Triggered by others lack of empathy?

[sun seeker]

It's a good point a few of you have made, that getting upset by lack of empathy may have to do with how people in the past did or didn't respond to our trauma and need for help. I hadn't thought of it that way but it makes a lot of sense. I think having gone through trauma opens us more to empathize with the experiences of others that don't fit in the "box" of usual human experience (though sometimes I wonder how many people do fit in that box; it's such a small one!) I've gotten to the point where I think I can hear anyone talk about any kind of trauma they have been through and empathize with their experience, even if it is far from my own. That is, I don't think there is any possible human experience anymore that is outside the realm of my imagination, because in so many ways I've been "stretched" already. So even if your experience is different from mine, I can still go there, still empathize and want to understand.

What I still don't really understand is why some people who have also gone through trauma are still callous around the suffering of others. I see it from time to time here on the forum with insensitive things people say to each other, though it is not the norm, thank God, or I wouldn't be here! It makes me feel ill every time I do see it. I feel it as if it were directed at me, even if I have nothing to do with the discussion, just as I used to feel in school. Laurence Heller talks about "psychic boundaries" and how they don't form properly when there is early trauma, so we do feel more of what is happening around us. In a vicious circle that makes us more easily re-traumatized.

 

[WillyKat]

What I still don't really understand is why some people who have also gone through trauma are still callous around the suffering of others.

In my research on PTSD and specifically about childhood abuse, if the abuse starts very early in life before children develop a sense of empathy (age 2-3 or so), they may never develop it. In some cases, children may come to identify with their abuser(s) because there's just no other way to get any love (and we need that). They may in some cases (not common) become abusers themselves. That's the so-called victim-to-abuser cycle. And for the record, the vast majority of abused children do not become abusive later in life.

 

[sun seeker]

In my research on PTSD and specifically about childhood abuse, if the abuse starts very early in life before children develop a sense of empathy (age 2-3 or so), they may never develop it.

Hmm... that can't be a universal though can it? I do notice your use of the word "may".

Could part of it be that some people have coped with trauma by getting tough, and they get impatient around people who for whatever reason have not developed that tough skin? Or that they because of their own thick armor they don't realize that their words can be hurtful? Some people really appreciate being treated with what they would call "tough love." Myself, I cringe and run as fast as I can in the opposite direction. There are probably a lot of hurtful comments that are actually from people intending to be helpful. It takes an added layer of empathy to go from "how I would want to be treated in this situation" to "what this person needs, even if it is different from what I would need in their place." The latter requires putting ourselves aside a little more to really see the other person. I never thought that through before, thanks for the opportunity.

 

[sun seeker]

Thinking about this some more... I think I was objecting to the idea of toddlers not having empathy, because they so often do display empathy, like trying to comfort another child by offering them their own comfort objects or pulling a caregiver over to the crying child. I smile to remember my daughter as a toddler offering her bottle to a distraught politician on television!

But then I realized this is that first stage of empathy, where we offer others what we ourselves would want. I don't know at what age we develop the second stage, sensing what another person would want when it is different from ourselves and being willing, at least sometimes, to put our own needs aside for another. Do you know anything about that? Maybe that is what hasn't developed in people I see as callous. Just theorizing.

 

[Iamyflysandy]

I have lost faith in the human race, period. I know there are some kind people out there and have a few in my life, but for the most part, my experiences have taught me to trust no one. Still, like an idiot (?) I continue to try to help others because I feel their pain intensely. I refuse to let the bad ones change me into a cruel person, but in doing so I still suffer and feel I don't even belong in this world. What the h--- is wrong with people? I prefer the company of animals.

 

[WillyKat]

Thinking about this some more... I think I was objecting to the idea of toddlers not having empathy, because they so often do display empathy, like trying to comfort another child by offering them their own comfort objects or pulling a caregiver over to the crying child. I smile to remember my daughter as a toddler offering her bottle to a distraught politician on television!

Right. Empathy starts very early. My understanding is if it doesn't develop by age 3 or so, then its an uphill battle after that point. There are many other developmental aspects that sort of build upon a basic level of empathy up to age 11 or so. It's really a critical piece. But I'm far from an expert so if someone else has some expertise, please enlighten me.

 

[Iamyflysandy]

I get triggered by mental health professionals who believe they know best for me / better than me, about myself and my needs! Especially when most of them could not truly relate to my trauma and do not even attempt to put themselves in my shoes.

I hear you GWhizz! I have been to so many therapists who seem interested in helping me at first, but later sit there silently, in their designer pumps wasting my time and money. After 5-10 sessions, I simply don't go back because it's always the same. I'm done making them rich while I continue to suffer. Also I'm afraid of what I might do if I get angry enough because I can't take it anymore. I'd like to wipe that smug look right off of their faces.

 

[Anarchy]

Hi Willykat,

It's strange - I'm actually numb to the killings and to the spectrum of responses (all too often, this seems to range from indifference to satisfaction) to the character assassination of the dead victim which usually occurs afterwards.

I can watch the video to Rob Hustle's "This is what you get..." (at least half a dozen real people being killed) or the video "why american cops fear SHTF" (more pointless beatings, maimings and murders), It makes me angry that it happens, and intellectually, I feel for the people on the receiving end, their families and their friends - but emotionally I'm just numb.

I don't know whether years of TV desensitized me, or whether I just can't let it in because it would hurt too much if I did.

 

[void]

@WillyKat

don't watch the coverage....defend your mind
when your mind 'goes there' say...No!
what happened to him is not you
how others respond is not you
FOCUS on you!

Be well.:)

 

[risingsun]

I'm done making them rich while I continue to suffer.

I couldn't agree more. I know of people on this site who will make great therapists because they know what it is to suffer. And I know of people on this site who have been fortunate to find good ones.

But most therapists available that I have encountered have not known suffering or have not allowed themselves to feel it, therefore not able to offer any sort of compassion or empathy.

I was fired from therapy (a licensed psychologist) who told me that my depression was beyond what she could offer. No referral. She told me to come back when I was stable??? Honestly, she was a narcissist. She didn't want to push beyond her comfort zone of her nice and tidy practice and help me. "Next in line" was her motto. Sorry you have had these experiences as well. Rising Sun.

 

[WillyKat]

@Anarchy, I sometimes feel numb too, cuz there's just too much of it.

@void, In this case, I'm not getting confused, even way down deep, with being Garner. I'm responding to someone else's lack of empathy in their response to the Garner story: my wife. She sees the story come up on the news, and instead of having a reaction to Garner's shitty death, her focus is his very soft, minor, and non-violent form of not complying w/ the police. I hesitate to call it resisting arrest, even though I know that's the technical term for what he did.

When I say something to the effect that it doesn't matter what Garner did. Granted, he didn't comply, but that doesn't mitigate at all the piss-poor, unprofessional, sloppy, amateurish way he was arrested and not cared for. In other words, the only thing she seemed to notice was "what he did to contribute to the situation" (not exact words but close enough). It's like saying that a pedestrian run over by a car is partly responsible for being there. Absurd.

 

[sun seeker]

It makes me angry that it happens, and intellectually, I feel for the people on the receiving end, their families and their friends - but emotionally I'm just numb.

I used to feel everything, to the point of being completely overwhelmed by listening to the news. Now like you, I've gone numb a lot of the time because it's just too much too feel all the pain of the world. It's too much even to feel all my own pain, let alone everyone else's too. However, there is a big difference between numbness and callousness, not caring, blaming the victim, etc. I still feel and act with compassion, but without letting myself feel other people's pain in its entirety. I guess it comes down to the difference between being empathic and being empathetic. The latter is always a good thing. The former can make you so sensitive that you have to avoid even hearing about another person's suffering, which makes it hard to do anything proactive about it.