Self Destruction: Intimacy And Infidelity

[Kintsugi]

Every now and again--particularly in times of prolonged, elevated stress--I will get the itch to play with someone. Typically, I mean "play" with someone pretty literally, in that it is completely (and even if it's not, it is majorly) mental, emotional, maybe even spiritual (if you're keen on that word) act. I haven't been cognizant of doing this for nearly as long as I've done it, but I have realized now that I basically find opportunities to essentially manipulate some male into being attracted to me. I honestly don't know exactly how I do this. I just know that it happens and is a pattern, and now this year I've been able to firmly acknowledge and accept that I do this.

This all seems insane to write about, but you never know; maybe someone on this vast forum will relate to this bizarre phenomenon.

I say infidelity in the thread title because in the past it has gotten to the point of prolonged romantic toying that if I found my own partner was doing this, I would consider it an act of infidelity on some level. For some, an emotionally intimate relationship with someone (or one that is somehow psychologically intense, not sure if this makes sense) hurts more than a physical act of infidelity. When I am not in a monogamous relationship, this pattern disturbingly (I swear I only fully recognized all of this recently) takes the form of simply collecting multiple suitors, again, almost always non-physical relationships with a disproporionately mental or emotional component.

Anyway, I don't really know where I'm going with this except to say I am going through this right now. It is a strange compulsion. Recognizing it and watching myself is about all I can do. This is probably the most clearly I have ever noticed myself getting this itch, and I have to say it's a bit like the itch to drink too much or do some hard drugs. I guess I just need to try and manage it as such. I have always been terrified of jeopardizing my relationship with B. I hope writing this post will remind me that I need to watch my step. I don't even know how it is I always pull this crap off, so I just need to monitor my every weird impulse to make sure that's not what is motivating me.

 

[joeylittle]

More than recognizing and watching the behavior (two very good things), can you try making different choices? You are aware now that the behavior is destructive.

Can you change it?

 

[Kintsugi]

I can honestly say I really do not know how exactly I do this. My only answer is that I usually opened myself up to new social spheres or novel social events. But that's not always a bad thing. I've done that not having had that impulse as a motive, I'm sure.

That's part of what motivated me to post here, because I was thinking tonight about whether or not I should limit any social exploration for the next couple of months just in case. But that does sound a little paranoid, doesn't it? I don't have an adventurous social life in this town. There are only a couple of people I could think to get in trouble with, and I would hope I could maintain the sense to avoid them.

I think this is just the strangest form of self destruction. Stranger than driving inordinately fast, cutting, drinking, drugs, etc. to me. I frankly have trouble taking myself seriously on this matter. Writing this thread has been a conflicting experience, because I really think the whole thing sounds a bit like some mad conspiracy theory about my own psyche.

 

[joeylittle]

That's part of what motivated me to post here, because I was thinking tonight about whether or not I should limit any social exploration for the next couple of months just in case. But that does sound a little paranoid, doesn't it? I don't have an adventurous social life in this town. There are only a couple of people I could think to get in trouble with, and I would hope I could maintain the sense to avoid them.

I don't think it sounds paranoid - it sounds like being self aware and preemptive. And if you already can think of who you might decide to "target", then yes, you can choose to not engage their attention.

It strikes me that you are looking for short-burst, intense connections. There just be something you are getting from it - some kind of escape, maybe?

You could also put more focus on your stress management, distress-tolerance type skills, to see if you can avoid feeling the compulsion in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

This is the first post that I've honestly thought about replying to anonymously. But, somehow I don't think that would help me as much as if I just posted as me.

I can identify with much of what you say. I think that I may be similar to you in a number of ways, but the scenarios manifest a bit differently. Number one, I commit to no one, so my behavior, in my mind, is ALWAYS legal. I can go out and do whatever with whomever with no repercussions. Yes, funny how you can twist your mind into things like this, right? That is, a guy may be totally into me and such and at times I may be totally into him, so he'll *think* there is some sort of unspoken agreement, but nope, there's nothing. And until there is that "we are together" conversation, I consider the guy "just a friend". So maybe that doesn't seem so bad as lots of people don't consider it a commitment until that conversation takes place, but when I meet someone new and he asks if I'm seeing anyone, the lovely little reasoning in my mind says "no, I'm not seeing anyone" because, of course, that specific conversation hasn't taken place. I don't sexually bounce between guys, back and forth, because no, that's not my deal. But, I must admit, that I can charm a guy, I know what it takes to make him feel special, and in return he gives me that attention that I so desire.

At this point I realize I must sound so horrible....

It is like a drug. When you don't have it, you want it. Am I proud of my behavior? Heck no. Hell, I go so far as to minimize any evidence of what I do. I'll say things like "guys don't ever flirt with me!" or "I never get hit on!" when that's not exactly the truth. I USED to not get flirted with or hit on, but my looks have drastically changed in the last few years so now it happens a bit more often. The truth is that I know what to say and I know what to do and I know how to turn on the charm. (I have a stone cold b*tch face for when I want to be left alone, so yes, there are like two sides of me.....the side that wants attention, and the side that gives "if you get too close I'll cut you!" looks.) Its sort of like I can go out and have fun and get my fix but then when I want to be left alone, I can turn it off just as quickly.

I kinda met a guy tonight and I think I really like him. Well, enough to know that I need to stop this cycle of doing what I want and reasoning it away even though I hurt people. Ok well not exactly "just" met him as I've been talking to him for awhile, but yes, we finally met in person. I don't want to jump the gun or anything (cuz well that's not really my style) but I know I don't want to hurt him.

Do you ever think that sometimes posts come along at just the right moment....like you were supposed to see them at that particular time? Yeah, sometimes I do.

What's your trauma? Mine is young childhood sexual/physical/emotional abuse. Maybe that's a common thread? (Sorry, I don't remember everyone's traumas.)

 

[anthony]

particularly in times of prolonged, elevated stress

Well... that is the cause.

You're at identification and recognition, though you're missing an integral aspect of the, why, at present.

What do you get and feel from this behaviour? What need is met? What emotion/s are generated / satisfied for you to cease the behaviour and return to normal?

 

[Kefira]

I relate to a lot of what you've said also and I'm still trying to piece all of the whys and hows together for myself. Thank you for being brave enough to post.

I seem to have two main things I get from this kind of behavior. Normally in my relationships times of stress for both of us have manifested in neglect and typically resentment of me for my condition. Not justifying it, but it does seem upon examination that I've built a pattern where as soon as there's painful distance I go looking for a manipulative emotional connection elsewhere. Partially as a failsafe maybe because of fear of being alone, partially to prove I can do so and am therefore worth something.

The second thing that for me was much harder to admit is that when I'm stressed sex is even more threatening and terrifying than usual. So by cultivating a look but don't touch situation I feel valued but it's safe. For me it's even more proof that I am valued, because I normally skew the rules in my favor so that I have all the say and these situations tend to follow a pattern where eventually I move from manipulation to outright using the other person.

Destructive cycle to be sure. And even being aware of it hasn't helped too much. I have mostly male friends. And the majority of them have expressed wanting to or thinking about sleeping with me. So if I feed the impulse even for a second it snowballs. I'm in the aftermath of one of those now. It's more confusing because I see myself as worthless and unattractive so I never understand how it can get out of hand so quickly.

 

[Kintsugi]

@Solara My trauma is childhood sexual abuse. I was raped later in life in a very controlling relationship. I think there is a common thread here. I feel that I am unable to turn off whatever part of me that causes others to see me as a sexual being. It's like I'm permanently stuck in a seductive mode. It's hard and somewhat embarrassing to describe. I think this is why I prize looking adrogynous, even though it is pretty much impossible for me to appear androgynous. No matter how much weight I have lost I do not look amiguously gendered, but I have tried, and I wear a lot of baggy clothes.

I think Solara has hit a lot of it. It is about the attention. But it's more than that to me. I think I relish the danger of it. I like skirting the edge of what is acceptable. I think I am fascinated by how far someone can go in investing it me without there being much or any physical component to my relations with them. I know that I enjoy the sense of control.

This thread actually began, days ago in my head, as a thread about women who have been in abusive situations, and did they feel like on some level, they knew that they were playing with fire from the start? I know I have, more times than I care to acknowledge, realized that I had control right up until it went too far, and then I lost control, and then I freaked out. Then things went bad. Then I couldn't press stop.

I also think it's like, I don't know. How much can I get away with? Like I don't know how I always get away with this shit. I don't know. I agree with Solara. I know, and I think I learned at a grievously young age, how to make someone feel special. How to do whatever it is that will make them think something unique and beautiful is happening when there is nothing unique or beautiful at all.

 

[Kintsugi]

@Kefira Thank you for posting. I can relate so much to what you've written. I agree that there is a level of proving I can do it, and somehow that makes me more valuable. I hope you and @Solara will continue to think about this and share with me.

 

[Kefira]

@Simply Simon I will share anything else that comes up.

I didn't realize how much that feeling of somehow being more valuable for being desired by someone else factored in. Particularly someone who can't have me fully, and if it's because or their own morals because I'm with someone even better. Messed up, I know. But then I was watching the last destructive spiral I was in happen, and I realized that I was flipping my situation onto the other person. In the time period following my initial abuse I was desperate for affection and validation, and I was always the first one to give at every point along the intimacy line. Giving myself intimately was the best form of currency I'd found and that was further ingrained my the conditioning of my abuse- that that was in fact the only thing that made me worthy to keep breathing. I realized somehow I'd twisted that in my brain so that I was dangling a carrot and making someone else 'prove' how much they wanted me. And for me, that not being first, and manipulating the situation so that I'm always poised and feeling in control and semi-detached (or at least where I could walk away more easily than the other person) is the main reason this cycle keeps repeating.

Thanks again for the thread. It's scary, you know. I don't think I'd ever commit violence against someone or become a stereotypical abuser. But seeing how much the abuse I've survived has twisted my perceptions of interpersonal relationships and how I've learned to do things like this without fully realizing what I was doing... Well, that's terrifying.

 

[Kintsugi]

Giving myself intimately was the best form of currency I'd found and that was further ingrained my the conditioning of my abuse- that that was in fact the only thing that made me worthy to keep breathing. I realized somehow I'd twisted that in my brain so that I was dangling a carrot and making someone else 'prove' how much they wanted me. And for me, that not being first, and manipulating the situation so that I'm always poised and feeling in control and semi-detached (or at least where I could walk away more easily than the other person) is the main reason this cycle keeps repeating.

This. X100. You have described my own behavior and feelings outrageously well.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Wow you've really given me a lot to think about!

My therapist once told me that I had the perfect storm of abuse. Sexual abuse outside the home (by a caretaker), and emotional and physical abuse inside the home, all at the same time. I had nobody to turn to. Maybe this is why I developed this "skill"?

I think you really hit on something when you mentioned the part about others seeing you as a sexual being. It made something click in my mind... I don't have any female friends right now. I wouldn't know how to go out and make a female friend in real life if my life depended on it! (Of course the internet is different.) Well, scratch that. Let me rephrase. I wouldn't know how to go out and make a STRAIGHT female friend. I realize that in my past I've been able to use the charm factor on lesbians just as I would with men because I can cross that sexual line. Well, you know, that line of flirtation that you'd never use on another straight woman? The thing is that I don't consider myself to be gay or even bisexual. Its just how I relate to people, with that seductiveness if you will.

And now I feel bad....Have I been leading people on all this time? Have any of those feelings been real? (Ugh, the rearview mirror second guessing that goes on in my head!) What if I'm doing the same thing right now with the guy I'm currently getting to know? He's been chasing me for quite a long time now. How do I know if I really like him vs. just trying to get attention? I really do need to take it slow with this one. Fortunately, with such a long chase, he knows I'm not ready to jump into anything.

I understand the "getting away with it" bit. Sometimes I wonder the same thing, too. Do I make these guys feel so wonderful that they are willing to turn a blind eye to the things that I do? Do they truly not notice? [The guilt is kicking in again, but I refuse to be one of those chicks who thinks commitment begins at "hello"...]