C-ptsd Information.

[SimplyComplex]

So no matter how long or how much stress a person has endured, at any time in their life, if a physical threat or harm wasn't involved, they cannot be diagnosed with PTSD, based on the DSM.

From my understanding, it is perceived threat. So take a child who never had a knife held to their throats but their mom told them they would going to leave them, CPS would come and take them away and then they would be ignored and starved to death in foster care (thanks mom), and that would qualify. It doesnt have to be an actual threat, but if the person perceives it as one, then it can leave to traumatic disorders.

Anyways, when are they going to pull their heads out of you know where and come up with a whole real set of diagnoses for trauma disorders?

 

[Ben]

From my understanding, it is perceived threat. So take a child who never had a knife held to their throats but their mom told them they would going to leave them, CPS would come and take them away and then they would be ignored and starved to death in foster care (thanks mom), and that would qualify.

I think you're right, that would qualify for PTSD in the DSM-IV, as long as "starved to death" was included, because it's a fear or threat of death. But let's say, hypothetically, their mom said she'd leave, CPS would take them away, they'd be teased in foster care and everybody would hate them the rest of their life.

I don't believe that would qualify for PTSD under the DSM-IV definition, no matter how often it happened, because there's no threat or fear of any physical injury, even though it would probably be equally, if not more, frightening for a child.

Anyways, when are they going to pull their heads out of you know where and come up with a whole real set of diagnoses for trauma disorders?

Exactly.

 

[SimplyComplex]

If memory serves me, serious harm is included...I think its splitting hairs. A child might feel the threat of death if they see their parent raging at a neighbor or riding in a car with a manic parent. A person being raped might feel the threat of death even if there is no verbal threats or weapons used. Having to prove that you feared for your life to qualify for a diagnosis that you can get from a number of situations is a bit pointless.

 

[jimmy-joe]

So you want the unique to be categorized? What would be your criteria?

PTSD requires real or perceived threat of harm/loss of life. This is what makes it Post-TRAUMATIC Stress Disorder. There is no splitting hairs... It is a name for an anxiety disorder(the worst one) that occurs in direct response to a Traumatic event(s). (So yes, a kid getting threatened with death or harm would fall into this "Trauma" thing)

That's your trauma diagnosis right there. That actually covers all of the anxiety responses related to Post-Traumatic Stress. After that, what else is there? PD's? What other symptoms come from trauma? That can't be found in one of the several other diagnoses*

You could argue that the mom's threat to give the child up for foster care would be traumatic due to the fact it would be the loss of HER current life, but it wouldn't provide the basis for all the stuff that happens when someone gets raped, or molested, or shot, or beat, or a gun held to their head. These are vastly different than social "trauma" experiences.

That kid could easily develop fear of abandonment, BPD, anger issues, ODD, dysthemic disorder, Narcissistic PD, Histrionic PD, and who knows what else. But the simple fact is that they were NOT in danger. Their WAY OF LIFE may have been, but there is no harm or death associated with that besides like self-harming and going into bad situations because you are afraid of people hating you.

(Wow that sounds like quite a few people's social anxiety problems! IDK Coincidental I guess)

 

[Ben]

Having to prove that you feared for your life to qualify for a diagnosis that you can get from a number of situations is a bit pointless.

Yep. You have to prove "Actual or threatened death or serious injury or other threat to one's physical integrity." That's straight from the DSM-IV.

I actually quoted the DSM-IV criteria for PTSD earlier in this thread.

So you want the unique to be categorized? What would be your criteria?

PTSD requires real or perceived threat of harm/loss of life. This is what makes it Post-TRAUMATIC Stress Disorder. There is no splitting hairs... It is a name for an anxiety disorder(the worst one) that occurs in direct response to a Traumatic event(s). (So yes, a kid getting threatened with death or harm would fall into this "Trauma" thing)

That's your trauma diagnosis right there. That actually covers all of the anxiety responses related to Post-Traumatic Stress. After that, what else is there?

My point, and I think the point of many of those who argue for C-PTSD, is that there are other kinds of trauma besides being threatened with physical harm or death, which are severe enough to cause the same symptoms as PTSD. So "what else is there" is trauma involving threats/fear of things other than physical harm.

This was brought home to me, the one and only time I decided to visit a therapist (way too expensive for more than a few visits), at an office which specialized in PTSD. Most of the patients that I talked to in the waiting room were combat vets, and I saw why--the therapists were strict with interpreting the DSM-IV.

My therapist tried to diagnose me. I had the symptoms of PTSD. But, answering honestly, I couldn't say that my parents ever threatened me with physical harm or death. Ten years of living under extreme stress, by the DSM-IV's definition, therefore could not possibly cause my symptoms.

She gave me some psychological personality tests, on which I tested normal, as she would expect someone with PTSD to do. She seemed puzzled. When I mentioned I'd been in a serious car accident as a child, she got excited and thought maybe that was the answer. But I had no nightmares connected to that, no fear of driving or cars or any situations related to it.

Note: I wasn't wanting a diagnosis for work/benefit/monetary reasons, just for treatment to help decrease my symptoms.

Finally she said she'd treat me "as if" I had PTSD, even though I didn't, because my symptoms fit so well even though I didn't meet the DSM-IV criteria. It was so silly I quit going. Oddly enough, when I mentioned C-PTSD, she'd never heard of it even as a proposed diagnosis, although it would have solved her puzzle perfectly.

 

[amethist]

The reason they are tightening the criteria, is for a number of reasons, not to stop those truly suffering form being diagnosed, but to stop those who are pushing for the diagnosis for crazy things.

Like, Divorce due to spouse having affairs, Falling of a chair and breaking an arm, or even dafter a sever paper cut from badly stacked photo copy paper.

Also to stop some of the so called professionals miss diagnosing, just to make a fast buck.

 

[Sterre]

or even dafter a sever paper cut from badly stacked photo copy paper.
.

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

 

[jimmy-joe]

PTSD is an anxiety disorder that encompasses all the other ones, if you have some significant symptoms of PTSD, they could easily fall within the other ones. Maybe since it was 10 years of stuff, throw a "chronic" on there, but the fact remains, there is still a major difference between trying to stay alive and putting up with some serious BS.

My point, and I think the point of many of those who argue for C-PTSD, is that there are other kinds of trauma besides being threatened with physical harm or death, which are severe enough to cause the same symptoms as PTSD

3 things about this, A) the only place I've ever seen C-PTSD mentioned is here (after going through several treatment programs and therapists) so my sample size is small, but just about every person that has mentioned it has been talking about childhood abuse(as the start, and reason for putting the big ole C)
and B) It doesn't matter if they are "as severe" because you could have someone who has been getting tortured every day growing up, who has no anxiety problems, until they see Barney. Then they can't even turn the tv on anymore because of Barney, because he causes uncontrollable fear (first time ever seeing him). Or you could have someone who was spoiled their entire life, who sees someone get hit by a car on the street, and becomes too afraid to enter any vehicle without xanax or sedation for 10 years. This brings in the categorizing of the unique.
C) Smarter people generally get traumatized worse, if you take the idea of PTSD being a traumatic event "burning" itself into your mind(laymen's terms) the smarter person is etching it deeper, my point with is, 10 years of stress, you probably have an IQ greater than that of a cucumber, chances are, you ingrained it pretty deep. This would help explain some of the severity, though again, each situation and each individual is unique.

PTSD isn't about the severity of the anxiety. I have PTSD, and have tried so many times to get things like xanax or one of those calm-down pills, but because I don't exhibit enough anxiety, they call it drug-seeking lol. PTSD is about if you exhibit at least 14 of the 17 symptoms developing from a Traumatic event. It is a label for the after-effects of a traumatic event. It's not a "super anxiety" label.

You can have Generalized Anxiety Disorder and be x65 more anxious than someone with PTSD.

Standardized rating scales such as GAD-7 can be used to assess severity of generalized anxiety disorder symptoms.[5] It is the most common cause of disability in the workplace in the United States.[6]

~wikiapedia

Ten years of living under extreme stress, by the DSM-IV's definition, therefore could not possibly cause my symptoms.

It could EASILY cause your symptoms. Just because you don't match up for PTSD doesn't mean it's not a rough time...

So "what else is there" is trauma involving threats/fear of things other than physical harm

Have someone hold your life in their hands(and know very vividly they have all the control, keep your eyes open too) while they are causing you some physical duress, and then compare that feeling to being yelled at a lot. I'm not saying the other stuff isn't stressful, I'm saying there's a rather intense difference between being in possible last-moments danger, and everything else.

My therapist tried to diagnose me. I had the symptoms of PTSD. But, answering honestly, I couldn't say that my parents ever threatened me with physical harm or death.
She gave me some psychological personality tests, on which I tested normal, as she would expect someone with PTSD to do. She seemed puzzled. When I mentioned I'd been in a serious car accident as a child, she got excited and thought maybe that was the answer. But I had no nightmares connected to that, no fear of driving or cars or any situations related to it.

Few things, a) your therapist, at MOST, should only give you her OPINION of your diagnosis. Therapists are not qualified to give diagnoses
b) this gives off an enormous glow of "looking for cookie-cutter dx + treatment style cookies plz" (at least from the therapist)
c) the psychological personality tests... um, I'm willing to bet a vast majority of people w/ PTSD would NOT test "normal," especially people who grew up with it(unless you are like me and try to give the sanest answers you know). Not to mention the many other things that can arise out of traumatic situations (I was dx with PTSD, ODD, ADD, Dysthemic, bipolar, BPTraits (borderline for kids), and maybe one or two more.)
d) given the nature of mental health, most of the treatments are guidelines... you can have any anxiety related to a past event(since debating trauma vs. non-trauma, non-trauma for this event) and do EMDR and talk therapy and electroshock and meds and physical therapy, all of which have worked for people's PTSD (keep in mind, PTSD doesn't really ever go completely away, idk maybe if you only have a few events), and see results.
e) every case of PTSD is unique

Note: I wasn't wanting a diagnosis for work/benefit/monetary reasons, just for treatment to help decrease my symptoms.

You could check the web and find things to help, or could ask her for help getting past your anxiety(I assume that's the issue) and then just delve into why things bother you, and set about changing the rigid thought patterns (that lead you to anxiety, sorta like a habit that someone else burned into you, to stop a habit you have to change the thinking during the situation[something about neuron paths and use it more it builds stronger paths this way etc etc] and train yourself not to do it automatically). The diagnosis is a non-essential if you know the problem...

Finally she said she'd treat me "as if" I had PTSD, even though I didn't, because my symptoms fit so well even though I didn't meet the DSM-IV criteria. It was so silly I quit going. Oddly enough, when I mentioned C-PTSD, she'd never heard of it even as a proposed diagnosis, although it would have solved her puzzle perfectly.

1) Many, MANY symptoms are shared across diagnoses, check the other ones
2) What is C-PTSD? Because even on this site, I don't think people can agree yet lol, it's been pretty repetitively described as trauma being started in childhood
3) Don't let yourself get mixed up with severities and etc etc. You have a self-identified problem, no? See the problem, dissect the problem, fix the problem, rebuild. Most of the treatments (at least for anxiety) are just ways to do it easier.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

The aspect of "always being this way" actually isn't about PTSD, hence the confusion and why CPTSD isn't a real diagnosis, or going to be one anytime soon. That is about the duration of trauma you have lived, which stems directly into personality disorders formed in adulthood due to childhood longevity abuse.

Personality "always being this way" is its own area of trauma therapy, which requires far more succinct and empathetic approaches, combined with trauma therapy, in order to recover. Personality takes many years (decade even) of hard work to change and even understand in order to change.

THANK YOU!!!

This actually supports my firm belief that I do not have a personality disorder, and many others who are diagnosed with borderline may not be borderline as well. Why? Because I can ONLY be diagnosed as "borderline" when I'm triggered, as this is the only time I have borderline traits. Therefore, my personality is NOT always like that! I get triggered, I get angry (borderline), I get triggered, I want to hurt myself (borderline), I get triggered, my mood shifts due to anxiety (borderline), Yes, I could go on... So these traits are due to an internal reaction where my adrenaline surges, not because I have a personality disorder.

Anyone ever met someone with a true personality disorder? They ALWAYS have those traits! Someone with NPD isn't narcissistic only when triggered, they're narcissistic ALL THE TIME!

Shifts view of my trauma... Not "complex" in nature, rather a series of unfortunate unconnected events.

 

[SimplyComplex]

I am not sure thats what Anthony meant. But I think what it is called isnt important. What is important is that you are working hard on recovery. :)

 

[Emilie]

Here's a link to information on Complex PTSD via the Veteran's Affairs official website, the National Center for PTSD.


I have PTSD and a mixture of DID and somatic symptoms such as migraines. Nobody's is the same really, there are vague similarities. You qualify offically as having PTSD with a subcategory (side note) of Chronic. My forms from my psychiatrist to the Social security administration said, "Post traumatic stress disorder(chronic)"


Link Removed

 

[Emilie]

I actually got just got approved for disability under PTSD (chronic) 308.9 in the DSM-V

I think some people just get heated about the topic because telling someone their trauma isn't as significant as someone else's trauma is really really bad. But the fact remains, that if you grew up in a third world country or had to fight to survive your childhood you might have more potent symptoms than someone who experienced a one-time, short term incident. I for one suffered Munchhausen by proxy, (my mother would beat me and make me sick for pity), I was sexually abused, forced to have sex with other kids my age, and experienced stockholm syndrome by living with multiple abusers and near other abusers. ect ect, not to get into the deep stuff too much, but I think you can see my point. I don't take for granted the fact that I grew up at least with food on my plate and home to live in, and some people don't even have that.


If you have any coping questions feel free to have a chat with me