Guilting Someone Into Not Suiciding! What Are Your Thoughts?

[Meadowsweet]

As I said in an earlier post, it's a value judgement that only the person themselves can make; I certainly won't judge you for feeling the way you do, but I'll keep rubbing in the fact that I wouldn't judge you, either, if you felt differently. When it comes to questions of life and death, to me, every person is an island, and building bridges or putting out ferries is completely optional. It's the foundation all our other rights and freedoms are built on; that our life is truly ours.

i knew someone once who had a suicidal friend on the phone, and her response was to say 'go ahead then'. Same as a place I used to live near. It was a tower block where drugs were rife, and it had regular jumpers. The people round there used to often shout 'jump' to those people.

I don't believe any of those people were any more understanding or empathetic toward feeling suicidal as the person who reminds you you have responsibilities in life.

I don't think 'guilting' from a relative or friend is about you. It is them expressing their feelings of hurt and anger that you would leave them. I understand that when we are very depressed or suicidal, that its impossible to imagine anyone else has feelings other than hatred towards us. But when we're not suicidal, I think its up to us to recognise that other people have feelings too. And that they are allowed to feel without us 'guilting' them for not expressing it as we want them too.

Perhaps entitling it: "Empathy as an alternative to guilt trips with suicidal people." might have been more sensitive?

As I said above, why can't we fond empathy for the person who says its selfish? I think in the heat of the moment, when faced with someone suicidal, I would say whatever I thought might help them see their situation from other perspectives. This is because I've felt suicidal, and I empathise with how singularly the mind works in that moment.

Should people tell you you're selfish for years afterwards? No, I don't see the point of that, but perhaps they are still trying to deal with their upset about it.

I think the title of this thread might have seemed less blaming, if it just asked whether guilt would work to give us new life?

 

[Philippa]

OK, I hear you...however, I think it's also clear that not everyone does respond to guilt in that situation in the same positive way that others do, and so therefore it would be an extremely negative experience for those people to be given a guilt trip for their situation.

I'm not sure that the way I worded the title conveys blame on anyone as such...but I am sorry if it felt that way to you. I don't blame people who do this as such, but I personally do think there are better ways to approach a person who is suicidal than immediately resorting to the use of guilt, so I'm not going to pretend that I agree with it either, even though I recognize that it does work on certain personalities.

I personally found it to be a neutral statement that was then followed by a request for different peoples points of view on the subject. I'll sit with it a bit longer though and see if it starts to seem blamey to me, ok.

I think in answer to your statement in regards to the suicidal person empathizing with the parent or friend more...it seems that the person who is not suicidal is in a better position to show empathy than the person who cannot see past their own pain. I think it's a little unrealistic to expect them to as well, in that state of mind.

I don't think it's impossible however for the non suicidal person to put aside their reactions to be able to just sit with the person though, and I think this would be more helpful for many people if they did. Of course it's not an easy situation to know what to do unless you are trained, and even then, I'm sure the trained person still needs to practise caution and know the personality of the person they are trying to influence.

The purpose of this thread is not to blame people who do use guilt, but to hopefully discuss and brainwash the situation, so that we can all be in a better position to know what to do if we ever are faced with the situation...god forbid.

 

[Meadowsweet]

I think its just me, I sort of saw that although a person might get it wrong by thinking guilt will help, its a person who is bothered enough to do something. Thats a step up from having no one.

I think knowing what to do when someone is literally stood on the edge is something that probably needs some training because everybody responds differently.

But if you have support of family and friends, then its worth talking to them about where your mind goes when you're suicidal, offer them ideas that you think might have helped. But also re-assure them, that in that state, their words might not make a difference and that they are not responsible for the choice you make.

I'm not meaning that this is what the suicidal person should be capable of doing at the time. I mean what you can do when you're talking to people about it at a later date.

I think in all honesty, if I met a stranger standing on that edge, I would say something about there being help available or something. I'd do it very selfishly because I would like someone to care enough to be there for me. But in all honesty, I don't know what the 'right' way of helping someone is.

 

[Srain]

I agree, it IS a step up from having no one there and I understand that. Having been on the other end of the "go ahead and kill yourself, see if I care" conversation that sent me into a complete nosedive of despair after risking reaching out, I know exactly what you are talking about.

I walk that fine line between life and falling into the depths of totally debilitating depression. It can terrify me just how fast and far it takes me down. I'm extremely cautious who I discuss this with in person and how much I say, just as I am cautious how I speak to those that are in anguish. I don't want to lose anyone, my heart is full of holes from those I've lost, I also don't want anyone to think for one minute their pain is not being heard first. I'm guessing that is what I feel is the first and foremost important thing here for me.

This is a good post, a great opportunity to discuss a very personal and potent subject.

 

[Philippa]

I just want to clarify that I am no expert in knowing what is the 'right' way to help an individual who is desperate, and I have never had to do it, thankfully. It is merely my own ponderings based on thinking deeply about the subject for a while now.

I think it's always good to get more input and brainstorming, so that it's not about who is 'right' and who is 'wrong', since we all have gems of truth in what we offer, so I appreciate everything that has been said so far, and it's helped me to open my mind to new ways of thinking about a very tricky subject.

 

[freakofnurture]

I just want to clarify that I am no expert in knowing what is the 'right' way to help an individual who is desperate, and I have never had to do it, thankfully.

I had my friend S. being suicidal in the chat twice over the last year. So, my experience is very limited, but until now I haven't managed to kill her with this approach:

Shut off all the parts of you that think 'If they do it, it's my fault', and then talk to them the way you'd talk about every other decision that you disagree with but will respect and support if it's their true will (like, should I quit my job, should I move somewhere exotic, should I give this questionable love interest a chance etc.): Find out how serious they are about it, then try to get into their mind; find out their physical and emotional reasons, ask about their options, evaluate all those with them.

Suicide is a scary topic for most, but it still boils down to just another decision (that you can postpone literally for the rest of your life, how practical). We all have plenty of reference points to guide us in how to partake in the decision making process of a (particular) friend.

EDIT: There are some more things you can do when you're in the same room with the suicider in spe, like, just being there, as Philippa already mentioned. Talking certainly isn't always what the person needs, but that can be found out via a question.

 

[Anna]

People who are feeling suicidal are ill and need help immediately. They are in such psychological turmoil, the only way out is to die. That is how they feel. It is incredibly selfish to commit suicide, but those feeling this pain need professional help immediately.

It is not selfish for someone to stop someone killing themselves. This person is ill and can get better via treatment. They need help immediately.

 

[Hashi]

It is not selfish for someone to stop someone killing themselves. This person is ill and can get better via treatment.

How do you know they can get better via treatment? It might be possible to heal, it might not. Many people don't, myself included if you take my life so far and I don't know if I ever will. And I've tried a lot of things. Just because there are treatments doesn't mean someone can get better.

If you feel justified in stopping someone from killing themselves, I think you need to be realistic that you might be extending their misery or even making it worse, and then consider whether or not that would be selfish.

 

[heidi]

Not like this matters and I don't even know why I'm talking. I'm literally just talking but I find something very unsettling about calling suicide selfish. Maybe because it's damning a person who already has had such a pained life.

 

[Lucycat]

Maybe because it's damning a person who already has had such a pained life.

but I don't see selfishness as damning at all. I am selfish when I ask my husband to make me a cup of tea. Being selfish is a fact of life, it is part of the balance between looking out for ones-self and giving one's all to or for another.

What I am saying is that being selfish per se is not a bad thing.

I have said before that I do believe suicide to be selfish. But I am in no way damning or condemning those that do it or try to.

 

[Philippa]

I have said before that I do believe suicide to be selfish. But I am in no way damning or condemning those that do it or try to.

I hear what you are saying. I think that the way you think of selfish though is different to the way most people think of selfish. Most people will call someone suicidal selfish and crinkle their nose up or be harsh in their tone of voice about them...they think it is a bad thing.

This is what can be even more dangerous if someone were to call a person selfish who was having these impulses, and this is the point I am making about using that word with the connotation of them being bad for considering it or doing it.

It's the persons choice.

I can say that my life is somewhat ok now...but I went through so many years of prolonged hell and misery, all because my father put a huge guilt trip on me about the state I was in, and saying that "we want you here" is making it about him and my family...who don't treat me humanely even though I stayed.

If people want a suicidal person to not be selfish and save them the pain of their loss, they might want to consider making an extra special effort to treat them like human beings if they do decide to stay. I can't be the only one who has experienced this...can I?

 

[heidi]

And also I have to say I am doing better then I was. But really there have been days when I do a cost benefit analysis and if I had to endure five more years of what I was experiencing then...there is no cost benefit. If you can't find a level of living that is bearable..
I'm sure anybody here would have thought this kind of thing though.
But I would never want anybody to feel bad.