Medical Genital mutilation

[ben1982]

Instead of circumcision. We should call it for what it is. MGM. I think that's the best way to make it clear to people. Correct them every time someone talks about circumcision. Just keep using the term MGM in every conversation about the subject.

 

[Abstract]

Just my take on this. This is posted in Trauma Stressors Medical forum and yet is rather being approached as if it is in the Debate section. In my opinion. That of course doesn't mean it can't at times be helpful to discuss surrounding concepts, politics and issues in forums like this. Its maybe still a matter of balance. The original post was written in the style of debate to an extent and I think that pushed things in this direction too. I just hope those posting on here personally suffering with experiences related to this will post more directly about it if they need to. Without comparisons and rather about their situation. Probably in a new thread would be best. Not presuming to send this on a different course as Anarchy is perfectly capable of doing that if he wanted to. His thread. Just expressing what I have been thinking when reading it.

 

[EveHarrington]

Just my opinion as a female, take it or leave it...

My first partner was uncut and I loved it. It saddened me when he asked (ASKED!!!!) me if it was ok that he was uncut. I was dumbfounded. It never crossed my mind to have an issue with the natural state of someone’s body. He explained to me that previous potential partners had an issue with his uncut/intact state. (Why I do not know...)

I thought maybe this was just a him thing. A few years later I met another guy who was uncut (remember I’m in the USA so most men around my age are indeed cut). He was a bit shocked when I told him that I preferred an uncut man....it seems that his previous partners more or less just tolerated it.

I did a bit of research and it seems that cut is preferred amongst many as it is seen as the “norm” (although the trend is shifting away from circumcision).

I find it ironic that many women want a man who has been under the knife (gotta have the right kind of penis!), but if the tables were turned? If men said they only wanted women who had boob jobs? All these men would be called male chauvinist pigs for not loving women as they are.

I guess my point is that no, there is not equality across the sexes as circumcision is seen as no big deal. And, societal perception regarding circumcision needs to change!

Don’t get me wrong. I’m NOT putting down or degrading any man who is cut.

I have my preferences, that being a natural state (my natural state preference is across the board, not just for genetalia). An uncut man is indeed more sensitive and less likely to give you jackrabbit sex that does nothing but hurt! But I digress.

 

[Fadeaway]

@EveHarrington I am the complete opposite. Hygiene issues with uncut men has made it an absolute no no for me. Circumsized only. I have been accused of being shallow because of it but it literally makes me physically I'll to think about being with an uncut guy.

Once again I am not debating the morality of it, as I see both sides as having valid points. It is just my personal issue with being with an uncut guy.

I do however have an issue with comparisons to fgm. Circumsion doesn't take away a man's ability to orgasm. Fgm does take away a woman's ability. Vaginal orgasms are a myth as it is not vaginal tissue stimulation that causes them but deeper clitoris tissue.

 

[EmmaOwl]

This is stupid.
Pretty much what they have in common is that they both sound hellish.

 

[ben1982]

EveHarrington
Thank you for sharing.
My personal experience is a little different because i'm a mutilated man from Europe. And here it's luckily not that common for men to be cut. Meaning i was the one standing out in the dressing room as a kid. And later being asked by highschool girls if they could see my mutilated member. Because they had never seen one in real life before. And some off their friends had told them about it. I was 8 when it was done. Not for "medical" or religious reasons. Just because my mother felt like it. One day she just decided it would be a good idea to cut off a part of me. And the doctors just grabbed me. Bound me on the medical table after a huge and very violent fight. And only half-way they drugged me because i was still trying to break free and moving to much. After i woke up we had more fighting. As i trashed the medical room. Back at home i hid under the kitchen table for 3 days without eating or sleeping. I was totally in shock.

 

[ben1982]

(Circumsion doesn't take away a man's ability to orgasm.)It can have very negative consequences for a man's ability to orgasm. I myself have problems with reaching orgasm. And i can never reach orgasm when i use a condom. I have only very little feeling at all. And it affects my sexlife in a huge negative way. Because i need a long time. And it needs to be pretty hardcore. Not every woman wants that all the time. Oh and issues with shallow women has made it an absolute no no for me. Because it literally makes me physically I'll to think about being with an shallow woman.

 

[mumstheword]

EveHarrington
Thank you for sharing.
My personal experience is a little different because i'm a mutilat...

That sounds incredibly traumatic @ben1982 . That's a terrible thing to have done to you. I'm horrified and saddened and I feel much compassion.
This applies to you, too, @Anarchy and @somerandomguy .

Both my long term partners were cut/mutilated shortly after birth. It's been very common here post world war 2, not sure about now. My now partner does have some sexual sensation and erection issues that I suspect are rooted in the very-routine-mutilation (back.in the 50's and 60's).

My ex was a very misogynistic, narcissistic man, I wonder if this original trauma had something to do with that?

I suspect the trauma of it affects a lot more men than is currently acknowledged, but I can't cite any stats of studies, as I doubt there are any.

I have 5 sons, they were all birthed naturally, without any medical intervention. The thought of having a knife taken to them for no valid reason horrifies me. None have had any trouble with their intact penises.I am becoming somewhat of a man's rights advocate as men's issues, especially western (primarily "white") men, are often minimized, ignored and invalidated, especially in the current hostile "PC" political climate.

 

[Sweetleaf]

Literally no point comparing anatomy that is not held in common. Apples and oranges.

It is horrible to have such a sensitive, private part of your body damaged. No matter what it is.

Genital mutialtion is genital mutilation, I mean, c'mon.

Destruction or damage of a part of your body, is destruction or damage of a part of your body. It's all f*cking horrible. Whether it's a penis or a vagina or an asshole or an elbow or a pinky toe.

That shit just shouldn't be happening.

I'm sterile but, if I were able to have children I wouldn't be having them mutilated.

 

[ben1982]

That sounds incredibly traumatic @ben1982 . That's a terrible thing to have done...

Maybe you can check-out Karen Straughan aka Girl Writes What. She's a great knowledgeable woman on the issue of men's rights. And she has a real easy to understand approach.

 

[Sideways]

@Anarchy - fwiw? I always find your arguments pretty impressive. I don’t always agree, but you have an immense gift for arguing a point and it’s a credit to you.

But, putting aside all the arguments for and against circumcision for a moment...

Before you even had the capacity to speak, someone deformed your body. It makes sense to me that you’d be outraged and traumatised by that. Not every circumcised male feels that way, but that’s true of any traumatic experience.

Even without all of the arguments you can mount as to whether or why this is a barbaric practice - putting all that aside...I think maybe there’s a really fundamental distress that is almost getting lost in your arguments. Because your arguments are all about the broader issue, not you, or your personal experience. The simple fact is, your body was deformed when you were a baby, and that was traumatic for you and has brought you incredible distress.

Maybe I’m way off, idk. But sometimes I think we can use the persuasive arguments as a way to avoid the core issue: this was traumatic for me, and I’m really distressed by that. Ifyou stop and consider your experience, rather than ghe broader issue of circumcision, it changes the discussion.

There is an issue about circumsicion that warrants discussion . But there’s also an issue about you, and your lived experience, and the impact its had on you. And that can’t necessarily be addressed, or healed, by talkig about the bigger issue.

I can talk about the horrors of CSA. But for me to heal, I need to address my issues and my experience with CSA. At some point, talking about the broader issue becomes avoidance for me.

Perhaps (maybe, maybe not), acknowledging just those basic facts is where your healing from this can be found? Maybe (just maybe) your rationalising this so much is your way of avoiding having to deal with the distress attached to this?

 

[blackemerald1]

Hygiene issues with uncut men has made it an absolute no no for me. Circumsized only.

I don't want to be disparaging towards those men @Fadeaway - but honestly if they are not clean there...they are not clean anywhere and for me ...not a potential partner for sex.

Also...having sons myself. Cleaning that area of their body was a matter of fact (parenting function) I needed to teach.

No extra rubber dub scrubbing!! Just like three seconds in the shower & making sure their penis was clean. No big deal...

Result.. clean boys who grew up as clean men...no issue's...with them or partners.

I agree with @Friday's post earlier I was always told by doctors, friends, parents etc., that the only function or purpose of circumcision related to the problems (particularly in the desert regions) soldier's acquired. It had no religious founding for me. (I later learned there is a section of society who do use it for religious purposes) But the health issues became most prevalent during WW1 & WW2 and possibly other wars too. Idk.

It was never known at recruitment where a soldier might be sent. Circumcision was a preventative measure. Keep in mind that these soldiers came back from War or their relatives (usually male and the medical profession also usually male) were incredibly aware of the medical afflictions that resulted from uncircumcised males where inadequate personal hygiene facilities and other factors caused serious health issues.

Circumcision is apparently (and I don't know exactly why) a much more serious procedure in adult males. I think my parents generation decided since they had lived through at least 4 Wars, Conscription and National Service Training...that the likelihood of their male children actually going to War was highly likely. Not an unrealistic idea really. Hence circumcision was done just after birth (because of the decreased risks of waiting until their male children had to be called up for military service).

I know you will poke holes in this all over the place because I cannot reference it. The only reference I have is what I know my parents generation thought of War, their male children being sent off to War, the inevitability of War and this terrible procedure that if it had to be done, was best done when 'risk' was reduced to avoid their sons getting terrible health consequences.

I made a big leap with my boys and said no to circumcision. I was prepared to deal with the prospect of War later and pray it never happened. I had just had a perfect baby's and I would not allow anyone to touch him/them. But you know...they could hate me for it one day if any of them had to go to War.