Forgiveness - Is This A Necessary Part Of True Healing From Abuse?

[ms spock]

I hear what you are saying here, Ms Spock, and I can understand how this concept would be infinitely unsatisfying to anyone who has experienced real abuse.

The concept of karma can help some people get through their hardship, but for others it is cold comfort and almost insulting, and I can see how it woul dnot help that type of person in the healing process.

I think it is important to stay in reality with these things.

Thank you Phillipa!

 

[Philippa]

Some animals can never have hands near them again after being tortured by human hands. Some animals will engage in stereotypic activities (obsessive and repetative behaviours) and can never be stopped from doing them.

Some animals will continuously self multilate and begin again when any thing resembling that trauma arises in their area.

Actually, the more I read your posts, the more I feel like my original statement was just ignorant.

My own kitten did not come out from her safe hole when I first brought her home, for nearly 10 days, and only stayed out when I decided to give her a little nudge and picked her up by her scruff and then blocked off all entrances to her hidey hole, so she had to stay out and explore her new environement.

I do remember she was very affectionate with me one minute, and then hissed at me when I came near her. She was abandoned with her siblings on the street when they found them, so there has been some aggression at times which I've wondered about. I just make sure I give her lots of affection, when she comes to me for it, and hold her securely so she knows I won't drop her or hurt her, and just give her lots of love and kindness, and yummy food and fresh water, and play with her.

 

[Shellbell]

I definitely agree that forgiveness is a joke if the person thinks it is to do with the abuser - whoever they be and whatever they did.

For me, forgiveness is not about the abuser. They don't deserve forgiveness. It's about me and for me.

 

[Philippa]

I see forgiveness in the same light.

I guess, for a lot of people, they see it as meaning that somehow, if they forgive, that it's like saying those people got away with what they did, and almost saying "it's no big deal". I don't see it that way either.

 

[ms spock]

I think it would have been partially that whole programming, where everyone HAS to forgive their parents, since...well, "they're your PARENTS" as if you have to or something.

So that is not helpful. And often not based in reality of what the parents did to the child.

But also, your friends might have just wanted to see you be at peace and feel good again, which many people experience when they finally are able to forgive someone who hurt them.

There really needs to be proper research done to see if people actually do find peace if they are able to forgive people who grievously hurt them. And I don't mean those normal day to day mistakes that people make.

If your friends are trying to force you to "inner piece" outside of your own healing process, then what needs does it meet within them to have you slot in to the 'forgiveness model'. I think that these are important questions to ask.

Often the forgiveness seems to be more important than the person or the reality.

There are different levels of hurt though, and I can definitely see how at a certain level of abuse, the idea of forgiveness is just a joke.

And that is where the abuse of other people's reality and life story comes in.

It is also where people do themselves in when they try to cut off parts of themselves to fit in to the "forgiveness model".

I have seen it used to convince people not to take police action. So it a real worry.

 

[Shellbell]

My idea of forgiveness doesn't include not taking appropriate police action. I would always recommend people informing the police of illegal actions - such as child abuse, domestic violence etc.

I don't believe anyone should be forced, or made to feel they have a duty or obligation to forgive. I agree that is very unhealthy.

I don't believe anyone should think they have to. It needs to something someone wants to do and it's absolutely okay if they don't.

 

[Philippa]

So that is not helpful. And often not based in reality of what the parents did to the child.

Oh it's definitely not helpful to be told that...and by your friends as well. I've had that said to me and I couldn't say anything. Anytime I did try and explain he would just say stuff like "what have YOU got to grieve about?" without even knowing anything about my history.

He was obsessed with feeling guilty about having so much in the western world, compared to people in the third world, adn felt guilty about EVERYTHING.

Apparently, just because I live in the first world, it means I have nothing to complain about and should just shut up because nothing I've been through even compares to what millions of children are going through right now in Sudan and Ethiopia. Totally invalidating my own experience because HE felt guilty.

Why is it that friends and family are so abysmal at this, and strangers seem to be so good at showing real compassion? It's confounding.

There really needs to be proper research done to see if people actually do find peace if they are able to forgive them. And I don't mean those normal day to day mistakes that people make.

But I think that is what people are comparing abuse to when they say stuff like this. They have no idea so they just think of what they consider to be forgivable and go from their own experiences, without really putting themselves in other peoples shoes.

I don't agree with anyone saying those words to people in pain. If the individual comes to that decision in time, then it is up to her/him.

If your friends are trying to force you to "inner piece" outside of your own healing process, then what needs does it meet within them to have you slot in to the 'forgiveness model'. I think that these are important questions to ask.

Yeah, I agree.

I think that often, because everyone is so self-obsessed and self-absorbed, especially in adulthood, seeing someone in pain reminds them of their own pain and parental issues, and it's too hard for them to look, or they don't want to, so they just revert to the age old thing that everyone had told them whenever they have tried to speak openly about their own pain.

And that is where the abuse of other people's reality and life story comes in. It is also where people do themselves in when they try to cut off parts of themselves to fit in to the "forgiveness model" and I have seen it used to convince people not to take police action. So it a real worry.

Again, I think this is a different definition of what forgiveness means here. I think I said that a while back.

I don't think of forgiveness as being something to be used in such situations, but I know that many people DO think that, and will advise their friend to "give him one more chance...make it work..."for the children's sake":rolleyes:

 

[ms spock]

I definitely agree that forgiveness is a joke if the person thinks it is to do with the abuser - whoever they be and whatever they did.

For me, forgiveness is not about the abuser. They don't deserve forgiveness. It's about me and for me.

Most people think that it is about forgiving the abuser.

 

[Shellbell]

Most people think that it is about forgiving the abuser.

I agree, and that is why I said in my first post about this, that for me it isn't about the abuser at all. In no way shape or form do any of them deserve forgiveness at all.

 

[Philippa]

To me, forgiveness isn't about the abuser at all...it's not saying that they have 'won' or that you are letting them off the hook...it's saying that you are no longer willing to carry around the anger and hatred and pain that they caused you, which is only making your life bad.

 

[ms spock]

You insight is heartening Phillipa.

 

[Philippa]

Thankyou Ms Spock.

I'm so glad it could reach you.