Still Running

[Pencil]

What really helped me, but may not help you, was to withdraw completely and read. I have two 'manuals': Sun Tzu's The art of War, and Robert Greene's 33 Strategies of War. Yeah, I know, even this sounds paranoid and crazy. Anyway. You can't keep doing what you've always done. You have to realize that they know you and know your weak spots. You have to get it into your head that you need to regroup and start strategizing. I was a victim for nearly 7 years before I stopped defending and started attacking strategically. And part of the 'attacking' strategy was dropping from sight ('Disappear into the void' a la Robert Greene), and forcing them ( I have one main stalker, and a vicious side-kick) to come after me. This gave me the opportunity to prove stalking. They thought I was scared - I was setting a trap. I'm rambling, I know, I don't want to go into detail here. You have to start reading about the mentality of stalkers, and what you can do about it. Go to the following site, for example:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/.

But you have to look for ways in which to empower yourself. Right now your BEST weapon is that they are self-assured in they know you - so you HAVE to change, so that they will act on what they think they know about you. The last sentence does not express what I'm trying to say, but I'm sure you'll get the idea.

And although all of this is a dangerous game, it is also deeply satisfying when you start to gain ground. I'm very close to winning Round X. I'm not naive, it's not going to be all over, but I've won a lot of ground, and I'm starting to prove my 'sanity' to the powers that be. You can only do this if you stay very rational, have a paper trail, and have evidence.

 

[shimmerz]

@KwanYingirl. I appreciate and hear what you are saying - however - having working in Digital Forensics for years and knowing the legal system the way I do because of that - I know that information - if you know how to get it - can be gotten regardless of HIPPA rules and regulations. It isn't necessarily the rules that are faulty but the people who enforce them. I will bring attention again to the fact that this lady at OHIP simply asked for my birthday and was willing to talk about anything and everything to do with my file. Everything. So many people know my birthday. If they had asked form SIN number, they would have had that too. They have all of my ID information. So anyone woman could have called and said that they were me. Trust me, I had services turned off at the house, password protected by 'me' when actually it was not me at all. I didn't know the password that someone else put on my account so they wouldn't talk to me - leaving me to sit in a dark house waiting for the next terror to come (and it always did). No phone, no electricity, no alarm system. Just a sitting duck. When you know how to play the game, it is easy to play. People like us just don't know how to think that way.

I am not saying this for any other reason than to help those that may fall into this position somewhere along the way. My biggest mistake was trusting the police would do their job, that if I held an account that I would have access to it, that someone in power would understand that my life was at risk. Please take no offense - so many people believe in these 'procedures' but people who know them know how to get around them easily.

@Pencil - I will absolutely look at what you have sent. I need to do this right this time. I know that if I keep running I will perpetuate my defensive behaviours which will feed the PTSD. I can't let that happen. Thank you so much for this information and your experiences. It must be difficult for you to share as I am sure it touches a triggery spot for you. So much gratitude.

This thread (and going back on my meds) has helped me tremendously. Please, if anyone else has any other ideas please feel free to share. Everyone is helping - even those that I say 'nope, tried that', because it is helping me to understand that I have done all the right things - that I defended myself as well as possible. Seriously, you are making a tremendous difference. I feel a little more grounded today and I am sure that is because of all (each and every one) of you have given such good information and perspectives.

 

[Pencil]

One more thought. My father taught me to play chess when I was quite small. For some reason I played only defensively, which meant that I never won a single game, but could defend so well that some games lasted many hours. I had a defensive mindset, not only in chess, but in life. It occurred to me one day that I was 'playing' life exactly the same way I played chess - subconsciously I saw myself as a sitting duck who was bound to lose in the end. It was difficult to start thinking and acting strategically. I think years of abuse makes one eschew any form of attack, strategy, winning, flexing muscles, etc etc. I realized winning made me feel BAD! And, I realized what a programmed victim I was. I suspect you can't imagine beating these assholes at their own game. I suspect you don't believe you can outwit them. I suspect you think you don't have the right to.

And this brings me to your safe place - perhaps you can't find a safe place because you can't imagine that you won't be tracked down to that place, that it will, in the end, inevitably be violated. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please). I suspect you can't stand enclosed spaces as that would trap you. One of the many eye-openers in Greene's book was the idea that isolation is dangerous - and he gives many historical examples. You have to mentally stop fleeing, and turn around to get ready to face them (although not physically). You have to start a deliberate process of getting the right people on your side - it's a very slow process but it can be done. You have to look at ways to protect yourself with technology - alarms, cameras, recorders, etc. Start requesting official documents. Do whatever you can to stop feeling like a victim, and to start feeling like a player. They are bound to make mistakes, and when they do, make sure you get the evidence. One common trait / symptom in victims is that they see their abusers as omnipotent. And the first thing you have to do is to get it through your skull that, yes they are dangerous, yes, they have power, yes they will abuse that power, yes, they are probably evil, but they are NOT omnipotent. And, they have become self-assured, self-congratulatory and complacent.

 

[shimmerz]

For some reason I played only defensively

That is how I have played this all along. I thought it was getting me somewhere but obviously not at the end of the day. They are willing to come at me with any perceived provocation. I was very good at defensive maneuvers and when I determined it was time to be on the offensive I was taken to hell and back - just confirming that I didn't have the capacity to fight against such people. My mind just doesn't work this way. I believe your links will help me to see things differently and give me more options. I can't seem to get past 'I can just react to what is happening and not stop it.' This will need to change.

And this brings me to your safe place - perhaps you can't find a safe place because you can't imagine that you won't be tracked down to that place, that it will, in the end, inevitably be violated.

Correct. This I believe was instilled in me before the age of two when I was moved to 20 different foster homes. I had no control and just suffered through it with each move affected me in more profound and damaging ways. When my adopted parents got ahold of me I was freezing in the house for extended periods of time, pulling out my hair, biting myself until there was blood.

I suspect you can't stand enclosed spaces as that would trap you.

Yes. I am now pacing inside the house - running again to sleep in my car, needing to escape.

isolation is dangerous

It feels safe but I know I have to challenge this. So very difficult. Thus the agoraphobia.

You have to mentally stop fleeing, and turn around to get ready to face them

Yes, and physically. I do both. I actually withdraw mentally but my legs take me physically in my most chaotic moments. I get this logically but my primal takes over and I can't see any other way out. This is why I am willing to give it all up so that I don't have to flee anymore. It makes no sense in my own self care but I believe self care is a higher brain function which I cannot access in this case. Yet.

You have to start a deliberate process of getting the right people on your side - it's a very slow process but it can be done.

Done. Now I have to trust them. That is difficult when they minimize these things.

but they are NOT omnipotent.

They have ruined my life. Shattered it. It seems like the more I try to protect myself the worse it becomes. I am not certain how to change my beliefs on this one. I believe your information that you forwarded may help this. Thank you so much. :hug:

My SO says live your life. I know he will help guide me but I must do the work - I know that. I am now back on meds and that is helping to clear my brain and not make me so reactive. Knowing that some understand and are not dismissing this is helping more than I can say. Hearing others give advice that I have followed along the years is validating that I did all that I could and then some. Your idea to change my mindset and take control is the key to this all. I get that. Very prudent advice. Thank you so much. Each of you.

 

[Pencil]

That is difficult when they minimize these things.

Yes, they will, always. Be prepared for that. That is the nature of the beast, but don't let it put you off. Be rational, be 'sane', do their paperwork for them.

Can you get a fake address for a while? Sign a lease on a place that is little more than a dog kennel, but an address nonetheless?

 

[shimmerz]

They are looking for the address that I am living at and that my disability goes to. I can take a hit and 'move' in the next little bit to a place that is a work environment. I am tossing this around now. Then, if they find me I know that it is them. I am sure it is though. But this will fall in line with what you and others are suggesting to see if they find the address. I can also incorporate cameras etc. The only problem with this is that lawyer dude will send his lackie criminal types to harass which will stop me from implicating him in all of this.

I mean really, they were certain that I would go down with this whole thing and I didn't. I fought in court and won - that was powerful and made lawyer dude completely p*ssed that a little girl (moi) outsmarted him. But what I could not get anyone to buy into was that I was in danger and being stalked. This is what I need to get moving on but I doubt my capacity to do so when he has so many people who are willing to do his dirty work that will stop me from implicating him or my ex.

 

[MaybeOneDay]

Friday. I am so happy you brought that solution up.

I dont have financial resources Shimmerz, but i was able to find a lawyers office that was willing to be my address. If you possibly understand my humour sp?
After 37+ years on the run... ( I can imagine their shocked faces as they found out where I supposedly live). Being able to stay a step ahead of them does cause me to smile.

Thank you again Friday for your post. It was and continues to be a working solution for me

Best,

 

[Friday]

@KwanYingirl

It's not that the laws aren't in place that make stalking and cyberstalking illegal it's that it is

1- Exceptionally easy to break those laws both on purpose (as the stalker) and on accident (the new hire at patient registration, the volunteer in the hospital answering phones, the receptionist with 12 lines, all busy). Especially if you're smart enough to call in and pay a minor charge, and then just "double check" what address they're using... Or alternatively to "update" contact info... Or all belligerent wanting to know why you aren't getting your bills! Or any one of a hundred ways to con that info out of the ignorant, frazzled, or sweet & helpful.

2- Insanely difficult to prosecute. Because...

2A- It's wicked expensive to "prove" who is doing the stalking. Where I live I'm more than "welcome" to do all the investigation (meaning hire it done by people who are legally allowed to search through phone and computer records, and who are credentialed enough to stand up in court as expert witnesses) and the ADA will press a criminal case. Of course, same goes for civil suits. All I have to come up with is apx $400,000. That's the average cost in man hours needed for the investigation. That's not including 20k-60k in lawyer fees for a civil suit.

2B- It's often impossible to prove, the moment they start using accomplices.

When the police and Feds are setting up cases for trial it often takes 2-5+ years of investigation (millions of dollars in man hours), another 2+ years in court. This is in part because they're going after more than one person. Even one person can mean dozens to hundreds of warrants (for every device, address, IP address, residence, work), a lot of which are necessary... But not all of which will be granted. Companies with govt. contracts or industrial espionage worthy issues will fight any attempt at a warrant, so if he's using work equipment or is on company property, that's a huge problem. If he's smart enough to be using wifi out of lawyers offices& doctor's offices (privilege) warrants won't even be considered. If he's a lawyer himself? It's almost impossible.

Private investigation (meaning not the police/Feds, but legal investigators, PIs, forensic accountants, etc,) have even bigger hurdles, because there simply is neither the access (they cannot apply for warrants so depend on being allowed access) nor the resources (money, man hours, etc.). That $400,000 cost is one person who is not very tech savvy. If it's a tech savvy person, or a group of people... The cost has just jumped into the millions of dollars and warrants needed realm.

All this means is that companies (and überwealhy celebs) sue people all the time. Not only do they have the millions to do so, and lawyers on staff but they often have both really heavy security and insurance against breeches of security.

2C- Adultery. Which may seem off topic, but sites devoted to helping people catch their spouse cheating are nirvana for stalkers. Keylogging viruses or programs can be installed if you have access, or emailed in a phishing style email... And bam! You now have everything a person is typing into their computer (or phone). Which gives you account names, passwords, routers & IPs.

So... I'll KNOW I didn't do XYZ. But as far as the records look? It looks like I did it. Because my account, with my passwords, and my personal information was used to do so. At one point my lawyer and I sat and watched someone f*cking around in my email. Hands on my head, and things were being deleted, mailed out, etc. right in front of us. Nothing we could do about it. I could sit in front of a judge (or police) and have someone be actively messing with my stuff and there would be nothing they could do. Because, from a legal standpoint... I could have given a friend that info and been having them do it, or tunneled in from another location myself (how people work remotely with their home or office computer).

It's the same way someone who knows your name, birthday, social, etc. can pretend to be you over the phone. Once you have that information, the other person is f*cked. Because just like a person on the phone only has security questions to ask, a computer only has passwords and addresses.

_________

Technology is the Wild West. There may be laws, but you have to be able to afford the Pinkertons if you want those laws enforced.

 

[MaybeOneDay]

I know this only too well. There has got to be a way to beat this, and I'm exploring many options at the moment.

Pencil this is exactly what I am doing. I had a TRO. Went to hearing and based on me being too upset to get my testimony out, even tho I had some proof to read and pictures and a police report. The permanent order was denied. I am sorry you are familiar with this. But grateful to read ur posts. Pls make sure you are Nice to yourself as much as u r able. I am here if you would like PM me. This has been a very long fight (yrs) for me. It does make me question my sanity to have them throw out my TRO. Being on this board has helped me so much and has renewed some of the fight in me. I will find a way to beat him on this sick game. Shaking my head that i even have to.

Thank you for sharing on here. You have helped me

 

[MaybeOneDay]

Do whatever you can to stop feeling like a victim, and to start feeling like a player. They are bound to make mistakes, and when they do, make sure you get the evidence. One common trait / symptom in victims is that they see their abusers as omnipotent. And the first thing you have to do is to get it through your skull that, yes they are dangerous, yes, they have power, yes they will abuse that power, yes, they are probably evil, but they are NOT omnipotent. And, they have become self-assured, self-congratulatory and complacent.

This is the best advice. I could not of explained it any better. In fact I dont think I could of at all. @shimmerz, what pencil is saying is the approach that gave me back my life. I am still trapped but slowly I am gaining ground having this approach in my thinking. You can see I am not good with writing... But @Pencil is dead on with how you have to play this stupid game. I can testify this approach works

Best,

 

[KwanYingirl]

I'm living in a bubble. I have to show my photo ID to have anything at my medical center. Their attention to privacy is extrodinary.
I have had great support of my police dept. in dealing with my stalker. They have something on him because he hasn't been on my property or confronted me for five years, just driving by or in his truck at my office. I never walk out alone.
My alarm company put in a wireless system for no charge after he cut my phone line and came in and smashed my control pad.
I'm saving money for closed circuit at my office.
He never thought I would go to the police. It took awhile and I got desperate after I was denied a restraining order. But I don't feel safe here any more and am trying to sell my house. I am seeing him drive by too often. He pops up at the supermarket and hardware store just glares at me.
And you know what? I don't care if he does get my info because it all documents how traumatic and psycho he has been. I know he has no money for lawyers and he hasn't paid taxes his whole life. He's going down, it's just a matter of time.

 

[Pencil]

He's going down, it's just a matter of time.

Yes. Softly, softly catchee monkey.