Relationship How To Be Heard When Sufferer Flies Off The Handle....

[Sighs]

If you figure it out can you let me know?

I also feel that I am expected to be some kind of perfect endlessly understanding Angel while he gets to shrug and say 'I have PTSD".

I know he tries but sometimes it feels so emotionally one sided.

 

[scout86]

"You know how I get when you say things like that.")

I know that seems manipulative to you. It can be other things as well. When I read it, to me, it sounds like a way of saying "that hurts, please stop, why are you doing this???" I'm not SURE what it means to him, have you ever thought of actually asking him? (Not in the heat of a battle, obviously.)

at seemingly innocuous things I say

Again, those things seem innocuous to YOU. That's totally legitimate, but it certainly doesn't mean it has to seem that way to anyone else. It might be interesting (and useful) to know how he hears it.Because I'm betting it doesn't seem innocuous to him. He may not even realize how it affects him, but I'd bet it means something much different to him.

I couldn't get him to a point where he understands that I understand that, but he needs to respect my boundaries too.

I don't think you DO understand. Not really. Yes, you do have boundaries and you have the right to have them respected. From the standpoint of a person who has PTSD (me, for example) once someone starts pushing buttons and refuses to stop, whether they are doing it deliberately or by accidents, "boundaries" cease to exist. All that matters is survival. And I mean that in the most literal way. The situation is going to seem totally different to him than it does to you. This is not a question of one of you seeing it 'right' and the other 'wrong'. This is literally that you perceive two different versions of reality and they are both equally 'real'.

My answer to your original question in this post is that you can't. Things have to deescalate before someone who's that activated is going to hear anything. I'm tempted to say the best thing to do is back off, go do something else, and pick things up later, trying to take a different approach. But then I think of a scenario where the 'supporter' comes in, pushes a bunch of buttons, sets off a high level of chaos, only to walk away, come back later and start in again. In a situation like that, I hope I'd be smart enough to leave, physically, but it looks like a reason for suicide too.

That probably sounds kind of mean. Your intent probably is good. Here's the thing, this really IS an altered way of experiencing 'reality' and it's not something you can turn on and off. It's always there, you can learn to recognize stuff, you can learn some coping mechanisms, but it's not like you can recognize "Oh, I'm being unreasonable, I need to stop that" and just DO IT. It does NOT work that way. He's maybe not at a point where he's ready for the complexities of being in a relationship. THIS relationship sounds like a nightmare, to me, for both of you. Maybe the best thing, for both of you, would be if you went your separate ways, he worked on his own issues and got more stable, and THEN you can see if the relationship is worth working on.

 

[shimmerz]

which I have every right to make when I genuinely feel like my needs are being disrespected. I don't think it's "huge,"

I am not affected by PTSD every moment of every day. And when I am not affected to the degree that I am wandering into walls or passing out on floors somewhere, I do whatever I can (which is limited) to support my SO, my friends, my family. These are, however, during limited times.

So I guess I would ask you to ask yourself if this feeling you have of his no caring about your needs is an every moment of every day issue or if you are seeing, in his good times (or better times) an effort to help to support you. If not, this probably isn't the type of relationship for you.

It is also guaranteed that an emotionally charged statement is going to get a reaction of some sort out of me. Everyone I know, knows that. So things are brought up in as gentle a way as possible (and I am not proud of that). It is a necessity if someone is going to get their best from me.

 

[Hojay]

Thank you all for your input. I hear what you are saying and I do realize he's in an altered state. We've taken some time off now to calm down, just a few days to not go into the same loop over and over. He's completely irrational at the moment and anything I say will set him off. It hurts me to know that he may think I'm not doing the very best I can with him, but that there are limits too. Very often it's not me going around pushing buttons, it's him jumping down my throat for something he interprets as an attack, and going on and on and on about it. It's all about him and his pain is all that exists. Right now I don't have a right to have feelings. Fair enough, but that's not a relationship, that's wanting a codependent partner. I don't want to cause him harm, so distance and time for him to gather himself is the only thing I can think of.

@scout86, I'm thankful for your thorough reply. I'd urge you to perhaps be a bit more careful in insinuating that ANYTHING a supporter does could cause someone to commit suicide. People don't cause others to commit suicide, diseases do. To infer us supporters could be in any way responsible, could ruin lives indefinitely.

 

[Fadeaway]

@Hojay from a sufferer perspective.you have to give someone with PTSD space when they ask for it. While waiting until he is calm is the only right time to discuss these things, some days he simply is not going to be able too. Other days he might be able to handle it in short spurts but anything longer than a 10 minute conversation might cause him to feel too overwhelmed. When he is stressed out he is going to be physically and mentally unable to hear or understand you.

As far as what @scout86 said, she did not insinuate that anything a supporter does can cause suicide. She described a specific scenario where a sufferer might feel suicide is an option.

 

[Hojay]

@Fadeaway, yes, I really do understand that now. I want to give him space. It's hard when it happens within an air of anger, blame, and accusations, but it's what needs to happen. Unfortunately, in our case, it means no contact at all during those times (even though he may want contact,) or else it just blows up. Very often, he doesn't let himself calm down either, by pushing and not letting go of his tirades. I need to see it for what it is and step back big time.

About what @scout86 said, yes, I gather that she described a specific scenario, however, the scenario is one I am in and it's hard to hear that it may drive him to harm himself. It's a fear that is constantly on my mind and it's hard work to keep that possibility in mind while understanding it wouldn't be my fault if he did choose to do that.

 

[NaeNae75]

The only thing I can say here is I think you were asking supporters if they've shared similar experiences, and trying to find a way to be heard without causing any additional stress, but a lot of people especially sufferers have responded in his defense. I actually read the entire story on a different thread of yours which I think shows a clearer picture of the actual situation.

What I can say as bith a sufferer and supporter is that I see both points, but considering the whole story...I think you must stand your ground here.

This is a genuine matter involving your health and safety. You can't control how he reacts to things, but your need to have this situation handled is important. Your immediate safety could genuinely be compromised.

To me, it shows the relationship doesn't reflect a healthy one in the least. The fact he isn't willing to follow up on a promise that directly involves actual health and safety would be a deal breaker for me.

If someone isn't capable of something so simple, they certainly won't be capable of anything more complex in the context of a relationship right now . If he were compromising your safety in a more "violent" way would you tolerate it? Then to me there isn't really a distinction. In this specific situation, he is gambling with your health. It is very much akin to Russian Roulette.

If protecting your own safety is a problem for him....you're going to have to let it ne his problem at some point. If he's this out of control, you may be in over your head. Protect yourself, because he clearly cannot. He's barely capabe of protecting himself. It is not your job to fix him, but it is your job to keep yourself safe. We aren't taking about where to go to dinner....we're talking about your safety.

 

[Hojay]

Thank you for stepping in @NaeNae75 - Yes, it goes both ways. I just kind of refuse to believe that the responsibility is all on me and that I'm supposed to expect zero from my sufferer, while he can just say "I need to calm down," and the conversation is finished. I don't think that's how it should work and/or that I'm asking too much. I can understand why sufferers here defend him, but I'm also getting quite confused what, if anything, they would consider a codependent relationship if standing up for yourself as a supporter isn't ok?

 

[NaeNae75]

Thank you for stepping in @NaeNae75 - Yes, it goes both ways. I just kind of refuse to...

Have you set into place the "boundary" we were talking about before? If so, are you living by it?

In other words, did you give in or are you sticking to it... if you are, there is no real conversation until he follows through. In other words, you shouldn't bring it up in conversation anymore unless he's trying to get you to let go of your boundary. Then you simply tell him no, its not negotiable.

He then gets to decide if he wants to change his behavior or not. The consequences have to be genuine or it won't work.

 

[shimmerz]

"I need to calm down,"

I think if you look at some of the posting here, you may notice that sufferers don't give each other a free ride here. We encourage each other to take responsibility. The problem, however, as I see it here, and why you are getting pushback is that most of us know that, when a sufferer is activated is the worst time to push an issue. When overwhelmed, many of us simply cannot think through issues.

My SO offers a solution to things that I can't think through. Like perhaps, 'look, I can see that this letter is too much for you. How about you give me the number of the person who has it and we will have him mail it.'

Now, given that (and I did not read your other posting about the issue until this morning, which did help me to see more clearly what was going on here), if he balks and refuses your help in getting to the core of this problem - because you are allowed and encouraged to have your needs fulfilled as it is a basic human right - that is when I would say that you are in a relationship that is not good for you.

I have trained myself to go back to an issue that is important to my SO and talk about it when I can. Because I do love him and I care about how HE is in the relationship. And honour him for having to work around issues of mine. So we have a bit of a deal here. He doesn't push me to get to something and I make certain that I address his issues as soon as I can.

I still think he loses in the deal and that weighs heavily upon me. But I don't take advantage.

I think one of the things to ask yourself here to get more perspective is, is this the ONLY thing that you have seen this reaction from or is this a normal thing within your relationship?

 

[Hojay]

@NaeNae75 i did follow the lead on that thread - I told him that I will get that letter myself (kindly) and he said that I don't need to, he'll take care of it, promise. So given that we are not talking for a few days, I can't be sure what will happen when we do talk again. Thing is, he's so down and struggling, the "excuse" to not go get it because he can't even calm himself down enough to watch tv, could kind of work. And it's worked before on me. So I'll have to see how this round goes! Thank you so much for your support and for even remembering my other thread. I don't know what I'd do without this place.

@shimmerz yes, it's true, I can see sufferers holding each other responsible too. I also realize now that when he's so riled up a conversation is not possible - the issue being that it's never possible because he gets riled up at the next go too. He says this happens because I never let him calm down enough. it's not like I try to bring it up an hour later, but there is a time limit in which I think it's reasonable to give someone relief after a terrible row. Then again, maybe I'm just being impatient and I shouldn't expect him to clear up my feelings and address them. I genuinely don't know anymore. At this point I've just told him to take a rest for a few days and that his issues aren't about us per se.

It is and it isn't the only thing I get this reaction with from him - at this point, pretty much all topics that seem emotionally loaded or pertain to things I think aren't quite ok with me will cause this cycle.

 

[scout86]

Have you read the piece that's around here somewhere on the "Stress Cup"? If you haven't read it yet, it might be helpful.

I don't think that's how it should work and/or that I'm asking too much.

That's probably not how a normal relationship 'should' work, but the fact (and I think it's really a potential fact) is that it MIGHT be too much to expect to get from him, right now, where he's at in his mental health journey. Which means maybe this isn't the time for this relationship. He may actually not be able to, or willing to, meet your standards at this point. That doesn't mean your standards are wrong. It just means that they might not be something he can actually do. Or maybe he doesn't want to. Does it matter which it is?