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Friend with cancer, refusing treatment: is this bpd?

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So you start with you, looking after you. How's your emotional state dealing with this? Is this perhaps cutting a bit close to the bone hearing someone say these things? Watching someone appear to give up when you've had to fight tooth and nail all these years?
I think you hit the nail on the head.

I called the cancer society and was connected to a free phone counseling service with licensed counselors for supporters of people wih cancer. OMG, I wish they had this for supporters of people with PTSD. It's was so good!

I was able to read the messages for word for word to them, and the counselor said this isn't a cancer situation, it's a mental health one, but she is glad to help.

We planned a handful of phone counseling sessions. As we talked, I was able to connect with the reality that this stirs up past losses for me and some complex personal issues about cancer and terminal illness. I told my regular therapist about it, and she was super supportive.

At first, I didn't tell the phone counselor, this feels like a slow suicide --- they came to that impression on their own. They said this sounds like it's crossed the line into delusional paranoia too. They suggested some good action steps.

I'm following through on them today.

I'm also taking space to deal with everything that this has stirred up for me - it's much more than I first realized.
 
@Justmehere - that's so brilliant! Go you for reaching out, getting some quality support and doing something with it. The turn around in your post (and this may be me projecting Ragdoll issues slightly!) is huge: instead of what she's doing and how she's feeling and what she's planning, the focus is back where it belongs. What can I do? What can I do to help me? And what can I do to help the both of us?

I'm glad they were able to clarify the situation with her mental health - it won't be the first time they've come across this issue. They sound like good eggs and I'm glad you found them
 
@Justmehere - I agree, I think it's great you're reaching out and getting support.

[[Start Rant]] I also wanted to share a similar experience a friend of mine is having with her daughter-in-law. D-in-L was diagnosed with a recurrence of cancer last November. She refused to see the oncologist after her diagnosis and decided to try a variety of alternative treatments - raw food diet, energy healing, weed extract, trip to a cancer "spa" in Mexico. Now granted, her cancer did not have a very good prognosis, but there were experimental treatments available and centers offering them very close to where she lives (I'm in the drug research field, so I helped Mom look these things up). She refused any of the "Western" treatments. She is now (8 months later) in late stage - constant pain, untreatable fluid build up, organ failure and has agreed to palliative care. She has two children under the age of 7.

I've had to distance myself from the whole situation (which is easier for me than you, as I'm two degrees away) because it makes me so angry. I survived a cancer with a very bad prognosis...and the brutal cancer treatment that accompanies this sort of diagnosis. It sucks. And actually, suicidal depression sucks worse...so I do understand the attraction of "death by cancer", but most folks (and some have mentioned it here) don't really know what that looks like. It's ugly and painful and prolonged. And it makes me angry that someone who has young children chose to do this. Her children are watching her die and not understanding any of it. [[Rant over]]
 
Yeah, I have been through a pretty brutal life-threatening health battle myself. And it is a little like... well great, I had to fight but you get to just give up and die? I know that's not exactly what's happening, but it sure can feel like it. I fight every day to live... so hard...

I also know what it's like to be pressured into medical care I just couldn't get myself to agree to do. And I get it, this is not just a walk in the park to treat even a cancer with a high cure rate. She has so many mixed up beliefs about what even cancer is and what treatment is like... but it's pretty unlikely she'll get care. I think I'm realizing how much this all goes to very core beliefs she isn't interested in changing.

There was more chaos and nonsense around all of it today, because she's now triangulating and splitting people in her life - so much for the dramatic declaration of isolating - instead of dealing with this in a better way...

My holding any boundaries with her is now seen as horrible because she has cancer and all.

I had asked two weeks ago if she wanted to come to the pool with me, my expense - she had mentioned it as something she wanted to do before and I was going - I wrote, "Want to come sit pool side with me today? I'll come pick you up if you want, my treat. If you don't want to come, that's totally cool too. Do whatever is best for you. :)" Now two weeks later /she is telling others to call me about how I mesAged her her the trying to pressure her into coming to the pool to tell her to get chemo 2 weeks ago and I was so wrong for doing this, how could I...

I'm setting boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. I was also able to convince others of what actually happened, so they are kind to aware she's not coping well. :/

I think at the end of the day it comes down to isn't what she is or saint doing... but what I have the capacity to do or not do. I'm not a good friend to her if I drown myself while trying to be there for her. I'd go to the ends of the earth if I could, but I can't and it wouldn't help.

There's a lot of dark and difficult places I can be with someone in... and this turns out to probably not be one of them.

STUPID F*CKING CANCER. Ugh. Trying to remember it's ok to walk away. I know I can't help. I'll just make it worse right now.

In while, a week or so, I'll write her and really advocate for counseling.
 
@Justmehere you haven't mentioned what type of cancer she has, and you don't have too... but I'm wondering if maybe it's spread to her brain, and she's not thinking straight??? Maybe not, maybe she's just looking for the old poor me angle too and wanting people to feel sorry for her.

Right now, the important thing is taking care of YOU!!!! And trying not to take everything she says and does personal. Yeah, I know, not so easy!!!!,
 
Sounds like my dad. Head in the sand, say it isn't so and it isn't and believe anything on the internet or tv. It doesn't sound like BPD. I have BPD and I don't do one of those things. I never self diagnose nor do I do holostic and though I don't go to the Dr as soon as I get a runny nose or a cough, I do go if its not better in like a week. And certianly would be there if I had cancer! Likely annoying the Drs being too involved in my own healthcare.

A touch manliputive with the family healthcare thing and my own therapist as well as my pain dr says I am not the "typical BPDer" missing this massive maniliputive part but manily BPD, at least in my life, is a super exteme emotional roller coaster/emotional deregulation and distress intolerance. Yep, ripped off the front of the DBT workbook but very true nonetheless. Add self injury, fear of rejection, instable relationships, black & white thinking (all I have) with the manipulation and you have basically BPD. Most think of it as just manipulative or think of it manily due to that but its way more. And remember, all will have each symptom more or less. More of this and less of that. So, manipultive may be a less symptom.

But, nah, it sounds like she is in severe denial and ignorant about internet to me. Just personally, from someone with BPD.
 
No offense @lostforgottensoul, but I think, in a lot of cases, BPD is a bullsh*t diagnosis that was invented before there was a) more understanding of the impact of childhood trauma and b) less understanding about the limits the therapies that were considered standard might not be so helpful. Best not for me to go into full rant about the abuses by psychotherapists based on the "borderline" diagnosis in this thread...I have very strong feelings about this....

@Justmehere - based on your description, yes, your friend fits a lot of the criteria for BPD. Knowing this, does it help you? Does diagnosing her help you? I'm pretty sure my friend's D-in-L would be diagnosed as narcissistic. If knowing this helps - great. If defining your friend's behavior (for example, splitting), helps, then great. Sometimes it's good to be able to "name" what's going on. Actually, naming what's going on can be really really helpful. But naming and diagnosing in order to explain and dismiss is the opposite.

What I'm trying to say is...your friend is messed up. You have validation that this is true. You still love your friend and that makes things complicated. Can you find a place of radical acceptance with these contradictions and then move forward in a way that is the most healthy choice for you?
 
Update:

I connected with my therapist today, and she told me that she thought the healthiest decision for how I can care for my friend is to walk away for now. It's the hardest thing. I want to run to the ends of the earth to help her...

It isn't brain cancer but there is no way to know if it has spread in a way to affect her thinking. She won't see a doctor. She got the diagnosis and stage (early stage 2) about 7 months ago, and walked out and never went back to a doctor. She is very unwell, physically and mentally, and right now, she won't let me be a supporter in the way that I'm able to handle without losing my sh*t, and if anything, I'm a distraction from her getting help. I'm the target too of a number of things that are crossing into delusional thinking.

I've left the door open for connection, but I am not going to initiate contact with her for now. I have reached out to a few others who know her just to say I'm taking space and very worried about her mental state, and they are going to try to reach out to her. They have told me she told them some of her delusions about the FDA and me, and are quite worried too... but they are not subjects of the paranoia. I'm the closest friend, so I'm told it makes sense she's focused on me, and it's better to back way up. My therapist said it's better to pull in others to be a network of support for her as this plays out.

And it's so hard to walk away. I miss her. Damn it.

Thanks for the support all, it's been really good to have this place to reach out and help sort this out. Thank you so much.
 
Sorry it's come to this, but your T sounds right. Trying to be a supporter for her, right now, isn't working for either of you. Any way you come at it, it's a pretty awful situation, but I think maybe the pre-cancer rational version of your friend would tell you to take care of you.
 
I'm sick with a stupid fever and posting this here because I need someone to probably tell me to sto...

Hi, Justmehere,

Here's my two cents as a Borderline: I've been diagnosed with BPD for nearly seven years, and have lived most if not all of my adult life with it.
According to what I've learned over the years, from therapists and also my own research, there's only abatement of Borderline symptoms-no cure exists, just diligent self-awareness to keep them at bay.
I don't want to talk down to you or anybody, as you may already know this: Dr. Judith Henry, who's researched and made some great leaps forward in her BPD studies put it best, stating that those with BPD are "condemned to live a lonely life."
Our problems, without exception, stem from being in an abusive environment for extended times at a young, impressionable age, usually as kids, from which the possibility of escape is nonexistent or otherwise visible.
Eventually, when we can finally be free of the situation, we learn the harsh truth that our experiences follow us wherever we go.
We usually hurt many people along the way, as we try to break free from our past, often without realizing it. Not until we're diagnosed do we finally have the chance, if we are open to doing so, to realize what's happened.
Guilt, shame, and regret dominate-and I can't ever say so without it breaking me down and in tears, (as I am now), as I think back on my life.
I'm 51 now, but the same would be true for me at any age, and that's why Dr. Herman's right: No matter how many people I've lived with or around, I have lived a lonely life.
So has your friend. Think now of how many others are in her life. There likely may not be any others, and so you may realize that your caring so much for her might be rooted in the fact that it's up to you to grieve the loss of your friend, even while she's still here. It is a sad and unfortunate notion.
I can relate to you both, for as I step outside myself and look back, I grieve the life I've lived, and I'd be lying if I said there weren't times I wish I wasn't here anymore.
On an academic level I can see the mechanism at work; on an emotional level, it gets the best of me, as it may do to your friend.
We simply can't help how we feel sometimes, and just have to ride out the feelings until they go back to the hellish place from which they came.
That said, your friend, like me, has been carrying an emotional cancer all her life, and she's at the end of her rope. I've been there, too, and the only thing I want to do is be as comfortable as possible until I die.
It may be the reason your friend talks about the symbolic farm she'd like to retire to until she reaches her ultimate end.
There's a difference, of course, between being unable to do anything but wish you were dead and actually taking your own life.
But being on the receiving end of someone else's horrible energy, with no recourse but to endure it and hope against hope to survive, I believe in the energy each of us carry.
That energy can be something wonderful we're capable of sharing with others, and we do. We're still only human, and so we must, even in the twisted form we often create because it's all we know.
But, like a revolver, we can turn that energy on ourselves and take our own life, slowly but surely. Avoiding medical care and/or medication while suffering from a terminal illness is one way of doing so.
While I don't wish to try to explain what's really inside your friend's head now, it is clear that she's been suffering for a long, long time.
But I believe that you, in your ability to offer your kindness and even your loving energy (crying again) you are doing the right thing, especially if you can do so unconditionally.
It's why my beloved service dog, Sophie means everything to me. Like your friend has her figurative farm, I've often thought of just up and taking Sophie to Mexico and live out our days on the beach there.
But because I can make that a reality, just the knowledge of it is a comfort to me. So support your friend's indulging in her thoughts of the farm; it's possibly a big part of all she's still got.
Even if your friend isn't a Borderline, at least some of these feelings she has may well apply to her situation, as we Borderlines don't have a monopoly on the notion of wishing for death over life.
Again, I believe you are doing the right thing; there is no such thing as too much caring and kindness, friendship and understanding in a person's life, yours included.
Staying true to yourself is the best way for you both to live out her life, and you aren't likely to have regrets after she passes.
If it helps, remember that your friend has likely been suffering long before anyone-you included- were aware of it. Being Borderline is not something any of us with it readily share and, in fact may go to great lengths to hide it (think of comedian & actor Robin Williams' story here).
Though it's possible but not probable, your friend, feeling your positivity, may decide to forestall her passing by becoming open to care for herself.
But you will know you've done your best, as a true friend, and that's a wonderful thought for a dying person to have in mind when on their way to the next life, or whatever you believe happens after death.
My recommendation is simply to be sure you have support for yourself, too.
You are, as country singer Tim McGraw put it, "The kind of friend a friend would like to have," like so many others have once been to me, if only I'd known it then. But I'm grateful to have had such caring people-like you-in my life. So, too, is your friend.
Kindly, Sophie'sDaddy.
 
Thanks for the great input and encouragement!

I actually think the prognosis for BPD is much more hopeful with recent studies showing the majority of those with BPD no longer qualifying for a diagnosis of BPD after 7 years (A 27-year follow-up of patients with borderline personality disorder. - PubMed - NCBI.) Another study that followed people for over 16 years showed that 99% had achieved remission (again, not symptom free but no longer qualifying for a BPD diagnosis) for at least two years. (The Lifetime Course of Borderline Personality Disorder.)That's not to say that remission is a cure, or eliminates the learned behaviors, isolation, and other relational consequences that come with BPD. It is an awful and really hard condition to endure, but I want to throw out some hope there for you and anyone with BPD. There is a lot of belief and stigma that BPD persists without much case for hope - but studies are showing it can, and frankly usually does, get better, for at least some period of time.

I think my friend probably had remission and is now dealing with a whole host of health issues including a relapse of BPD and especially depression.

I also have no doubt she has been suffering a long time before cancer came up. I've been with friends with her through seasons of depression before, but never this far...

Ah, damn. She's been so dear to me and she's really been there for me too. My therapist says she actually might be very not used to being the more needy in a the relationship than the other person, and doesn't know how to relate without idealizing or demonizing people like she is now. In general, my life has been improving for awhile, and she's been struggling. I've been returning to work the same time she has been taking more time off and doing less --- before getting cancer.

I just wish she wasn't shutting everyone out.

I really like your idea of supporting her desire to live on a farm... I saw a little roster figurine at farmers market today, and I so wanted to get it for her...

Thanks again for the great thoughts and suggestions.
 
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