Confused About Complex Trauma

[Jagged Angel]

Becvan, it is difficult to describe the severity of these sorts of symptoms... I found it hard with the T yesterday, because you can't just say 'this is what happens'.

And as for the disassociation... I have spent my entire adult life feeling I was not a human being, and still mostly do feel this way. I thought everyone felt that way. I thought everyone felt as though they sat in a bubble, separated from the rest of the world and even themselves. It has only been in the last couple of years that I have found out that this is not 'normal' (by the way, my T had a book on her desk yesterday that was called '"Normal" is a cycle on the washing machine'... love it!).

Sorry, my thoughts are still rather scattered today - I'm still trying to take in what the T said

 

[anthony]

Wendy, PTSD is PTSD... but it changes in severity. We here have always endorsed that we do not differentiate to people, ie. acute, chronic, severe, complex, etc... or get into the specifics of how one got their trauma as a focus, but these change the severity of the illness for each person. I am still not going to break this forum down to those levels though, never will, because trauma needs to be treated relatively the same, regardless of symptom serverity.

You do know however that some do suffer more than others, and even with treatment and meds, will continue to suffer more than say someone with only acute PTSD. It is quite often found those with say acute PTSD can and do hold down a job, work and so forth... but that doesn't stop them falling over at the end of each day. Someone more severe, wouldn't even make it to work or through an hour, as they would likely collapse from anxiety, flee from panic, beat someone to death or serious injury, etc. There are some who have quite severe symptoms but still do work, they are in jobs where the job is more relaxing to them, not with people, etc.

Hemels... your doctor put it too you, from your words, in a nice easy basic context for you to come to terms with. It is like people being told PTSD has no cure. It is hard for them to grasp and come to terms with, but it really doesn't have one. Some people want to hear it, some don't... doctors are a business and some things they do or don't say are patient oriented to what they feel they do or don't want to know based on their responses.

Here... if you ask for the truth, you will get the truth, nothing held back.... and you will likely just get it regardless whether you wanted it or not. People need to hear the truth.

 

[PerfectEmpire]

I have a hard time believing I'm actually human.

I have no filter when it comes to honesty.

I have no emotional filter either.

I truly do not understand people and why they do things or how they think. I just can not grasp them.

Wow. Me too, that's exactly how I am! Nice to know I'm not alone. Thanks for posting.

 

[Auburngirl]

From what I've read and been told it seems like part of the CPTSD diagnosis (though as others have said it's not in the DSM) is some recognition that the current PTSD description doesn't fully capture the effects of trauma for some people.

Some descriptions say that CPTSD is distinguished by dissociation, a loss of sense of self, and traits of BPD - mostly coming from ongoing trauma. For me, I think this diagnosis came up because dissociation is my main symptom.

My psychiatrist said (and gave me some journal articles to read) that there are a few competing "new frames" for alternative post-traumatic disorders. CPTSD is one (and there are currently some competing definitions as it hasn't been fully codified yet), one is DESNOS (disorders of extreme stress not otherwise specified- clearly not an illuminating acronym!).

My doctor actually gave me descriptions and articles of both, and asked what I thought of them, and we discussed which bits applied and which didn't. I can't remember how to post links, but if you google "Do I really have C-PTSD" there is a letter and a response by a psychologist, talking about how this is used currently as a 'working definition' in a number of cases that vary, but involve ongoing trauma, and chronic symptoms.

I think especially with mental health the diagnostic labels are a tool, but an inexact one. You could not quite meet one definition and then be not considered to have PTSD despite having most of the symptoms, or have a waywards symptom that means you get diagnosed with three things instead of one. We're people and all different in how we experience this. I think the acronyms are a starting point, and sometimes provide some solace (ie there is something real wrong), but we shouldn't get too caught up in them.

I was initially completely freaked out when I was told I had CPTSD, as I thought it was worse than PTSD (and for good measure I was told I also had PD and DDNOS - I think because those are in the DSM and CPTSD isn't). I think it's just different, and seems to crop up more where the trauma was interpersonal. The current wikipedia page is not bad (it seems to have been improved recently), IF you read it as some discussions about the idea, and don't read it as someone's discussion of you.

 

[Deleted member 541]

Anthony,

Yes, I do understand why you don't break things down on here. Completely understand and agree....I just don't get into all of the shrink lingo, and terminology....

Yes, I also understand how 2 people with PTSD can be so different in their functioning level. I have several friends with PTSD and all of us function at different levels. What one can do, the others may not be able too.

25 years ago, I was a complete basket case, incapable of working, and getting dressed for the day was about my limit on decision making. I had a daughter, so I was forced to do other things, but only from necessity.. Thankfully I have improved much, but not enough to work in a corporate work setting, I just can't do it,and I have tried..... So I work for myself, and am alone most of the time.

 

[Marlene]

I think you may want to rethink how much of a specialist this person is then, because straight from the DSM diagnosis:

Acute: if duration of symptoms is less than 3 months
Chronic: if duration of symptoms is 3 months or more

Acute and chronic...yeah, I got that, Anthony. It wasn't part of what I wrote. What I wrote about what chronic and complex and what is the difference between them.

 

[Jestadud]

Is it just me or are there others who read threads like this and become sad because they can't find a way to make things fit for them?

When people quote the standard criteria for developing ptsd, it makes me sad because I don't meet that standard criteria and it feels a bit like being told you are not real.
I knew I had ptsd, but I was here for six months before learning it was possible for 1% of sufferers to get ptsd for other reasons.

It became clear that ptsd played a part in my life before becoming full blown and I'd sort of accepted that I have cptsd. Now it seems I can't make myself fit this criteria!

However as they say "one door closes another opens", now I've seen something new DESNOS!!
You might not like the acronym Auburngirl but it sounds good to me.

I suppose I ought to make clear that I haven't taken anything written to be about me personally.

 

[jefferylee]

My Two Cents On C-PTSD

I am one who has also been diagnosed w/ C-PTSD and this is how it came about.My father returned from WWII w/ what we now know as PTSD.He became an alcoholic and when he drank,he would start telling me his war stories and as he got more drunk,he would start beating me,often w/ his Marine Corps. 4" wide belt.As his alcoholism progressively grew worse,so did the beatings and by the time I was six,I was having my own nightmares of combat!

It is very true that when a child is repeatedly mistreated and cannot establish their normal place in life,they are left highly susceptible to
any new traumas they're exposed to.By the time I left home at 15,I was one mean son of a bitch,ready to fight at a moments notice and with a huge chip on my shoulder.I decided that robbing drug dealers would be a good way to make a living and over the next four years I experienced so many "fight or flight" episodes that now those synaps in my brain are so fried that most medications have zero effect on me.I was shot twice (and came within 5 minutes of bleeding out one of those times),stabbed three times and had my skull fractured twice(three times total when you include the time my father fractured my skull) It would be easier to list the bones I DIDN'T break and I lost track of how many stitches I got.I can't remember how many times I was only shot AT!

Then,at 19,I witnessed two brutal murders not ten feet from where I stood frozen in place.The next day,the two mob-connected assailants tried (and nearly succeeded) to kill me! I was a " dead man walkin' ".
Eventually,I had to testify against the two murderers and they pleaded guilty to avoid the death penalty and got 25-to-life instead.That was 39 years ago (and 2 months!) There was no federal witness ptotection program in those days and I was given a wallet w/ a new identity in it, $500.00 cash and a plane ticket and was told by the US Marshal Service
"if you know whats good for you,don't come back"...yea,thanks for the good advise I said to myself.

The traumas weren't over yet however,as I was relocated from the Northeast to Florida in 1970,just as the Columbians began flooding So.Florida with pot.Within 3 months I was smuggling tons of Columbian red bud into St.Petersburg via shrimp boats. Eventually,the cocaine war broke out and even I realized it was time to get outta' Dodge while I was still in one piece and "retired" to the West Coast.

For the last 39+ years I have been forced to live under an assumed name and didn't see my family from 1970 until 2008.My mother,father,sister and grandparents all died during this time and I couldn't even go to their funeral services.I have 3 ex-wives and a 20 year old daughter who don't even know my real name! For the first 25 years,I constantly moved around,changed jobs,changed my appearance,checked under my vehicle for bombs and tried as best I could to disappear in plain sight,never stand out or stand up to be recognized,never vote,never get involved,always blend in.

After turning 50...BAM! it all caught up to me and I started having flashbacks,nightmares,my life-long imsomnia got worse,my body started breaking down,I had 2 bad hips and was in chronic pain for years,and then I tried to commit suicide,and that's when I was diagnosed with COMPLEX PTSD...and that's the kind of lifestyle one has to experience to have been given the "complex" diagnosis. (just my opinion)

Peace and Hope...jefferylee

 

[starshine]

It is very true that when a child is repeatedly mistreated and cannot establish their normal place in life,they are left highly susceptible to
any new traumas they're exposed to.

I agree.
To this day I'm not even sure what a 'normal place in life' looks like or feels like. I see others *do* it and not have the level of extreme self consciousness and self criticism and internal and external storms that I have, yet it feels terminally unreachable for me. I wonder if I'm another 'species', less than human. Although in my 'right mind' I know I'm just as human as the next person, and I have feelings and thoughts that prove that - including that I feel tearful when typing this - 'traumatised mind' feels something else entirely.

I liken Complex PTSD's aetiology to be experiences that are like water slowly breaking down a stone.

 

[sisyphe]

bec, I can relate a lot to your feelings on society. For me, I think that even undermined my ability to see myself as a person, because I'd look at how horrible people were, and the thought of being a person myself just left me assuming I could only be evil if I ever tried to do anything, so I guess I decided it was more ethical to be a non-person and just blank out and not care about anything or do anything. I think before I got sick I saw people as 99% good and 1% evil, and afterwards it was 99% evil and 1% good, but now I think that was pretty black-and-white thinking either way and really people are a fairly even mix of good and evil if you look at them.

 

[becvan]

I asked my therapist (who's a PTSD specialist) what the different between complex and chronic PTSD is. His response is that it's really just two words for the same thing. He said that the term 'complex PTSD' started cropping up recently but that it doesn't have any difference from chronic.

Maybe that will change with the new DSM V. Who knows.

Lisa

Your PTSD specialist is woefully uniformed on this one. Chronic PTSD is the duration of the PTSD. It just means you have had PTSD for a long time.

Complex PTSD has a different set of symptoms attached to it and comes from continuous interpersonal trauma. The majority of cases are from severe childhood abuse (which is why children are always mentioned.. because it starts in our early childhood.)

So basics are: Chronic PTSD= long duration of PTSD symptoms
Complex PTSD= extra symptoms and severity of symptoms

Did that help at all?

bec

 

[becvan]

Jagged Angel: thanks for starting this thread and asking. I rarely talk about C-PTSD and it's nice to just ... talk about it.

I'm both relieved to have others understand and get it and yet sad that we are all suffering the same. For all of you::Hug_emoticon:

sisyphe: I don't have a before. It has always been this way. That is just what I was taught and how I view the world.

Jestadud: what are you talking about? The criteria for PTSD is pretty simple really. Have you endured an abnormal trauma? Yes or no? It gives examples of what abnormal trauma is but the list is by no means complete. C-PTSD is a bit more extensive.

Have you been diagnosed by a doctor of any form? C-PTSD is not something you can just determine on your own. It really needs to be done by a professional. Severe PTSD can seem like C-PTSD but not be. Remember it's all about the severity except for the continuous interpersonal trauma with C-PTSD.

bec