Childhood Confused about Sexual abuse

[Muttly]

Let's say said child was standing by the bathroom door looking into bathroom where dad was masturbating and telling the child not be scared and to come in, come closer....all in a very loving, gentle warm kind way. The child felt scared though, not sure why. But there was not touching, just an invitation and encouragement to join in.

Nope, not ok. A parent should not be inviting a child to come in. no way.

Sorry, I'd give a more thoughtful reply but I'm not in a good headspace

 

[TruthSeeker]

Nope, not ok. A parent should not be inviting a child to come in. no way.

Sorry, I'd give a more thoughtful reply but I'm not in a good headspace

I agree! No way, daddy should have closed the bathroom door, zipped up, washed hands, and come out. Inviting the little one is is boundary crossing, not teaching privacy, not teaching bathroom is a private place, and inviting little one in for a show....abusive (IMO) because the child is not old enough to know it is not okay-the child is too young to know about privacy, boundaries, and sex w self.
Those behaviors are taught.

 

[Gs172003]

Nope, not ok. A parent should not be inviting a child to come in. no way.

Sorry, I'd give a more thoughtful reply but I'm not in a good headspace

In this context it's not just not ok it's abusive.

 

[ppippi]

This is the part u lose me. Why is it abusive?on some level I know it is but deep down it feels normal

 

[mylunareclipse]

Put yourself in his shoes for a moment there you are doing you thing and your four year old kid comes in the bathroom would you say come in don’t be scared and continue? Why would that be messed up? Heck replace four year old kid with adult kid? Do you see how messed up that is? Imagine if your dad that to you now and said come in? Would you think that’s messed up? Just because you’re a child doesn’t mean people should use you in any shape or form they wouldn’t use a grown up. Kids are not dumb and undeserving, they also deserve their boundaries just like adults. The only thing is it’s up to the adults to protect them and their boundaries until they can learn how to do that for themselves.

 

[Gs172003]

This is the part u lose me. Why is it abusive?on some level I know it is but deep down it feels normal

What makes it normal for a parent to invite their child... ANY child for that matter....in while they are pleasuring themselves??

 

[ppippi]

What makes it normal for a parent to invite their child... ANY child for that matter....in while they are pleasuring themselves??

I'm not sayingi it's good or normal. Im just saying it FEELS normal to me and I don't understand why

 

[SweetPainfulLoving]

In this context it's not just not ok it's abusive.

Welcome to the forums ppippi.

I don’t think, having read the more detailed description of what you experienced, that there is any doubt that this was child sexual abuse.

The fact that you are asking these questions and on this site would indicate that you also know, at some level, that what happened was not right and that it affected you.

I am going to talk a little bit about my own experience, because there are some similarities and, maybe it will resonate with you. I apologize for the length....this is the first time I have shared any of this on this forum (I have only ever shared it with 3 other people during my life). For those that are triggered by CSA stories - you may wish to skip this post.

I was molested by my great uncle when I was very young....starting when I was probably 4 years old - a similar age to you. I was invited to sleep over at his house. He was kind and made sure we did fun things. We played board games. He made me my favourite food for dinner. Then it was time to go to sleep. I was invited to sleep in his bed so I wasn’t scared/alone. As we were going to sleep he suggested I look out the window (which I was closest to) and play a game counting the cars I saw. While I lay on my side doing that, and he played the car game along me, he began fondling me. Because I was on.my side I had no idea what he was doing to himself. I remember being uncomfortable and my body freezing up but he acted so normally and warm and friendly and loving....I was a very young child that did not understand what was going on.

This incident repeated itself EXACTLY on many different occasions. I kept sleeping over at his house because up until bedtime we had fun. And he was nice. And I loved him. And I DID NOT understand that what he was doing was so very wrong.

As the abuse continued I made it ‘okay’ in my head....that is how I survived. I ‘normalized’ it. I justified it. I excused it. No, it didn’t feel right, but maybe it was just his way of showing me he loved me. Okay, no, it was wrong, but maybe he just didn’t understand that.

Finally, as I became older, (maybe 8 or 9 years old?) I became more uncomfortable and stopped going to his house. A little older and I began to realize that he had abused me. A trusting, loving, innocent 4 year old. I despised what he did, BUT I was FINE. I was highly intelligent, athletic, social.....it had NOT affected me in any way. It wasn’t going to affect me in any way. I wasn’t going to let it. I wasn’t a victim I was a survivor. I was stronger because of it. I was glad.....I learned, as an adolescent, that 1 in 4 females are sexually abused and I decided at the age of 10 or 11 years old that I was ‘lucky’ because it ‘wasn’t that bad’. And, in some way, I ‘saved’ someone.......I was the 1 out of the unknown 4. Better me than someone else (I had a sister a year older and 2 younger brothers). I could take it. I could handle it. It was just fondling. It wasn’t violent. It wasn’t scary. It wasn’t rough. It wasn’t more....there was no penile penetration. I was fine.

I grew up playing a ton of sports. Popular. Excelling at school. The perfect child......with VERY low self esteem. But, hey, that was just my personality. I wasn’t afraid of intimacy.... I was just ‘too busy’ to date. I didn’t kiss someone until the very end of high school. I didn’t date until I was in university. I didn’t have intercourse until I was in my mid20’s. I married the first person I had sex with (LOVED sex.....can’t get enough....and equate that to real love/intimacy) and he turned out to be a narcissist. I was married for 14 years before I finally realized it, couldn’t take the abuse any longer and got out. Within 6 months I met another man who also was a narcissist (with PTSD) and had sex with the second person in my life and bonded to him and stayed with him off and on (at his discretion) for 5 years.

It took me a long time to convince myself that what I experienced was sexual abuse. A long time to understand that he was a child abuser (and most likely there had been many many victims before me). And an even longer time to allow myself to admit that it had afffected me. I was in full on denial and survival mode throughout my 2 relationships. To be honest, I am just really getting to that stage now and I am in my mid40s and have been therapy for 7 years (most of it just trying to deal with my toxic relationships with my 2 narcs). I am just now allowing myself to accept the fact that what happened to me as a child.....as ‘benign’ as I tried to convince myself it was.....has affected me tremendously as an adult and with my relationships. Did it stop me from having sex (eventually)? No. Did it affect how I think of sex? Probably (It is a huge bond for me. I immediate feel ‘better’ after having it regardless of how shitty I am being treated at the time...because it causes me to feel connected to mv partner even when maybe I shouldn’t.). Did it affect how much I crave it and how often I want it? I don’t know. Did it affect my self esteem and help make me the perfect ‘victim’ for the narcissists? Oh, yeah. So did it negatively impact my life, of course.......it just affected me in a way that wasn’t so obvious to me.......it affected my ability to choose a healthy, truly loving, giving intimate partner. It affected my ability to have a healthy, fully formed adult relationship.

I read what you wrote and I see myself in you (abstinence, fear of intimacy, trust issues, questioning boundaries) and the questions you are asking (was it wrong? was it abuse? did it really affect me?) and the situation you have found yourself in ( all of which may not be valid, so please understand I am not equating my experiences to yours or trying to make a connection that isn’t really there....this is all just based on me and my own experiences).

Some of us on this thread may see quite clearly that this was CSA. However, no one can force someone else to accept something or think a certain way about something. All we can do here is validate your thoughts and experiences with our own. Acknowledging and accepting that what happened to you was not okay, may be the first step. We, most likely, will not be able to answer your questions to the extent that you need. A therapist may help you get there....but everyone has to do things in their own time.

Stay strong. Seek support and get your questions answered. You will gain relief and the help needed to move forward.

Peace.

 

[ppippi]

Stay strong. Seek support and get your questions answered. You will gain relief and the help needed to move forward.

Peace.

Thank you so much for sharing sweetpainfulloving. It's clear for me to see from what you described that you were abused. mainly because you were touched and fondled and also because it happened multiple times. I feel ambivalent about what happened because if any boundaries were crossed, they were not physical ones. how bad can that be? and I couldn't tell you how many times it happened exactly but it could have just been that one time.

I think that because I was kidnapped by my dad and away from my mom and regular environment, it may have FELT like it was a big deal because i felt alone and scared.

I know I sound like Im in denial and im sorry about that but it is truly how i feel at this time.

Sometimes i wish worse things had happened to me, I wish i had been raped, fondled tied down etc. because that way at least there wouldnt be any back and forth in mind on whether it was wrong or not. The way I feel now would be justified.

I have intimacy issues, but what if it's just my personality? who knows.

 

[SweetPainfulLoving]

I know I sound like Im in denial and im sorry about that but it is truly how i feel at this time.

You don’t need to be sorry for anything. We each process things in our own way in our own time. Sometimes are brains are just not ready to let the memories, the knowledge, or the pain in.

[

sometimes i wish worse things had happened to me, I wish i had been raped, fondled tied down etc. because that way at least there wouldnt be any back and forth in mind on whether it was wrong or not. The way I feel now would be justified.

You sound like me....it wasn’t that bad.
I did that after the CSA and throughout my adult relationships as well. Emotional abuse is ‘invisible’ but those who are victims of it will tell you it is just as devastating as physical abuse. It is a mindf&ck because there is no injury to point to to prove that it happened. And people have a tendency to minimize the abuse and its affects because of that. That’s doesn’t mean the abuse didn’t happen. But it took me a LOOOOOONG time to see it for what it was, let alone acknowledge its affects on me. I also wished that, at some point, it had turned into something more ‘significant’....physical abuse....anything ,....at least then it would have been obvious, not just to me but to everyone.

Sometimes i wish worse things had happened to me, I wish i had been raped, fondled tied down etc. because that way at least there wouldnt be any back and forth in mind on whether it was wrong or not. The way I feel now would be justified.

I’m repeating this quote because I think it is really important to acknowledge your last sentence. “.....THE WAY I FEEL NOW WOULD BE JUSTIFIED.” You seem to be oscillating between whether this act was wrong or not, and trying to justify how you are feeling about it. I will just straight up tell you again that I believe this act to be wrong. Very wrong. Your additional information that it occurred after your father kidnapped you and the uncertainty about whether it was a one time event is certainly significant. Whatever you are feeling now is absolutely justified. Your feelings are your feelings. I stuffed mine down for years and all that did was prolong my ‘recovery’ and lead me to 2 very toxic relationships.

I urge you to seek therapy, if you are not already participating.

 

[Friday]

I think that because I was kidnapped by my dad and away from my mom and regular environment, it may have FELT like it was a big deal because i felt alone and scared.

:roflmao::hilarious::roflmao:
I’m laughing because this is soooooooo PTSD.

Hon, there is a picture of this thread in the dictionary, right next to “Burying The Lead” and cross referenced with “Minimization”.

And? That’s a great big huge whopping part of the context some of us were asking for earlier.

Pretty much everything that happens whilst you’re being abducted is going to be a big deal.

- Eating out of vending machines? Can be neglect, can be no big deal, can be a fun treat. There’s a very wide spectrum of possibilities depending on the context.
- Eating out of vending machines whilst being kidnapped? Big deal.

See how the first one CAN be a big deal? If you’re eating out of vending machines because you’re being neglected, that’s a big deal. Just because something can be normal doesn’t mean all-every example of type is normal.

And if you’re eating out of vending machines because you’ve been kidnapped? That’s a big deal, full stop. Regardless of whether the person is trying to make it fun, or you’re sneaking off to get the only food you can (if I could get to the vending machines, why not a phone to call for help??? <<< more self blame), or if you’re literally starving and being hit with a bag of peanuts once a week. Just because the last one is abusive doesn’t make the others okay... because... you’ve... been... kidnapped. It’s ALL a big deal.

Why am I using a snack food example instead of masturbation? Because even snack food, given in the friendliest best way possible, with all good intent is a big deal in the backdrop of being kidnapped.

OF COURSE you’re struggling with the masturbation thing.

You’d be well within your rights to be struggling with anything that happened, much less something sexual before you’re of age.

The way I feel now would be justified.

The way you feel? IS justified.

And I’m not saying that in an ‘all feeling are valid’ kind of way. (I don’t believe that, for one thing.) I’m saying that everything that happened, good bad or indifferent, in that scenario of your dad kidnapping you has the potential to be a very big deal. Doesn’t even have to be sexual or abusive, it could be a bag of cheetos, and it could be a total mindf*ck. For good reason.

 

[GWhizz]

I feel like it could possibly damage a child in a situation I described. It could cause them to be scared of men and men genitalia, it could cause the to keep relationships at an arms length, to feel like they need to be with a pedophile to connect with themselves to be with someone who exploits to feel cared for, it could cause them to be triggered by sexual abuse.

I recently watched the new MJ documentary and I was just triggered for days... One the one hand I was like how lucky were those boys to be abused by MJ and to be cared by him in that special way, but on an intellectual level I know what he did is sick.... So I guess it could cause someone to feel confused about love.


Is being scared of sex at 33 considered a sexual issue? Like wanting to have sex but being scared of the penis.


Let's say said child was standing by the bathroom door looking into bathroom where dad was masturbating and telling the child not be scared and to come in, come closer....all in a very loving, gentle warm kind way. The child felt scared though, not sure why. But there was not touching, just an invitation and encouragement to join in.


I don't mind if you go mental on this topic. I'd like to hear what you really think. You can PM if you feel more comfortable that way.

I think damaged is the wrong label to be looking to apply to yourself. Disturbed by it - definitely. And it can definitely mess up your perception of normal. I don’t know about wanting to be with a pedophile in order to connect... why? As a CSA survivor I detest pedophiles I definitely wouldn’t be seeking them out for personal healing.. the level of confusion you’re describing demonstrates that you need to explore this further with a trained professional who can guide and help you carefully navigate this, what I would describe as trauma on multiple levels - sexual, emotional etc..