personality disorder when in actual fact, they have PTSD. (some of course might have both, but I really do believe most women with PTSD who have been told they also have BPD, do NOT actually have a 'personality disorder'). Basicvally, I think its over-diagnosed (BPD) and in most cases, CPTSD is a better fit (yes, I know, it doesn't exist as a diagnosis).

IF CPTSD had been in the DSM 20 years ago, I think that is the diagnosis the Drs would have come up with for me. Would it have changed how I was treated? Absolutely! Why wasn't I diagnosed with PTSD then? Because they didn't recognize in me, the symptoms of it, as I presented - and because I was not able to articulate what it was that was happening to me at the time.

 

[anthony]

Why wasn't I diagnosed with PTSD then? Because they didn't recognize in me, the symptoms of it, as I presented - and because I was not able to articulate what it was that was happening to me at the time.

This is the exact issue... they aren't even the same diagnoses and don't comprise the same symptoms, which is why I think they screwed up trying to call it CPTSD to begin with. They have attempted to cite it as complex PTSD, when the symptoms aren't similar, and all they've done is try to mimic the clustered approach of the PTSD diagnosis, then cite vastly different symptoms to it.

It just doesn't make any sense at all. There are lots of clustered diagnoses, none of which claim PTSD in their name, or vice versa. This was their (experts) undoing IMHO.

Now we have the trauma and stressor category, these experts have a real chance of getting this listed more aptly as something like "complex trauma disorder" than trying to ride the coat tails of the PTSD diagnosis. Because they cite so many symptoms about ongoing trauma being the cause, then that isn't really "post-traumatic" as actually "ongoing traumatic" and this was a fatal mistake for this having recognition to cover complex trauma adequately.

By several persons own admissions, as your own above, you don't really fit PTSD diagnostic criterion and your suffering isn't specific to post traumatic. Your symptoms are due to ongoing traumatic, and often during childhood. Saying that, it isn't isolated to childhood and ongoing trauma occurs to adults where their personality misaligns due to the significance of trauma, such as POW's, longevity torture and captivity cases as adults.

There is no "post-traumatic" in those cases, it is "all-traumatic" more aptly. With the new categorisation structure, they have so much more room for recognition now without trying to coat-tail another disorder with inaccuracies. Complex Trauma Disorder. Neat and clean, aptly describes the problem and can combine personality problems with other symptomatic ones, without conflict.

You heard it here first people... :eek: :ninja: :coffee:

 

[NovemberStar]

Which set of criteria?

As I said, I don't go around saying I have CPTSD - I don't hold onto any particular set of criteria - the criteria I was referring to however, was that which Judith Herman wrote about … it's been a long time since I looked at it, I couldn't even tell you what it was about the list she had in one of her articles - I just know that reading that one bit she wrote, It all clicked - THAT is how they came up with BPD as my diagnosis all those years ago, and THAT particular set of symptoms she described explained (in my head) how I experience PTSD.

@junglegirl - I hope you (along with others) can differentiate between those who might say they believe there is such a thing as 'CPTSD' (while recognizing it is not an official diagnosis), and who might say they relate to the particular set of symptoms 'CPTSD' might include, with those that infer they are 'more special' or 'more traumatized' than someone who doesn't either relate to or 'fit' the CPTSD mould.

I totally agree with you on what you said - we ALL have PTSD. That is the only really important thing about it.

(Although I do understand why some who say they have CPTSD might feel very sensitive to having their feelings and experiences dismissed or invalidated whenever the argument of 'but CPTSD isn't even a real thing!' As would anyone of us who has ever been told 'oh you don't have PTSD! what you went through wasn't even that bad!').

I should probably stop speaking for anyone else than myself though - sorry if I've some across that way ;) I can only speak for myself, and my view on it. Not so long ago I was upset the latest DSM didn't include CPTSD as a diagnosis - I do think one day it might be. But either way I don't actually 'care' anymore. What is important for me, is that I know what happened in my life and how it has affected me, and THANK GOD I was able to be diagnosed correctly - eventually.

I guess my only hope would be is that clinicians get much better at being able to work with whatever criteria are in any DSM or the equivalent, to PROPERLY diagnose PTSD. Because I am willing to bet, even 20 years later, if i presented with the symptoms I did back then, in today's climate, some Drs would still diagnose me as having BPD - although thankfully I think how health professionals respond to someone with BPD has changed, with better models of care. Because to be dismissed and written off as 'attention seeking' and 'manipulative' when you have PTSD, is truly an awful awful thing - and very damaging. If adding CPTSD or adding to some of the symptoms of it (and not adding a different category) would lead to more accurate diagnosis, then I guess I would be in favor of it being included.

But I know that doesn't change anything for me in my real life. I still have PTSD. I still don't have any more of a personality disorder now as I did 20 years ago when I was misdiagnosed. I still have a lot of work to do in therapy, and its still SUCKS!