I feel like my issues are too complex to recover from

[MyWillow]

If my t even talks about breathing exercises I start to get panic-y. At the moment I’m trying to practice just sitting on a yoga mat and noticing how my body touches the ground. If that feels ok then I will notice the breath. The hardest thing is noticing without judgement. My mind will wander off and sometimes I’ll tear up. So I’m practicing noticing that without judgment. Bloody hell but it’s hard. But it’s a start. Many days I can’t bear to even sit and notice. So I try and notice that without judgement. I am very early on in my journey so this is all a bit random.

 

[Deleted member 39476]

There are good physiological reasons why deep breathing works

I think for me the psychological barrier is so big that I will never be able to reap any of the benefits under this kind of chronic stress. I have a severe aversion to action in general right now, so unless I'm doing random things like playing video games or watching television, its not uncommon I'll spend entire days not doing something. For example, even extremely stress-free tasks like brushing my teeth, going to bed, or folding laundry, I generally avoid doing to an extreme degree. The mindset is something like "I should stop what I'm doing and try to calm down, do exercises or something" and I have such an aversion to stopping what I'm doing I will constantly be thinking I should stop what I'm doing for 12-14 straight hours until the day is over and I just go to sleep instead. As if I am running from something by absorbing myself in something and if I stop doing it then I will get caught, so I never stop. Even stopping to go to sleep is a very stressful experience. Occasionally I try to force myself to stop what I'm doing to do a task I have been delaying, and all that happens is I become so overwhelmed by stress that I feel like fainting, my muscles start seizing up, and I collapse.

 

[Neverthesame]

Tried 3 different SSRIs for that purpose, all them didn't do much besides making me feel a little bit worse.

Ok. There are far more than 3 meds plus different classes of drugs.

Have you tried an SNRI such as Effexor?
Or a tricyclic antidepressant like Amitriptyline?
There are several different meds in both of those classes.
If you have only tried 3, you have only scratched the surface.

 

[AnD]

I hear your pain. You have been doing hard work in therapy and right now you feel as if it broke you?

I have not been exactly where you are, but somewhere in that vicinity.

None of this is your fault, you are not doomed. I can see you doing your very best and this is so good.

What I see is you being constantly attacked by your inner critic. That is why you are only doing things that numb you. Every time you try to do something else, the critic lashes out at you and it is hard to stand up to evilness every minute.

We all want emotional safety. I want it too. When I brush my teeth I am so afraid that I often avoid it. When I try to cook or do anything, I get anxious. If I listen I can hear the inner critic lashing out at me. Which throws me into a freeze mode. I can't do anything. I don't want to be bullied.

And you know, what I have found? Every time I feel something negative about myself I know it is the inner critic. Do you know who I found out is the inner critic? My inner child. She is so afraid that daddy will yell at her, even when he is not around. She is so afraid someone else will harm her for her doing wrong.

So she creates this idea of perfection. Something I can never live up to. We are not safe being perfect. We are safe grieving the fear from our childhoods.

And how do I release myself from freeze mode and fear? I let the child tell me what she is afraid of? It breaks my heart hearing what has been done to her. I cry for her pain. And I tell her that she is safe. I cry, I cry until I feel safe.

I am sending you my warmest hugs, if you accept them. I think you are brave and strong for living with this harsh voice in your ear for so long. And I tell you, there is a way out.

Sitting with your emotions and grieve. I know it is hard, I know it is almost impossible. But we are all here for you.

 

[EveHarrington]

Tried 3 different SSRIs for that purpose, all them didn't do much besides making me feel a little bit w...

That’s not much of anything.

There are non SSRI antidepressants

There are antipsychotics

There are mood stabilizers

Keep trying.

 

[Sideways]

I generally avoid doing to an extreme degree

This seems to be a pretty core part of the issue. Which would make sense since avoidance is a big part of what ptsd is all about. It sounds a lot like when you start to think that doing something is going to be good for you or therapeutic in some way, the stress is huge. There’s an internal voice or trigger or something telling you that therapeutic stuff needs to be avoided, or it’s just plain dangerous, and that makes sense because pretty much every part of the recovery process is uncomfortable or just plain painful. Gotta do it anyway.

The thing with stress and breathing exercises? You’re already breathing. Breathing exercises are just a way of practicing to breathe more effectively. If you can control your breathing (and that takes a lot of practice), you can control a whole lot of your symptoms. It’s physiology. Whatever it is going on in your mind telling you not to practice your breathing occasionally, that “This won’t work”? That’s the problem. Because if you want to practice your breathing? You can literally just pause your computer game (or whatever you’re doing that feels safe) and do some big in and out breaths right where you are, and that’s it. Practice is over for the day, good job! It becomes stressful when your brain gets a chance to interfere with all its talk about danger and stress and, and, and... You don’t need to make any kind pf big deal about it though, and you can choose to do it anyway, regardless of what strung-out brain is telling you.

The problem is not that these things (like breathing, or brushing your teeth) for some reason don’t/can’t work for you. They haven’t worked yet, but that’s a persistence issue, not a “my body is physiologically unable to respond to controlled breathing etc”. It takes time, and resistance and avoidance to therapy/recovery are a normal part of the process that you can definitely work through with your T. Getting stable isn’t a one time thing - it’s something we have to do over and over. They’re skills, so you get better at them with persistence.

I’m sorry if your T gave you the impression that after 2 years everything would be better. It gets worse before it gets better. But it does, with time, get better. Don’t give up.

 

[Deleted member 39476]

And how do I release myself from freeze mode and fear? I let the child tell me what she is afraid of? It breaks my heart hearing what has been done to her. I cry for her pain. And I tell her that she is safe. I cry, I cry until I feel safe.

I try to do this as often as I can, and I truly understand the value of it, but its complicated. On a conscious level I am fully aware that my inner critic is actually a hurt inner child that really needs my help. However, that child is afraid of me, and disguises itself as a monster to keep me on my toes, if I try to take away that disguise and show that child love I end up with an unbelievable amount of pain, after which the child disguises more, attacks more, trusts less, loves less. I have no idea how to deal with this and it is pretty much the central problem I have been working on for months that's preventing any recovery.

That’s not much of anything.

There are non SSRI antidepressants

It's not but on principal I believe the only drugs that will offer any real relief can only offer it temporarily and have severe downsides like destructive addictions, and the ones that don't have those downsides will likely never offer any real relief. Whether that is the truth or not I don't want to take anymore drugs and don't trust psychiatry as a field at all.

The problem is not that these things (like breathing, or brushing your teeth) for some reason don’t/can’t work for you. They haven’t worked yet, but that’s a persistence issue, not a “my body is physiologically unable to respond to controlled breathing etc”.

Here's the thing: I've used them successfully before, I know how they are supposed to work, I understand their benefits, but with this degree of executive dysfunction and this level of constant stress, they offer me no benefit. I know this because on the rare occasion I drop to a 7 or an 8/10 stress instead of the usual 9-10, the first and most immediately obvious change is I feel like breathing slower. When I'm 7/10 stressed and I do the progressive relaxation, deep breathing exercises I can get my stress down to a 5 pretty easily and it's nice. In my current situation I am terrified of doing anything that isn't numbing, therapeutic or not, so no matter how much I say I want to do it I normally cannot force myself to even try, but the off times I do try it I get the opposite of useful effects. I have heard people say things like "you are supposed to feel more stressed out when you start the process, but it helps if you keep going for 10 minutes." I don't believe this at all.

 

[shimmerz]

I rarely can even attempt to use any of them because my executive control is so bad under severe stress

Sorry, I haven't read the responses. This just struck me. The idea is to practice these things when well. Not when you are off half cocked. Wake up in the morning and go through self care routine, practice breathing, visualize your safe place. Always these things need to be done while you are good (or good-er).

It's obvious your executive functioning can work well, as someone pointed out in a post on the first page.... because you articulate very well. Anyway, don't practice when you are 'in it'. Practice when you aren't.

ETA: I think it is Van der Kolk that talks about breathing being a re-establishment of time when dissociating. How about not worrying so much about the breathing and more about counting (to... say.... 5?) and just keep focusing on that.

I have been where you are. It is possible to improve from that. I also recall going through a phase similar to yours where I was so frustrated with all of the time I was putting in with seemingly little to no gain. I had an incredibly patient T that helped me at the time who just kept repeating the same thing over and over again. It eventually stuck.

 

[Neverthesame]

You won't know until you try.
Sorry if this is upsetting for you but you really seem hell bent on finding excuses for being miserable.
I don't understand what you want from us.

Every response you've had here has been the no bullshit straight to the point answer to your question about what you can do to overcome these obstacles.

There's no easy answer. If there was, we'd all know it and have done it and there wouldn't be forum to ask questions on, because we'd all be better now.

This shit is hard. That's all there is to it.
Practice, practice, practice.

That's what makes breathing exercises and grounding exercises work. Practice.

They don't work the first time. They don't work the hundredth time. Keep practicing, then after the thousandth time or maybe the ten thousandth time, you start noticing a difference.

Practice, practice, practice.

It's not but on principal I believe the only drugs that will offer any real relief can only offer it temporarily and have severe downsides like destructive addictions, and the ones that don't have those downsides will likely never offer any real relief

So you are only wanting benzodiazepines?
Yup. Your right, those are short term band-aid drugs that will turn you from a person suffering PTSD, to a junkie suffering from PTSD.

Antidepressants have side effects. Yup. They sure do.
They can make you right miserable. No one said they don't. But they can take the edge off enough for you to get a grip long enough to make some progress in your head.

What I don't understand is, what is this "principle" you are standing on?
That the first few meds you tried didn't work to your satisfaction, so therefore you write off everything else before you even try it?
It goes against your principles to do whatever it takes to make your life bearable?

I think you need to re-evaluate your priorities a little bit.

Whether that is the truth or not I don't want to take anymore drugs and don't trust psychiatry as a field at all.

I could sympathise with the I can't, I can't. Because at least I know that we're still trying to do the best you could, while dealing with cognitive distortions. But the I won't, I won't. Nope sorry.

If you want to argue this "I'm a hopeless case" nonsense, put it in your title that you are only wanting sympathy.
You're getting good advice here. If you don't want it, fine.
Just do us the courtesy of telling us what you want. We aren't mind readers.

I really do hope you are able to find the help you need. But I can tell you, it's not to be found in saying "I can't" and definitely not in "I won't".
But I guarantee you it is there to be found. I really hope you see it one day.

 

[Friday]

Here's the thing: I've used them successfully before, I know how they are supposed to work, I understand their benefits, but with this degree of executive dysfunction and this level of constant stress, they offer me no benefit. I know this because on the rare occasion I drop to a 7 or an 8/10 stress instead of the usual 9-10, the first and most immediately obvious change is I feel like breathing slower. When I'm 7/10 stressed and I do the progressive relaxation, deep breathing exercises I can get my stress down to a 5 pretty easily and it's nice. In my current situation I am terrified of doing anything that isn't numbing, therapeutic or not, so no matter how much I say I want to do it I normally cannot force myself to even try, but the off times I do try it I get the opposite of useful effects. I have heard people say things like "you are supposed to feel more stressed out when you start the process, but it helps if you keep going for 10 minutes." I don't believe this at all.

It took me over a year to get my symptoms to back from from 10-15 hours a day, plus nightmares & crap sleep... to 5-10 hours a day, plus the sleeping jag.

Did that leave me functional?

Nope. That’s still 5-10 hours a day locked in symptoms. 1/3-1/2 of every damn day.

But is WAS my symptoms cut in half. Which is huge improvement.

And then life happened ...and I lost about another year, year and a half to off the chart symptoms... and am now about at half of that. So it’s still every day, but? Most days each week it’s half a day, or less, a few days a week it’s still all day. And we’ve got the occasional bad run (10Nov-Nowish, for example, which I’m well aware I tend to go sideways with)... that I don’t really count as part of the overall picture... because regardless of what my symptoms are at (mild, moderate, FFS enough already) November sucks. So, still, right about now we’re looking at 1/3 - 1/2 of most days are f*cked. 2/3s to 1/2 I’m doing pretty damn well. Most days.

Does that leave me functional? Not really. It’s close. But I’m not quite there, yet.

This shit? Is hard. For people whom meds work? Awesome. Happy for them. Massive shortcut, to be able to remain functional even when hit really hard by symptoms. I’m not one of those people, so I’ve got to do it the hard way. That’s a lot of us.

It’s doable. It just takes a long ass time.

Which means... yes. For 10 minutes. And then 10 minutes again. Over and over again, all damn day. And the next. And the next. Getting ANY free space? Equals a victory. And then more free space. And more. But it takes time to do shit the slow way. For, me, that means YEARS. Of grinding. Of working towards stable.

Shrug. I did it before. I can do it again. Ain’t a lot of fun, but it’s doable.

 

[Deleted member 39476]

Sorry, I haven't read the responses. This just struck me. The idea is to practice these things when well. Not when you are off half cocked. Wake up in the morning and go through self care routine, practice breathing, visualize your safe place. Always these things need to be done while you are good (or good-er).

This is why I'm not really focusing on those exercises in general right now, I can count the amount of times I've been below an 8 stress in the last year on one hand. The value of having even a once a month come-down is immense, it re-establishes hope, it gives you a point of reference, it allows you to sort some stuff out that you can't normally do, it allows you to practice some tolerance skills. I don't get those anymore, and its honestly terrifying going 9 straight months without ever feeling even remotely calm at any point, that's why I'm so desperate looking for a way to calm down reliably, even a bit.

Every response you've had here has been the no bullshit straight to the point answer to your question about what you can do to overcome these obstacles.

Could *in theory* be done. I made this post because everything I've been trying, with professionals, for years now, has been failing miserably, to the point where I'm not even sure if there is a way out at this point. People are recommending things that are useful a lot of the time to a lot of people, but don't work for me. The only thing that has been recommended that I haven't tried are certain kinds of medications. I think psychiatry is bogus, I have never seen anyone in a similar condition who has improved significantly with the use of those kinds of drugs, I won't take them. If there is no solution that doesn't involve heavy meds, I would quite literally rather die.

 

[Deleted member 39476]

It took me over a year to get my symptoms to back from from 10-15 hours a day, plus nightmares & crap sl...

Did you find that feeling better tended to come before the exercises or after? Every time I have got benefit out of them I already felt a bit better beforehand, a good therapy session or a success IRL, they have never helped me dig myself out of severe stress though.