My husband works for a hospital, they are self insured and only allow certain drs and therapists which is very limited. (2 gastro drs out of 10 in area,) They have a mental health center with 3 therapist, all who can not see me because of conflict of interest due to my former job. They allowed this therapist to see me under EAP but limited visits. When those were used, they put me on waiting list for 10 months for a new therapist they hired. I saw her once then she left their agency. After this hospitalization in their facility, their treatment plan-they ordered psychiatrist, group, and individual therapy, all of which was denied. That was 8 yrs ago...there has been no continuity. They approved therapy a couple yrs ago and then took funds away from therapist and said they made mistake...she had to apply to be special provider and pay $300. She did that. Eventually they raised co pay to $60 with $1000 deductible. It has been a fight for 8 yrs and I give up. I have gotten no better and am much worse. There are more details I can't recall at moment but they are determined to pay for nothing, yet we pay $400 month for this insurance. Further, the only 3 psychiatrists in town are owned by them, and they will not even let you see if you pay cash. There has been a waiting list for 8 years. I find this inhumane. It is like they want you to self medicate, overdose, and go IP crisis unit 5 days in their facility where nothing changes. Released with no help. I am pissed off for me, but I am pissed off that they can get away with it. They also withheld diagnosis and treatment for brain injury since 2006 accident. I have never been allowed any testing through insurance. They did do sleep test and say I have abnormal sleep disorder from TBI but no treatment but pills to stay awake, but took away since it caused weight loss. They are the problem in my opinion...but I feel like I am just blaming them...as I should be able to overcome all this on my own.
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Angela Corgan
Bronze Member
I have come to the conclusion that the constant irritation I would let take over if I wasn't vigilante, comes from fear, shame and very bad upbringing. Nothing is going to bring the Justice I long for into my life at the decades of a one sided War of Attrition from a tiny baby (yes really) to two years ago age 56 when my 'father tried yet again'. Nothing will ever make sense of his and my families warped behaviour. But instead of holding on to 'mess' I just want to MOVE ON. The biggest action of Inner Reparations, will release the positive energies I need for real positive, integration and CHANGE. Plus the vibes I am sending out - total cut off, no nastiness from me, not getting sucked back in, I hope will lead to the fulfilling of potentials in my life - the very ones my family set out to destroy. Hope that helps a little.
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- #51
D
Deleted member 33052
@Angela Corgan, I'm glad you're here with us, Angela! We can all help each other on this healing journey.
Rainsong
Bronze Member
@Mal Content @Ragdoll Circus
My anger came like a tornado once I learned self compassion. I think I was madly in rage for nearly year, and it helped me stop making excuses for the people in my life who were hurting me. I started believing that nobody has the right to treat me bad, no matter the circumstances. I found my self worth through that anger, and it liberated me from the main part of the guilt and shame. I remember a strong voice inside me repeating NO MORE. Over and over again, NO MORE. I used the power in anger to stomp my feet and stand my ground.
Took me ten years to get there, and I'm glad I did. It's a process, I think you will get there at some point
My anger came like a tornado once I learned self compassion. I think I was madly in rage for nearly year, and it helped me stop making excuses for the people in my life who were hurting me. I started believing that nobody has the right to treat me bad, no matter the circumstances. I found my self worth through that anger, and it liberated me from the main part of the guilt and shame. I remember a strong voice inside me repeating NO MORE. Over and over again, NO MORE. I used the power in anger to stomp my feet and stand my ground.
Took me ten years to get there, and I'm glad I did. It's a process, I think you will get there at some point
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Sideways
VIP Member
@Rainsong - honestly I almost whinced when @Mal Content mentioned anger following self compassion, because self-compassion is my therapy nemesis. The last time I got set self-compassion homework by my T it sent me into a massive nosedive, and I very nearly ended up returning to my self-harm habits to get control of things!
Self-compassion is a much more important goal for me than anger, and I'm actually kind of surprised to hear them get linked (although it makes good sense). Unfortunately I'm a long long way from tolerating (much less accepting) self-compassion, and at the moment, the goal is to stay self-neutral (as opposed to my usual self-loathing).
Baby steps. Teeny tiny baby steps. Good to know there's still hope though.
Self-compassion is a much more important goal for me than anger, and I'm actually kind of surprised to hear them get linked (although it makes good sense). Unfortunately I'm a long long way from tolerating (much less accepting) self-compassion, and at the moment, the goal is to stay self-neutral (as opposed to my usual self-loathing).
Baby steps. Teeny tiny baby steps. Good to know there's still hope though.
Rainsong
Bronze Member
Yes, the anger took me by surprise too, I didn't see that link coming at all. It just exploded after I went to trauma therapy for a long time in a hospital specializing in that area. They also had a really kind and wonderful female priest there, that I went to for counseling at the same time (it was optional). I'm not religious myself, but was brought up in a Christian cult, so I needed perspective on that. Something unlocked in my brain. Before that, I could rationally understand I was worth something, that every human had worth, but I never truly believed it when it came to me. After, I believed it in my bones, I could feel it was true for the first time ever. And then I got angry, because I finally understood that nobody had the right to hurt me. Not my parents, not my siblings, not anyone.
Keep at the baby steps, even if it's really, really hard work. For me it took ten years of nosedives, ups and downs, months and years of depressions, massive anxiety attacks, rollercoaster emotions, but I got there in the end. You are doing good work, and there is definitely light at the end of the tunnel.
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- #55
D
Deleted member 33052
@Rainsong I'm so glad to know that you've found self-compassion. That, more than anything, has allowed me to come to life.
@Ragdoll Circus I wish this was easier for you. If you're interested, I learned one very simple habit that allowed my self-compassion to develop almost without thought. I'm not trying to push you, though. I just wanted to throw that out there if and when you feel ready...
@Ragdoll Circus I wish this was easier for you. If you're interested, I learned one very simple habit that allowed my self-compassion to develop almost without thought. I'm not trying to push you, though. I just wanted to throw that out there if and when you feel ready...
Changing4Best
VIP Member
I've been told that holding a grudge and not forgiving is like swallowing poison and expecting the other person to die.
On the other hand, my father was a man who held grudges for 30 years and beyond. My mother, on the other hand, was a forgiving person. So I kind of learned to do both.
Also, to me, forgiveness is kind of a process. You make the decision to forgive, and then you spend a lifetime doing it, sometimes having to start all over again too.
There is the small stuff, like your boyfriend does not call you on Valentine's Day and has been out of touch for a month. Then he calls me yesterday (the Saturday after the holiday), says he had some problems and apologizes for having been so out of touch. Then he asks for forgiveness. (This happened yesterday, so it is fresh in my mind). I asked him if he handled the problems. He said that he had. So I forgave him, what else could I do? I SAID I forgave him anyway. In my heart and soul, I am still a bit peeved. I am glad he called. I am happy he is OK. I am relieved that I did not do something that severed our relationship (like I thought I had) and that whatever happened was NOT MY FAULT, (thank God)! I always think it is my fault when things like this happen. I have been told that I should not take things so personally, but I always seem to do so anyway, and often I find out later that it was and is NOT MY FAULT.
This happened again this morning. I thought someone was kind of mad at me or avoiding me because they had been so out of touch. I ran into them this morning, and they talked with me just like nothing at all was wrong! Again, I was relieved. I was glad that they were friendly.
As to forgiving ourselves, this one is sometimes the hardest. I'm still working on it. I am trying not to blame myself for having been the victim of date rape years ago (different boyfriend). My therapist pointed out one thing to me about that though this week: she said, "You are still alive, you are here, so you must have done something right." I could not argue that fact! Yes, I had tried to fight him off. He was too strong, however, so I failed. I did stop trying once I realized he was stronger than me. I have to forgive myself for not trying harder to fight him off. I loved him, so I did not try to hurt him. Do I blame myself for that? No. I'm a gentle person.
I beat someone up once when I was a kid. He ended up in the hospital with a concussion and broken ribs.
If I had wanted to, I could have wounded my boyfriend and stopped him from date raping me probably. Should I have? Maybe. I am not sure. Being in love with the person complicates that issue. Do I forgive him for what he did? (Especially since I said that I did not feel well). I'm trying to, mainly because to be bitter in my heart and soul now about it years later does me no good. My bitterness does not hurt him in the slightest. He probably does not even think he did anything wrong, even though he did, terribly wrong. He did not hurt me physically. However, he broke my heart. He showed me that he did not care about me and how I felt. He showed me that night that he only cared about his needs, not mine. That hurt, and it still does. SO I AM NOT DONE FORGIVING HIM YET. I know that now, in thinking it all over. So thanks for the opportunity to ponder all this. I still need to work on this....
On the other hand, my father was a man who held grudges for 30 years and beyond. My mother, on the other hand, was a forgiving person. So I kind of learned to do both.
Also, to me, forgiveness is kind of a process. You make the decision to forgive, and then you spend a lifetime doing it, sometimes having to start all over again too.
There is the small stuff, like your boyfriend does not call you on Valentine's Day and has been out of touch for a month. Then he calls me yesterday (the Saturday after the holiday), says he had some problems and apologizes for having been so out of touch. Then he asks for forgiveness. (This happened yesterday, so it is fresh in my mind). I asked him if he handled the problems. He said that he had. So I forgave him, what else could I do? I SAID I forgave him anyway. In my heart and soul, I am still a bit peeved. I am glad he called. I am happy he is OK. I am relieved that I did not do something that severed our relationship (like I thought I had) and that whatever happened was NOT MY FAULT, (thank God)! I always think it is my fault when things like this happen. I have been told that I should not take things so personally, but I always seem to do so anyway, and often I find out later that it was and is NOT MY FAULT.
This happened again this morning. I thought someone was kind of mad at me or avoiding me because they had been so out of touch. I ran into them this morning, and they talked with me just like nothing at all was wrong! Again, I was relieved. I was glad that they were friendly.
As to forgiving ourselves, this one is sometimes the hardest. I'm still working on it. I am trying not to blame myself for having been the victim of date rape years ago (different boyfriend). My therapist pointed out one thing to me about that though this week: she said, "You are still alive, you are here, so you must have done something right." I could not argue that fact! Yes, I had tried to fight him off. He was too strong, however, so I failed. I did stop trying once I realized he was stronger than me. I have to forgive myself for not trying harder to fight him off. I loved him, so I did not try to hurt him. Do I blame myself for that? No. I'm a gentle person.
I beat someone up once when I was a kid. He ended up in the hospital with a concussion and broken ribs.
If I had wanted to, I could have wounded my boyfriend and stopped him from date raping me probably. Should I have? Maybe. I am not sure. Being in love with the person complicates that issue. Do I forgive him for what he did? (Especially since I said that I did not feel well). I'm trying to, mainly because to be bitter in my heart and soul now about it years later does me no good. My bitterness does not hurt him in the slightest. He probably does not even think he did anything wrong, even though he did, terribly wrong. He did not hurt me physically. However, he broke my heart. He showed me that he did not care about me and how I felt. He showed me that night that he only cared about his needs, not mine. That hurt, and it still does. SO I AM NOT DONE FORGIVING HIM YET. I know that now, in thinking it all over. So thanks for the opportunity to ponder all this. I still need to work on this....
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- #57
D
Deleted member 33052
@SheilaKathy :hug: I'm sorry you had to go through that. Please know that you did the best you could in that situation. Things could have gone very differently if you had fought him.
Maybe I don't understand forgiveness. I thought that if you forgive someone, you're free of that hurt and it never hurts you again. And I've only found that freedom through acceptance.
Maybe I don't understand forgiveness. I thought that if you forgive someone, you're free of that hurt and it never hurts you again. And I've only found that freedom through acceptance.
Changing4Best
VIP Member
I'd say the memory of it still hurts, sometimes, even though he did not hurt me physically. The violation of my rights as a human being who has choices hurt then and still does hurt now. I had the choice to say "No." and be listened to and respected and I wasn't. He didn't respect my rights. He didn't respect my wishes. I try to forgive him for that, but sometimes I cannot completely and fully do so. I want to forgive him in my mind, but my heart and soul still hurts. I think that is the way to put it anyway.
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- #59
D
Deleted member 33052
@SheilaKathy, this is exactly my problem with forgiveness. I want to put it behind me, but that doesn't heal the pain. I doubt that any of us want to carry the hurt. We have the right to be happy.
Lola Nocheprieta
Diamond Member
I think there must be different ways that people understand both concepts, that is, what it means to hold a grudge, and what it means to forgive someone. I think you can let go of holding a grudge without forgiving the person. To me, holding a grudge means being consumed with the pain and anger at the person, which gets reignited easily. This might come out by ruminating on how they treated me, or always bringing up what the other person did in the past, or not giving someone a second chance. There is a difference between "holding a grudge" and "holding someone accountable." Grudges are also different than setting boundaries with people based on past experience. A grudge can really hurt the person holding it, because it prolongs the pain. Mal, what do you think? Is it that other people want you to behave differently, to "forgive and forget?" Do you think you are holding a grudge? If so, how does that impact you?
For me, I don't hold grudges, it's just not in my nature. I'm a very patient person, and I have a long fuse. It takes a lot for me to get really wound up (anger), but not that much for me to be hurt (sadness.) I usually try to assume the best about the other person if I don't have actual facts in front of me, or try to see it from their pov. That said, I can walk away from someone or set boundaries if someone is consistently behaving badly toward me. I will never again allow someone to constantly hurt me, bully me, betray me, or abuse me.
There are smaller hurts, things that happen in all relationships, e.g., with my wife, my family, our close friends. These are unintentional, and never "below the belt." I can forgive that person if s/he has taken the opportunity to make it right. Sometimes a simple "I'm sorry" will suffice, but it really has to be sincere, and validating. "I'm so sorry I hurt you, honey. That wasn't my intention, but I can see the impact my words/behavior had on you. I'm glad you said something, because it helps me understand you better. I'm really sorry."
My mom and I had a conversation over a year ago, and her response was pretty cold and detached and invalidating ... and she's not even my abuser! She's usually really cool. So I guess you could say I'm holding a grudge. I'm not angry, but I'm so hurt. I've pulled way back, and she doesn't know why. I haven't yet given her the opportunity for us to discuss it, and maybe for her to say that she sees my pov (validation) and say "I'm sorry" (asking for forgiveness.) I guess the quote I wrote in the previous paragraph is what I'm really hoping to hear from my mom.
On the other hand, there are apologies that are totally invalidating, and yet the person expects you to forgive and forget! To that I simply say, f*ck that shit. Such "apologies" add insult to injury.
Forgiveness, if it happens, probably occurs in its own time, on its own schedule. I don't know if it comes before or after the pain subsides. There is some pain that will never subside, or will take years, and more like, ebb and flow, rather than subside. Like with my dad, I don't think I will ever forgive him. That's not my goal. I tried, in my 20s, to let the anger out, and then to forgive him. But I think I was just going through the motions. My goal is to forgive myself, to validate my own feelings, and to have self-compassion. I hope that by working on these three things, that I can find some peace.
I wish for peace for you, too, Mal. :hug:s & chocolate!
For me, I don't hold grudges, it's just not in my nature. I'm a very patient person, and I have a long fuse. It takes a lot for me to get really wound up (anger), but not that much for me to be hurt (sadness.) I usually try to assume the best about the other person if I don't have actual facts in front of me, or try to see it from their pov. That said, I can walk away from someone or set boundaries if someone is consistently behaving badly toward me. I will never again allow someone to constantly hurt me, bully me, betray me, or abuse me.
There are smaller hurts, things that happen in all relationships, e.g., with my wife, my family, our close friends. These are unintentional, and never "below the belt." I can forgive that person if s/he has taken the opportunity to make it right. Sometimes a simple "I'm sorry" will suffice, but it really has to be sincere, and validating. "I'm so sorry I hurt you, honey. That wasn't my intention, but I can see the impact my words/behavior had on you. I'm glad you said something, because it helps me understand you better. I'm really sorry."
My mom and I had a conversation over a year ago, and her response was pretty cold and detached and invalidating ... and she's not even my abuser! She's usually really cool. So I guess you could say I'm holding a grudge. I'm not angry, but I'm so hurt. I've pulled way back, and she doesn't know why. I haven't yet given her the opportunity for us to discuss it, and maybe for her to say that she sees my pov (validation) and say "I'm sorry" (asking for forgiveness.) I guess the quote I wrote in the previous paragraph is what I'm really hoping to hear from my mom.
On the other hand, there are apologies that are totally invalidating, and yet the person expects you to forgive and forget! To that I simply say, f*ck that shit. Such "apologies" add insult to injury.
Forgiveness, if it happens, probably occurs in its own time, on its own schedule. I don't know if it comes before or after the pain subsides. There is some pain that will never subside, or will take years, and more like, ebb and flow, rather than subside. Like with my dad, I don't think I will ever forgive him. That's not my goal. I tried, in my 20s, to let the anger out, and then to forgive him. But I think I was just going through the motions. My goal is to forgive myself, to validate my own feelings, and to have self-compassion. I hope that by working on these three things, that I can find some peace.
I wish for peace for you, too, Mal. :hug:s & chocolate!
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