Pencil,
I am so unsure about posting all this as I am not you are going to like what I have say! It is on a totally different track to the one you are presently at. ;):cautious:
I think you have done some great awareness work here.
But before I do go on and on I wanted to say a few things and ask a few things. Some of them are for you to deliberate and hopefully help you put the big picture together. They are NOT trick questions!
Where do you see your ego states fit into this? We all have them (adult, child [ needy and playful], parent[critical and nurturing]. Can you differentiate between these and your triggered EP state? Can you also differentiate when you are splitting someone into good and evil rather than it being an EP state?
How much of the time in therapy are you in your adult state (adult in the context of what you were talking about and not the above)?
I also want to say that you are far from alone when it comes to the touch issues you describe. I personally have a similar dynamic even though there are other issues (differences) I struggle with. I have seen many others on here describe something similar or variations of it. Look at the hug poll and that gives a hint of it too. And yes I think the hug story says something important about attachment and how we feel about it. Therapists know that as well of course. Physical contact has all sorts of significance when it comes to relationships, trust and attachment. And our feelings about having needs. And I think all through this thread and before in other threads you have managed to express your feelings about touch very well and that push pull dynamic your struggle with.
If touch had not had a bad history then these things would not be so darn confusing. And all children and adults need physical touch in their lives. And I think being able to have it in our lives is an important aim. Mostly I can't even want it a lot of the time as it is too triggering a thought. But I know it is important.
From what you have said I think your therapist seems to very much understand where you are with this as well. I was surprised to see what she had said to you as it seems astonishing that the two of you have been able to have this type of conversation after so few sessions and that she has so much insight so quickly. I am assuming some of that is totally down to you. That you have been able to express mush to her. I am in awe of that considering how long it takes for me to speak about anything in therapy.
I also think it is very important to keep in mind what your patterns and mindset was as a child throughout your present considerations as I suspect that still has the most power. And it sounds as if there have been elements of similar dynamics happening in other intimate relations for you in adulthood.
There was your mother - unloving, unpredictable and unfair in her attention and love for you children. There you were - just trying harder and harder. Adoring her but never being able to get close enough. Maybe having an idealised split image of who she was in your head rather than the reality. Never getting enough. And knowing that getting closer could backfire and you could be seriously harmed instead. And yet some resiliency in you kept you trying.
That makes me think that your avoidant behaviours in the present are possibly partly to do with distance in relationships feeling intolerable. That you would rather keep away totally than be in a relationship and not get what you feel you need.
I also really wanted to say there absolutely is hope and things can change. Lets take those who have dissociative identity disorder for example. They have total walls between sophisticated EP's and between their ANP's and that means that there is zero memory of what the others have done after. Just like I don't know what you have done unless you have told me. And then after lots of work they develop co consciousness then they are there when the other ANP or sophisticated EP is out - they are both present. And yet they do learn to control when each is out and how they behave. That is a key part of therapy. Like boundary setting is part of mothering. Setting boundaries for their insiders internally. And loving them. And the healing comes from being able to manage life by doing that; acceptance and love of the different parts of self; and the talking through and resolution of trauma.
So if it possible for them it is possible for all of us. And actually even with single trauma PTSD the same principles apply. Managing self or selves, self care; acceptance and self love; and resolution of trauma.
I also think it worthwhile remembering that disorganised attachment is then qualified by looking at the next closest attachment pattern. So someone would be disorganised - ambivalent/avoidant for example. I remember you said a therapist had diagnosed you as having ambivalent resistant attachment patterns (which is anxious ambivalent in adult theory). What you describe with your mother fits with that exactly actually - if it as a secondary diagnoses to disorganised attachment.
Because attachment is mostly about or founded on that first dynamic I think its worthwhile discussing anxious ambivalent attachment and how it is treated in therapy. Whilst of course keeping in mind that there is a lot more going on as there is avoidance/pushes in your life too. Especially now it seems. Thats where the disorganisation comes in.
Here is a quote I found quite interesting too: "a growing body of research shows that attachment style can change, subtly or dramatically, depending on current context, recent experiences, and recent relationships". This makes sense for me when I look at my life. I think recent experiences, circumstances and other factors can make things look a bit different and be different. I am not sure if that core pattern from early on would be something that always hovers there but somehow suspect it does. It seems to me that those painful pulls and pushes have become so intolerable that you have distanced yourself from any relationship that you can.
With your therapist it occurred to me that it is the feeling of lack of connection that tends to make you feel you need to leave or that makes you angry and hurt. Where she is not giving you as much as you feel you need. Or is not thinking your thoughts. It is the distance and difference that makes it intolerable for you not the connection or closeness when that happens. You do not start off needing more boundaries and more space and then having to work hard to be able to tolerate more connection.
Someone who is predominantly ambivalent resistant would be wanting the therapist to be one with them and give them everything they need. The relationship would be all consuming in some respects and feel very intense.
And that is Ok. If part of this is how you react then that is OK as it was the most adaptive to you attempting to get your needs met when you were a child.
This is quote from one of the therapists to do with a hypothetical client who is anxious ambivalent: "She doesn't trust implicitly that I’ll be there for her, that I’ll care enough, which is why she is always looking for more”. It very much sounds like that is how you felt about your mother Pencil. You were always trying to get more. And you didn't know what you would be met by. It was Russian roulette. I actually think the fact that you kept trying shows some sort of fighting instinct in you that is maybe something you should be proud of. You never gave up even though it was so hurtful.
Possible obstacles? I think a few would be: thinking good therapy would require that a therapist gives you all you need at all times without getting it wrong sometimes; possibly thinking that all boundaries are bad without letting the therapist develop things over a period of time; seeing misunderstandings as unacceptable and due to bad therapy rather than a part of therapy; seeing closeness as being merged with someone (see 5.6); Viewing any sign of disconnection as a sign of possible danger and a lack of care; assuming that ones feelings are the only perspective and that one knows what the therapist thinks or intends.
The following are excerpts from research done where experienced therapist were interviewed on how they treated attachment disorders. They varied in very many approaches and possible personal views of the world. It seems that generally the same view points were being presented by most of the therapist. I have picked out the anxious ambivalent attachment stuff (that was not obviously irrelevant) because of the above I mentioned. This would only be part of picture because the client (J) is "pure" anxious ambivalent. But I do think there is relevant information here for you. And it seems to me you have looked at avoidant quite a lot already.
"I think J would come to be really intense with me and have our relationship be really, really, really important. I would have to not beafraid of that. I would have to be able to engage and really connect, but not merge and keep my own boundaries. And let them know I really do care..."
On disclosures:
"I don’t know if I’d call it a technique, but I’m very disclosing ... . If you hold back, if you are secretive and if you are classically psychoanalytical, a) they will stop therapy, b) they will mistrust, and c) you are perpetuating images that make them feel untrusting of the world to begin with. (However, several therapists cautioned that the content and nature of the self-disclosure must be carefully considered. Disclosing feelings toward the client or affective reactions to what a client has said seem to have the most salutary effects, whereas autobiographical self-disclosures are least helpful—although some therapists did not rule out even this type of disclosure in the engagement"phase of the work.
Object constancy. Some therapists highlighted the importance of being a constant object for clients like R (avoidant) and J. Being a consistent presence in clients’ lives and establishing dependable interpersonal boundaries helps them develop trust for the therapist and new working models of others on the basis of their experience.
"Being really consistent so that they know the relationship is going to be built on trust and I am going to be a consistent presence and object in their life. Doing that is going to help them engage in therapy and help them understand that therapy is not a mystery. (Overt discussions about ruptures in the working alliance can be another marker of progress. When clients like R and J are able to express their disappointment toward the therapist, it demonstrates that they are affected by the therapist and that they are willing to act out their negative feelings. For clients like R (with avoidance),A client like J (with anxiety) may become less guarded about expressing anger as the work progresses; this may mark a shift from idealizing the therapist to devaluing, but the rupture provides an experience to work through some of the core issues.
As one therapist explained, "I could be another example of a person who has done what everyone else has done to her. I often kind of warn clients at the beginning when they report that they’ve had three therapists and this is how they’ve treated me ...whatever it is that I expect will show up in the room, I try and predict that and that if the client begins to feel that, I encourage them to talk about it..."
" I’d be looking for the client or patient to be doing the work of therapy. That is not simply acting out the need to be fed and to merge, but also trying to understand the wish and the impulse and perhaps the fear involved..."
1 Idealizing transference. A majority of the therapists described clients like J (with attachment anxiety) as idealizing them from the beginning of therapy. They suggested that clients like J often go through many therapists because of their attachment instability and feelings that their needs are never fully met. Thus, a new client may idealize the therapist because the therapist is the replacement for the “not quite good enough” therapist from the past.
5.2 Confusion about therapeutic relationship. Another transference reaction described for both R and J was confusion about intimacy. These clients have developed skewed relationship models from unhealthy attachments to early caregivers characterized by either seeking to merge or avoiding closeness. A relationship with the therapist that challenges these old models may be confusing to clients. " For example, I think it can be confusing because I think they have a perception of closeness that is an enmeshed type of closeness. It’s like when the dawn rises, oh I get it, closeness wasn't what I thought it was."
Many therapists emphasized that in addition to being aware of one’s own reactions, it is also important to be cautious about becoming defensive when a client’s behavior is eliciting a negative reaction. In instances in which they have reacted strongly, a few of the therapists expressed a willingness to claim some ownership of the reaction and apologize to clients."
On distance in therapy:
Thus, therapists establish an initial therapeutic distance that is not ideal in the long term but is necessary to engage a client with high attachment anxiety. This aspect of the model is symbolized by the T positioned closer to the midpoint than the ideally adaptive therapeutic distance, but yet not as close as the distance a client with attachment anxiety In these circumstances, if a therapist insists on maintaining ideally adaptive therapeutic distance, few hyperactivating clients would be able to tolerate the resulting frustration. Instead, the therapists we interviewed take deliberate steps to reduce therapeutic distance in the early work, for example,by gratifying some of a client’s initial needs.
...when a rupture occurs and they are willing to discuss their experience of the breach, it is an indicator that the relationship is now (stronger)...
...Study multiple therapists with regard to the specific techniques they use to increase or decrease distance, to conceptualize clients and to make judgements about the ideal distance that is best to establish at a given point in the work, and to manage the resulting strain on the relationship when the distance established by the therapist is not the distance desired by the client...
*****
So basically I wonder if it would not help you if you tried to let go of the thought that she is wrong in the boundaries that she is setting and to rather work with on the awful feelings that they bring up. To sit with those feelings and let her support you through them. To accept them as part of what therapy is going to entail for you. So that you can get to a place in your life where you are not haunted by them.
You can always go on and have somatic therapy afterwards. But if your therapist now still maintains a distance that means you are kept safe then I can only think that is wiser at present.
