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Topics You Can't Touch With A Ten-foot Pole

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Break it into smaller pieces, come at things from the side, & chip away. Easier said than done, usually.
Okay, I'm going to ask this directly, in case anyone has any ideas I haven't thought of. I kind of thought that was how we were approaching this, because I knew a head-on approach would overwhelm me. So we waited until I had gotten through a milestone that we both thought would make me strong enough, and then we approached it from more of a cognitive angle than through working directly on my emotions around abandonment. It still took me, I won't even say from 0 to 60, but right into the stratosphere, in no time flat, and I still haven't come down. My higher brain obviously gets hijacked when this issue comes up. Where are the smaller pieces here? I really want to know because that would be the place to start, but I haven't found any small enough.

Meaning, is it actually urgent, or just feels urgent?
I guess it's urgent because when I am experiencing it, which I am a lot of the time, it is overwhelming and takes over from the rest of my life. Kind of like if your house was burning down, it would take all your energy. That's what dealing with this issue is like. I can dimly appreciate that my house is not actually burning down and that this is a conditioned response, but the conditioning is extremely persistent and in my face.

While I've touched on the fear stuff in therapy, it's differed from how I've dealt with other trauma in that I've not specifically gone into it too much.
Okay, got it, I think. So you work on it indirectly in the context of working on other stuff and her consistently being there for you?

I don't know if any of that is helpful but I truly think the only way to heal relationship stuf is from within a safe therapeutic relationship.
I'm stuck here. I might need to start another thread on this, it's a whole topic unto itself. Trust is SO terrifying for me, I can't imagine what that would take. I almost feel like I'd have to be in a hospital to make it safe.
Not sure how much use I am to post as I'm not doing well and am all over the place at the moment too, but...
Sorry to hear that @barefoot. Your comments are always welcome, whatever state you are in at the time.

Sorry, you're struggling - and I really feel for you that you're getting slow responses from your therapist when you're having a difficult time with this stuff.
Yes, I think I need to have a talk with him about how to work on this remaining problem. He is excellent with the shock trauma and we have worked through a lot very quickly. I'm really not sure how to approach the abandonment stuff, both because it triggers me to high heaven no matter how we approach it, and because I'm not sure whether it is possible to work through it at the same warp speed. But then, my own inability to trust ANYONE to be there for me consistently gets in the way of building a therapeutic relationship. I've told him that. And I'm not sure how much time he has to dedicate to regular sessions over time. These three weeks aren't vacation, it's that he is in so much demand he spends part of his time in another city working. I need to know if he can commit to regular sessions with me for a while. Sigh. I just don't know how to approach this. It feels like a Catch 22 situation.

And he still hasn't answered me. Doesn't he see how anathema this is to working on abandonment issues? Or am I paranoid? See, I can't even tell.
 
I'm not sure about the precise definition, but as he uses it, it's a traumatic event like physical or sexual abuse where there are distinct traumatic impressions, as opposed to attachment trauma or developmental trauma that happen over a period of time and may include a lot of things that should have happened but didn't, in the context of a relationship. Or something like that. :)
 
I think it's worth seeing how much time he can commit to your therapy and for how long. Abandonment abd attachment issues areong term, consistent work and if he can't do regular sessions or is working to a timescale you'll always have in mind that he's going to leave anyway.

I can't imagine doing this work in short term or periodic therapy. In my case I did feel absolute terror for a while and had to fight feeling both over attached and wanting her close all the time, both at the same time. I needed to know she could be responsive enough to both those parts of me because I couldn't talk about my fear of her abandoning me and couldn't trust her either. Even now we "joke" about her not being able to retire until I'm done with her... only I don't think I'm joking!

It may be that dealing with the "shock" stuff is what this T can give you and someone else needs to do the relational bits - which I know brings its own stresses. You do need someone who can be there for you on a consistent basis in the long term.
 
You do need someone who can be there for you on a consistent basis in the long term.
Yes, and therein lies my biggest problem. Finding that person, and being able to trust that they will be there as they say they will. Just getting through that feels like a hurdle the size of Jupiter. I've been let down by a lot of people who said they would be there for me and then weren't, including therapists.
 
What do you do with those topics you urgently need to work on but can't?
I have just being having a conversation today about this. I am having therapy because I dissociate when emotions get overwhelming, so we have been working on emotions, but also attachment and developmental trauma. I have one massive trauma that I just cannot go to at the moment. They think that I cannot get rid of depression and generalised anxiety disorder unless I tackle this trauma head on. The thought of this just terrifies me I do not feel ready to tackle it head on. I am anxious abut the therapy coming to an end, and do not know how I am going to cope without therapy. I feel happy chipping away at it but tackling it head on no way . So what do you do I have tried EMDR before and this totally sent me off at the deep end freezing dissociating and being a total wreck. Sorry I am not offering any answers to you but I can totally relate to the position that you are in. I also have trust issues so it takes a long time to trust anyone to open about issues. I don't know what the answer is and to be honest I don't think any body else knows the answer that is the problem. Sorry I hope this makes sense.
 
I guess it's urgent because when I am experiencing it, which I am a lot of the time, it is overwhelming and takes over from the rest of my life. Kind of like if your house was burning down, it would take all your energy. That's what dealing with this issue is like. I can dimly appreciate that my house is not actually burning down and that this is a conditioned response, but the conditioning is extremely persistent and in my face.

Okay... So not actually urgent at all! :happy: "Just" (I hate that word!) extremely volatile & disruptive / it feels urgent & isn't.

As opposed to actual-urgent : facing divorce, for example... Or looking at having to sign over custody of your kids if you can't stop doing XYZ that's tied up in this area... Or, or, or. Anything with a real & actual timeline & consequences if you don't meet it.

I ask(ed) for 2 reasons

1) It changes how a thing is handled. Since you're not on a clock, you've got time to deal with this the best way possible... Instead of needing to deal with the worst parts fast & dirty / that will have negative consequences, but they're objectively worth it in the face of what else you're losing / OR needing a short term fix to get you through $&£€%¥?!$ f*cked up thing... Will have to come back to it to both work on it & clean up the mess left over from the fast & dirty fix.

2) It gives you an element of control / a piece to work on in and of itself / a handle. The urgency? Isn't real. It's part of the anxiety response to the oh-f*ck-no-zone.

***

ETA... I changed the order I posted these in, because this response informed my answer below / it makes more sense... Even though I wrote these in reverse order. The only place where that gets weird (I think) is that the Oh-f*ck-No-Zone is explained below. Cheers!
 
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Where are the smaller pieces here? I really want to know because that would be the place to start, but I haven't found any small enough.

Attachment / Connection to others is a huge topic. So one of the smaller pieces would be actually organizing it into its different components. Even if it's "just" all the pieces that DONT reach "you must be at least this tall to ride this ride" line. Some of that you've already done :) You already have people split into 2 groups, after all; those you're fine with & those you go 0-60 over. There's a line, a level, in your head and heart. And then 2 more pieces; death or abandonment. Both of those are huge topics as well / have a lot of moving parts. I'm betting there are areas there you're just fine with, as well.

Working out all the pieces you're just fine with? That's not only working on it, but useful... Helps figure out the edges of a thing. Edges, in my experience, are rarely smooth. They tend to be pretty star shaped: some points shooting out, others which go surprisingly deep into oh-f*ck-no territory without actually crossing the line.

Then working out at the pieces that start to get squidgy? That, right there, is starting the exposure therapy on them. Cause you can start to work on them, then back away. Watch your SUDS. Even just starting to think of them, realizing, nope! And backing away to go do something else? Is starting to push those boundaries. If you can write down even 1 word that's squidgy? Awesome! Write down another word next week. Or in an hour. Whenever you choose to dance up to the line and back off / you're in total control of it :)

You'll also find bigamist suckers. Areas/ pieces/ concepts that are fine under XYZ circumstance, and oh-f*ck-no under other circumstance. They hold 2 equal and opposite truths.

***

As a case in point / examples from my own life:

- I am perfectly fine with prior service & active duty of (almost) any other military that's not ours.
- Get extremely squidgy around American prior service & active duty. I can do certain things, some times, under certain conditions, but it's all very edgy.
- USMC? Oh f*ck no. Even mentioning them wraps a vice around my heart, makes my eyes sting, sinks cold anxiety in my belly (I do it on purpose, though, over & over... Cause that's what I do when something hurts, keep f*cking with it & backing away... until it hurts less).
= If this site were run by an American Vet instead of an Australian one? I wouldn't f*cking be here. That simple. I have to approach the vet thing from the side. The more American the sister-site is? The less I'm there, even though I really f*cking care for some of the individuals there, and I really hate myself for avoiding it. But my SUDS starts hitting the damn roof & I have to back away. Too close, too close, too close.

Word to the Wise : Be open to surprising yourself!!!

There are components in my oh-f*ck-no zone that I am perfectly fine with. IDK why. Like Luxembourg, or American Indian Reservations, or embassies abroad...they are their own countries surrounded OFN. Islands of calm. Every time I find one? I am surprised as hell. But they *help*. They give me solid ground to stand on, safe, secure, when I find myself miles deep in OFN.

***

<grin> If you drew this shit out? (I'm super visual) There would be an exploding star in the center of the page, the Oh-f*ck-no zone. Not even gonna THINK about what's in it. Inside that star would be a few islands of bliss, but we can leave that at the moment. A loosely drawn outline around the star would be the squidgy zone. The borderlands. Write in words/concepts as you can. On the outside of the DMZ, the green zone. All the things you're perfectly fine with.
 
Ten-foot pole topics...things I can't engage with even though I KNOW I have to...
Newborn part and other infant parts from pre-adoption.
The bedroom when I was three and exploded into lots of parts (except it comes in various forms of flashback).
Sex and sexual relationships.
My self-destructive parts.

I'm sorry you are having such a rough time with this. I think I posted somewhere else earlier that you might be pushing yourself too hard/too fast.

When I most desperately need help it's hardest to ask.
Yep, me too. This is an important skill folks like us need to learn. Not only to reach out, but to be quite specific about what is happening that makes us feel like we need help.

It's an emotional problem, and a trauma problem, and the trauma feels so big that when I get into it my body is completely flooded. So obviously I'm not ready to work on it yet. But I can't put life on hold until I'm ready, and I get triggered all the time, and I have no idea how to get to where I will be ready. Any approach I can think of feels like being thrown in the deep end.

I'm familiar with inner child work, but can't seem to get enough distance to be the adult in this situation.
What you're doing/ is not inner child work. It's way deeper than that...parts work. Some of the parts are inner children. But this is different from inner child work as it is commonly known.

my attachment issues come up when I get to a certain level of closeness with people.
Mine too. Most of the time I don't care. But when I get particularly close to people (i.e., show a good bit of who I really am) and they're not there when I need them (because of their own stuff usually), or they move, or they let go of contact for whatever reason, I get to feeling quite abandoned and parts of me start saying "See, you idiot, don't let anybody close ever again." But then I do anyway. And it happens. It always happens in big ways (like actual leaving forever in one way or another) and in small ways (like times of disconnection or lack of availability). For lots of my baby/child parts, there's no difference between big ways and small ways. In their world, disappearing is just disappearing. No sense of future possibility. I am learning very slowly to show them that even though other people may not always be around for them, I can. Me. My SELF and even my grown-up parts. And they are slowly learning this. How? Because of what my therapist is modeling for me. My brain is ever-so-slowly rewiring itself, and I am beginning to see that I am not alone in the world unless I want to be, that I can reach out to people and often they will be there for me--perhaps not in as thorough or intense a way as some of my parts wish, but there in a good enough way. And that I can, increasingly, be there for myself in a way that I could not be when I was a baby or a child.

I become absolutely terrified that if I make one small mistake, one false move, they will either abandon me or die.
Yes, these are child parts stuck in past traumatic experiences. Because this certainly has no basis in your current reality. People who are your friends are not going to die because of something you say or do (unless of course you actually murder them), nor are they going to abandon you because of a small mistake or false move. People do sometimes withdraw a bit from me if I get too intense or weird, but I am learning that they just need some space to deal with their own stuff. It's not that I have to change, unless they tell me that something specific I have done hurts them. But 99% of the time, it's just that they get busy or need their own space, in the same way that I need mine.

Meaning, is it actually urgent, or just feels urgent?
This is a great question. And I love the stuff you talk about in the latter posts.

I read somewhere that the important thing is to turn up, it almost doesn't matter what you talk about - it's about letting the relationship do the work, and I can see where that's working for me. It's very very slow, and sometimes doesn't feel like we're "working", at all in the traditional sense in therapy, but we are. There are times I've not been able to say what I've needed to and times I've wanted to peel my own skin off but I keep going.
Yes, I think this is actually true. I like it better when I feel like I am making progress and working on specific things. But I'm learning to see that it is just the consistency and duration of the relationship that is the most healing thing for me. And the therapeutic relationship--which is quite different from any other relationship I have ever had. And freaks me out on a regular basis. See squirrel video I posted in a new thread called Disorganized Attachment.

the head f*ck that is therapy/the therapeutic relationship
:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::banghead::banghead::banghead::bag::ninja: I LOVE your description.

My higher brain obviously gets hijacked when this issue comes up. Where are the smaller pieces here? I really want to know because that would be the place to start, but I haven't found any small enough.
There are bazillions of smaller pieces. Like the attachment work you are doing by keeping coming back to this forum, and the relationships you're nurturing here. Like continuing to show up to see this therapist. Like posting this thread. Like the work you are doing with your child parts to help them feel safe and to soothe them (THIS is really great work even though it feels so fragmented and crazy to you...keep doing it. And let these parts see that YOU are managing their care--you, in your body, are wrapping up in blankets, clutching your bear, giving voice to the tears or whimpering or whatever comes out. YOU are drinking tea or walking barefoot in the grass to keep yourself present so you can provide your child parts with compassionate care.

The flooding stuff can begin to abate to just blending when you can find some little part of your brain to acknowledge that you are somewhat in control of the choices you are making for self-care.

Kind of like if your house was burning down, it would take all your energy. That's what dealing with this issue is like. I can dimly appreciate that my house is not actually burning down and that this is a conditioned response, but the conditioning is extremely persistent and in my face.
Yes...this is the difference between flooding and blending. Or some might say switching and co-consciousness. Whatever words you use...the KEY is that dim appreciation of the difference between actual here and now external reality, and the wildly confused internal reality that is your parts.

Trust is SO terrifying for me, I can't imagine what that would take. I almost feel like I'd have to be in a hospital to make it safe.
Yes...I have some quite determined parts of me that feel the same way. Unfortunately, hospitals don't work on this kind of stuff. There is some place called STAR that does a 10 day program I think and one of the tracks is attachment. It's the only one I've seen like that. Hospitals are all about stabilization. The problem is, they mostly stabilize you by stabilizing your medications, and teaching you distress tolerance/containment skills (if they're good hospitals). That is, safety skills. Which are REALLY important if things get to be physical and you're struggling with the urge to self-harm in any external way. What hospitals SUCK at is relationship building, or practicing said safety skills while approaching traumatic material. Nope. This is what long-term psychotherapy is for. And not CBT. Because CBT gets only at distress tolerance and thought and action behaviors. Not at the real gut-wrenching, soul-stretching, heart-breaking work that is relationship.

I'm not sure whether it is possible to work through it at the same warp speed. But then, my own inability to trust ANYONE to be there for me consistently gets in the way of building a therapeutic relationship.
No. Can't do at any speed. It takes infants years to develop fully secure attachment with a good-enough parent. Probably will take us twice as long because we've already been wounded and are mistrustful, and we know too much about the way the world works. But it is not impossible.

You see, you yourself talk about how often your trust has been betrayed. But guess what? You're still here. You survived. You are still reaching out for friendship and support. That alone shows how strong and open-hearted you actually are. What stops you is not your inability to trust people. What stops you is your fear of what might happen if they go away. When you were little, abandonment was life-threatening. Now, it's not. Now it just hurts like hell. And the trick is to get your parts to see the difference. YOU...your SELF...are strong enough to weather a hell of a lot of betrayal and abuse and abandonment. You already have. Your wounded parts just don't know that yet.

In my case I did feel absolute terror for a while and had to fight feeling both over attached and wanting her close all the time, both at the same time. I needed to know she could be responsive enough to both those parts of me because I couldn't talk about my fear of her abandoning me and couldn't trust her either.
Yep. Sounds so familiar. It is so great for me to hear someone else's experience with this!!!
 
Hi! Hey, @sun seeker, just because you started a thread doesn't mean you have to respond in a timely way or even at all. Those are my rules BTW. No pressure from my point of view. We all get something out of reading the conversations. Of course, it would be great to hear your responses, but in your own time. The whole point of this forum is for healing and support and self-care. So practice, dear friend.
 
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