News Donald Trump's Popularity To Date

[Deleted member 28740]

Maybe y'all are right and that having strong enough feelings to cause us anger/hate is needed to change the world.

I don't believe that anger or hate is ever a positive force for change.

 

[Justmehere]

Adamant disagreement is not the same as hating a person. Hating something like slavery isn't the same as hating people who committed slavery.

I agree that staying away from hating people and avoiding becoming bullies is very important. I am a Christian too (albeit a haphazard one) and there are many reasons why I think this is important, not the least of which is so that we don't turn into what we hate.

Asking people to seperate opinions from the people who have them is an interesting idea, and some may agree and some may not agree with you. That doesn't mean they hate you.

Different people have different paths to stay away from hate. For me, in my recovery from PTSD, it has been very important for me to see the whole people in an integrated way in order to not hate them. Almost all humans have good and bad in them, and a lot of grey too.

People need to be held accountable for their actions. I think Trump deserves to go to jail for inciting violence, but I don't wish vengeance on him. I don't hate him. At least I try not too. As MLK Jr. said, "hate does not drive out hate, only love can do that." MLK Jr adamantly and passionately disagreed with many powerful people, and he was not silent on this. He did work hard to not hate them.

I know a number of Trump supporters. Loving them means I have to respectfully disagree, and express it if it is useful. It means I have to have boundaries against inappropriate behavior. Sometimes love means not even engaging them. If I hate them or respond by attacking them, They shut down. However, some have changed their minds brought respectful dialogue - which has been hard because many have spit curse words and threats of violence at me. (And those that threaten ft the police called on them but I don't hate them.)

I have stood up a number of times in the traditional and non-traditional political arena, and made calls for civility, telling folks that name calling doesn't get us anywhere. Some have responded back to tell me things like "politics is a blood sport." But many have said they were in agreement. But being civil and respectful doesn't mean we don't stand up strongly and passionately, and even put our lives on the line - like Lincoln and MLK Jr and so many others.

For me, my desire to try to not hate is not really about the other person. It's about staying true to myself and who I want to be.

You have expressed you feel attacked and hated here, but I want to respectfully challenge you on that. Your ideas have been mostly treated with respect even when people have disagreed. Even passionately. I also think it's going a little far to compare the discussion on this thread to that of a typical discussion among Trump supporters. I have been in those types of conversations. There is little discussion and lots of cruel name calling. If this thread ever descends into the kind of typical discourse that occurs among groups of people who are mainly Trump supporters, this thread would be quickly locked and the posters banned.

A few of the quotes that you put in are statements do go a little too far. However, some of your quotes are actually things Trump has said himself and the poster was simply referencing them.

I can quickly call out Trump's desire for incest as a despicable horrible statement, without descending into hatred of anything but incest. Yes, I hate incest and I don't separate that opinion from the speaker, who is Trump. Trump deserves to not voted into office, a position of greater power, because of his beliefs. That doesn't mean I hate him or anybody who supports him.

You and your opinions are welcome here, even when people disagree.

 

[prayingforpeace]

Justmehere,

I appreciate your response to me. As to feeling hated, probably goes to my personal issues and my own ptsd. At one point I felt belittled but I can say it's been respectful overall. I don't want to argue my feelings as they are my feelings/my issues. It's intimidating for me to speak out. So, excuse me for that.

I also think it's going a little far to compare the discussion on this thread to that of a typical discussion among Trump supporters. I have been in those types of conversations

I never meant to compare the discussion on this thread to a "typical" discussion among Trump supporters. I was trying to say that, in the context of some of the comments posted about Trump, anyone arguing for him may say similar things about whoever criticizes him. I don't know what a "typical" trump discussion is. I think if one is being objective, some of the comments were very strong.

Again, I appreciate your statement and thank you for saying that I am welcome.

 

[Ellabella44]

@prayingforpeace have you even read the rest of the sentence you quoted?

"So I do not see this thread as bashing him or disagreeing with others, but really putting into words and facts on why those of us posting in it see him as a threat to being able to live in a civilized world."

Im not attacking anyone and sorry if you feel that way. I was just posting in the most neutral way I can that the thought of him becomming president is a scary thought. It was not even about your posts, so please dont take it that way.

I have sister in laws and brother in laws who want trump in office. I do not like them any less for it. It scares me that they would vote for him. Even knowing that I am among the different types of people that trump says should be jailed or silenced or otherwise discriminated against for more than one event in my life that caused my ptsd.

 

[prayingforpeace]

Ellabella44,

Actually yes, I did read your entire post. But the truth is that at times, the thread was bashing. I was not really commenting ON your post as much as I was trying to show that even though some people may think it never got "hateful" it did at times. Maybe my threshold is lower than others. I'm sorry that we see this differently, I never wanted to insult you or say you did anything wrong. I am also very sorry that you are put in a position of fear or even worry because of that man. I do not like him nor do I see him as fit for the office of president. Everyone has a right to hate trump, everyone has a right to speak up about it. He is a danger and I'm praying he has no chance. I do not know exactly how you feel but I pray that you and your family will be safe, always.

I almost regret saying anything because even though most of it may have been "respectful" it has been difficult for me to be the one (alone) on the OTHER side. I am yelling "uncle" because I just can't do it anymore. At times a single word was taken out of my overall meaning and I had to explain that. I get it that people do not like to be questioned, it causes defensiveness rather than honest reflection.

My point, again everyone, was always civility in debate and how hate does not change the hearts of others. I realize that people do NOT have to agree with me. It is clear. Its so interesting how much debate has resulted because I suggested a more respectful dialog, where we could treat others with dignity.

I said earlier that I felt hated and that's probably due to my own issues. However, there has been a vibe of "if you're not with us, you're against us". I think honest reflection will tell you that it's true.

 

[EveHarrington]

I think that if someone doesn't like what is said or how it's said in regards to Trump, perhaps it's best to move on. Trying to get us all to be civil (which is one of those subjective issues)-----probably isn't going to happen as again, "civil" is left up to interpretation.

As I was told by moderators awhile ago in another thread after I said that I didn't like the tone of something----there is no tone online. And while I don't necessarily think this is entirely true 100% of the time, it does hold true much of the time.

This is a debate thread that gets heated because I'd say most of us here are venting in one form or another. To be honest, dare I say we're scared shitless?! I don't think we are breaking rules AFAIK. Mods have been watching and participating in this thread since it started. If we were out of line, we would be warned. I've seen these warnings happen publicly elsewhere on the forum.

I welcome everyone to participate and share their opinion. Do I read everything in these political threads? No. If I don't like something I just skip on to the next reply. It's about taking the good, leaving the rest.

I hope people stay and contribute.

Please remember, much of what is said is said out of fear.

the FEAR is REAL!

 

[Justmehere]

CNN thinks the UK is having it's own Trump moment with the Brexit vote: http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/22/politics/eu-referendum-brexit-donald-trump/index.html

 

[scout86]

@prayingforpeace I totally agree that personal attacks usually aren't useful and I'm sorry if that's how I came off. And I agree that most of what you quoted is neither nice nor productive. (What @hodge said is, I think, a fairly accurate reflection of something Trump kind of said and, personally, I think it's worth quoting because who says that?) .

 

[joeylittle]

@prayingforpeace - I'll say that one of my jobs here as staff is to read everything as dispassionately and neutrally as I can. Most of the time, I'm confident in my ability to do so.

I think it's been a really civil discussion, around the topic you brought up - the suggestion that both sides be able to debate and discuss without hate.

I'm glad you acknowledged that you might be prone (because of how your PTSD works) to feel out on a limb/exposed by putting your opinions forward...I honestly think that's happening here. Because this:

ps I knew I'd get some less than loving responses but I didn't think what I said would cause the reaction it actually did.

i really don't see the reaction you are talking about - unless the reaction is a bunch of people engaging on why it is tricky to separate the candidate from their message, sometimes. But you seem to be implying that you've gotten responses that are worse than 'less than loving'...and its not clear to me where those are.

I'm pointing this out not as an attack, but to challenge your assumption about how other people are responding, and specifically, the subconscious 'scripting' you might be doing in seeing animosity where there is none.

I said earlier that I felt hated and that's probably due to my own issues. However, there has been a vibe of "if you're not with us, you're against us". I think honest reflection will tell you that it's true.

I've honestly reflected - and no, I don't see that. I can see some very uncensored opinions, but that is par for the course with this entire board.

Ultimately I can only speak for myself: for my part, I don't buy into the notion that if you aren't with us, you're against us. It's not what I'm putting forward, purposefully or unconsciously - because I'm very opposed to that kind of groupthink.

And I wasn't personally comfortable letting that statement implicate me in judging you. I've got no negative judgement of you whatsoever. I'm only frustrated that I think you are seeing negativity directed at you where there is none.

Because, to bring it back to topic: we've been talking about how to hear and respond to opposing viewpoints, and we've been doing it pretty thoroughly and respectfully. So, I don't think I agree with your observation that it's just not possible - if I'm reading you correctly, I think that's what you are saying. But please correct me if I'm wrong (honest, not snark).

 

[Weemie]

@prayingforpeace

Believe me, I have less than zero regrets about my statement and believe firmly that it holds far more compassion than Trump has ever shown a single other human being.

 

[EveHarrington]

Back to Trump bashing!

Trump went to Scotland to his golf resort.

Even his Scottish neighbors hate him!

One has a Mexican flag planted at the edge of their property boundary with him.

He's lied to them, too!

Claimed that his resort would create 1,200 jobs. Only created 95, most of which are seasonal.

Claims a lower profit than anticipated according to US records. UK records actually show a multi million dollar LOSS since it opened in 2012.

Let's not forget that he inherited his $$$$$ and that he'd have a lot more $$$$$ if he put it in the bank and invested it.

I don't buy his claims that he is worth $10 billion.

 

[Justmehere]

I don't know if anyone believes he is worth the amount he says he is worth... Except for some of the 14 million who voted for him!

Yikes.