Relationship Husband Pulled Gun, Threatened Suicide During Argument.

[Justmehere]

If some of the advice you are getting seems harsh or judgemental, pleaae know that it comes from some really solid people who really care about you and your husband.

Folks here are honest, and if something said doesn't fit, just disregard what doesn't help, keep being gently clear, and keep an open mind to what may be hard to hear and may or may not fit.

I am quite impressed at some of the clarity and strength of character you have in the middle of a really heartbreaking and tough situation. You are making some good choices and taking good steps.

I am a little worried that he may react very badly when you set the boundary with him - that is very common when someone gives the good kind of boundary you plan to set with him. It's good you are taking all the harmful things out of the house. Can you take a friend with you? Maybe even one of his friends? There is a reason why interventions are done with professional support and a group of people. I know you are not quite talking about a full intervention, but from someone who has been in a place of setting a clear but gentle boundary with someone I love to get help or I'm leaving, and who has been alongside others who have taken that good and brave step, I highly advise bringing a friend along - it will help all of you (especially him) see through natural emotional reactions (Including what may be an unnoticed fear of abandonment that people with ptsd often have) and stay focused on him getting help. It will also help keep you safe - what you have to say will be hard for him, and he will still have his own own two hands. It is a hard step to do - but you were already thinking of reaching out to his friends - and it will help him see that people care, and are there to support him, There is help and hope. For these and other reasons please consider bringing a friend when you set this good boundary with him.

:hug: we are here for support whatever you do. This is so tough. Hang in there.

 

[joeylittle]

You're doing well, @Needadvicequickly. You can do this.

When you get home, if your phone isn't charged, plug it in.

If you know for sure you'll have an hour at least at home on your own, clear the house room by room. You can start where the guns are if you want. You can leave the ammunition behind OR hide it in an out-of-the-way place in the house.

Carry around a laundry basket or the box of trash bags. If you're in doubt, put it in the basket/bag.

When the bag is too full, finish the room you are in and then take it to your trunk, I'm guessing. If you have a shed or basement with a padlock or other good locking method, you can use that too.

If the bags are in a shed/basement, just throw the key as far as you can.

If they are in your car and you only have one ignition key, you can either keep it on you OR lock all car doors except the drivers side and put the key in the ignition is best, in the sun visor or under the mat is second best. If you have 2 ignition keys, put one in the ignition, lock the car, and put the other one somewhere you think is safe. The tank of the toilet is surprisingly good for things like this.

And then get your cell, put it in your pocket, and call the hospital, if you haven't already -

If you think you will only have 15 minutes, do the guns and chemicals and pills and knives.
Thinking of you

 

[Kefira]

I would also advise at least bringing a friend if you aren't willing to work with professional law enforcement or medical professionals to handle the situation at this juncture.

It would definitely be best to see what the hospital advises and whether they can send you help in the form of people who are equipped to deal with this situation. He's not stable right now and it's really hard to tell how he may react when 'backed into a corner' which is likely how he'll see it.

 

[Justmehere]

And razor blades and basically anything with a sharp edge. Even a vase that he could quickly break and use to harm himself (or you). He's trained to be resourceful in situations where there is a perceived or real threat.

PTSD comes with an extra robust fight or flight instinct. It doesn't make people violent, but when they feel there is no escape from something they fear, they can take drastic measures to fight it off - and he's already expressed a willingness to kill people who could come to help, likely out of a fear to get help. He also likely fears you leaving. So there is extra reason for caution and removing all easy options for him to act out in a way to harm himself or others when faced with treatment or losing you.

Many areas in the US have what is called a "mobile crisis team" where it is mental health professionals who show up and really know how to handle this more gently and respectfully than the average law enforcement officer. That may be a less threatening option than police. You can also even ask for plain clothes police to come - but I would also be honest about his fear of them coming.

You are very smart to require he get help immediately. Very wise. Make it as easy for him to make that choice to get help. Eliminate the scary drive to the hospital or the call to the counselor to get checked into treatment. (I have has to do that drive and make that call for myself and it's hell to do even when I was ready to do it.)

My own roommate who committed suicide was told he had a certain amount of time to check himself into treatment or that his girlfriend would leave him. As soon as she wasn't watching him, he used that time to kill himself. He was a very good person, a wonderful school teacher. His death was violent and awful. Please don't underestimate how scary it is to get help and/or face losing someone - which could be especially big if your families are used to thinks looking like they are all ok.

My roommate's girlfriend did the right thing to require him to get help and she is not to blame for what he did. Not one bit. But in hindsight, there should have been the option to get in the van with the mobile crisis team professionals and to go to the hospital right then and there.

I say this as a supporter and as someone who has had ptsd and has had to get immediate help for suicidality. It's best to make it very simple to go without lots of time to back out.

And take some slow deep breaths as you go through this. :hug:

 

[Kefira]

I second JustMeHere that the crisis unit might be a better call than the police. One of my friends is a therapist who goes with a crisis team fairly often. They know what they're doing, and typically have people who are equipped to diffuse a possible situation in a number of ways, meaning they'll talk to him and know what to say to try to get him to accept help. But if he does end up finding a way to threaten himself, them, or you despite your efforts to cleanse the house they will have people on hand able to handle the threat with minimal harm coming to him.

And an ultimatum that he gets help or you leave is likely to be a huge stressor. I've personally seen people act out with some pretty unorthodox improvised weapons.

 

[scout86]

We are "good" people,

Bear in mind, this stuff happens to "good people". My dead friend was one of the best people I've ever known, with a strong Christian faith. He was career military, a buttoned down by the book kind of guy. He was the person others looked to when a problem needed to be solved. He wasn't some irresponsible flake. And things still happened. This isn't a character flaw and it isn't something you do on purpose. It isn't even something you necessarily understand when it's happening, which makes it even more scary. PTSD it the brain's reaction to an abnormal situation. If people want to judge you, or him, because of this, that's on THEM. They don't get it and that's too bad. Maybe they will learn something as a result.

Remember, you can go to a pretty crazy place and still manage to come back. This isn't necessarily the end of your marriage or anything else. It might be the beginning of a complicated journey, but that journey can have a good outcome. (Hoping and praying for exactly that!)

 

[anthony]

What does he do with his time, to decompress and destress?

I ask... because many when getting to the point of suicide, feel as though there is nothing to live for, no purpose in their life. A person predisposed to suicide, you really need to quickly find a purpose for them, something that makes them want to get out of bed each day, and look forward to life daily, even though depression wants to kick their arse.

Is alcohol exacerbating the issue as well, when he gets this way?

 

[Needadvicequickly]

Update for those following this.

I spoke with a woman yesterday by phone who works for the national suicide hotline, specifically for veterans/spouses of veterans. We talked about an hour about his issues, symptoms and overall physical and mental health. She gave me some good local resources to reach out to in regards to the VA and what they offer to veterans and their families.

After going home, I cleared the house of weapons and made sure my dogs were safe. It sounds silly, but they are like my children and my husband has kicked one of them in a fit of rage. So, they were put up safely, guns removed and I had my letter to talk to him. Basically it was/is a plea--- seek help immediately for anger management and for us to martial counselling, I also suggested personal counselling for me ---or else we need to separate. I hate ultimatums, however; This is THAT serious to me. Either he would in and committed to help completely and the saving of our marriage or he would be out.

Well, long story and lots of talking later and he's out. He refuses counselling. Won't go to individual anger management or marital counselling. He thinks I'M the problem and won't be capable of adhering to counsellors suggestions.

It's all been flipped on me now, and I'm not saying I have no part in some of our issues. It definitely takes two. However, I'm not going to allow someone to flip furniture, rip pictures off of walls, produce firearms in an argument, call me every name in the book, belittle me and my hobbies and then get told I'm controlling because I ask him to stop that behaviour.

To the suicide point, he claims he isn't suicidal anymore and that I would be ruining his life if I brought it up and he would deny everything to professionals or law enforcement. Even what happened the other night citing it was "my word against his"

 

[nursenurse]

Whatever you choose to do about his threats, I hope you realize it isn't your fault. Yes it takes two to tango in a relationship, but none of what you did caused him to behave in the manner which he did. Good for you for sticking up for yourself. The hard part is to make it continue. Stick to your "guns" so to speak. Good luck. Make sure you start seeking legal counsel. You need to be prepared for whatever fall out may occur.

 

[Needadvicequickly]

Sorry, typing from my phone. In summary, he finally agreed to go to ONE counselling session. Just one. And he says the minute I don't follow the suggestions he's out. I think

We will live separately for a while as we seek it, but I'm hoping this step, albeit small, will work.

 

[Kefira]

One counseling session will likely do nothing but to further irritate him, and it certainly isn't agreeing to seek help. If he continues to refuse help after that you're going to have to take a long hard look at what to do and hopefully be strong enough to stick to your ultimatum from last night. It sounds like you're in a good place mentally with most of this though. You're doing the right thing, for whatever consolation that might be.

My personal thought is that even if he will only go to one session, you should really consider seeking ongoing counseling for yourself. If he is willing to work on himself and you two try to salvage the relationship you may need it to get back to a point where you can try to work with him. If you two go your separate ways you will likely need the support through the process.

I'm glad you're looking at separation for a while, just for your safety.
Sending you all my best wishes.

 

[Justmehere]

Excellent job calling the crisis line and taking the steps that you did. I'm sorry he didn't choose to go into treatment for his pain and his behaviors.

He has agreed to a marriage counseling session?

Counseling doesn't work by the therapist dictating what people are to do and not do. Healthy relationships - counseling or marriage - do not work by one party instructing the other and the other party giving full compliance. Counseling isn't like the military.

Marriage counseling won't be enough. He needs comprehensive treatment for himself. If you go to the counseling session, it is my guess he will plan to deny every behavior you tell the counselor about.

He's looking for a way to just barely keep you, save face, say he tried marriage counseling and its your fault because you didn't do xyz, and so he doesn't have to face the emotional pain that it was his behavior that caused you to set this boundary.

Maybe it could be the start of his eventual commitment to treatment for his issues, his behavior. It doesn't surprise me that in the absence of his commitment to his own recovery, he is trying to blame you.

No one is perfect and of course it takes two people working on their own stuff in order for a relationship to work... BUT there is nothing you could have possibly done that makes it your fault or even partially your responsibility for his violent behaviors. Nothing. He will only change when he first accepts responsibility for his actions. Period.

People who are suicidial deny it all the time to professionals. They tend not to believe the denials.

The line about it being his word against yours - well, it's just another sign of him falling into typical patterns of what abusive perps do.

All he had agreed to do is to try and have you change. Not himself. That's another thing abusers tend to do. They blame and try to fix others when confronted with consequences for their behaviors.

I think it is a very good idea to live separately, and please keep the domestic violence folks in mind should he escalate yet again. I'm so sorry he kicked your dog. That's horrible.

None of this is your fault. None of it.