I'm Starting To See Clearly Now.

[Loloma]

For the first time I am starting to understand a lot of my behavioral patterns. Issues that I was totally unaware of are being explained to me by my T. So much logic than I didn't see, that was right in front of me all the time, explained to me like I'm a six year old.

I could never understand why I was treated so badly in my relationships. All my time was spent giving, more and more until I was totally drained. It was never about me it was always them, it seemed that my whole purpose was to please. No matter how I tried it was never enough. Finally they left, met someone else and moved on happily. They became different in their new relationships, nicer people. Well to their new partners anyway. I just couldn't understand it, which left me feeling frustrated and confused. What was wrong with me? My new T helped me look at it from a different perspective. She gave me a simple explanation to help me understand.

If I was in a class full of students that all took swimming lessons, and for some reason I missed out. At a later date we went back to the pool and all jumped in. The other students swam and had no problems. I was thrashing around in the water, trying desperately to stay afloat because I hadn't learnt how to swim.

What I learnt from this was it wasn't my my fault that I failed. How could it be my fault if I hadn't been taught what I needed to know. I never learnt about boundaries, how much was enough, and when to draw the line. Because of this reason it all became one sided. I never had the luxury of being a child. From an early age I was burdened with responsibility, towards my parents and brothers and sisters. With my parents it was cooking, cleaning and being a third parent. I had to help raise my brothers and sisters from babies, feeding and changing nappies, and constantly babysitting. I didn't exist I was there to serve, as well as being physically and sexually abused at the same time.

I continued this same trend into my relationships. So for me it's about learning where boundaries need to be, so that I don't keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. How many others suffer from the same sort of behavior as me due to their dysfunctional upbringing?

 

[Phoenix_Rising]

Oh, I do.

My situation was different than yours, but I was also brought up in an abusive family where I was turned into surrogate spouse for both my parents (in different ways, and a very different way from you). It was that that brought me to this forum, though I am not able to post about it yet. I was also physically and sexually abused.

I have had a tendency to AVOID relationships, so I have only had 3 since I was 18. But I too, give and give and give, even if I am getting nothing back. I am so accustomed to taking care of others (emotionally, in my case) that that is what I do. I am so accustomed to not having my needs met, and not just that, KNOWING it isn't possible, that I just automatically adapt rather than trying to set a boundary and I certainly never expect the person to meet my needs, not in a normal way at all. I hope for it, but when it doesn't come I don't start thinking that that is not OK or that there is something wrong with that. It seems NORMAL to me. And I just suck it up and keep giving to the other person, without really acknowledging that is what is happening, but on some level I am hoping if I keep giving to them then they will eventually change and give something back. And I can't see them in a negative way.

My parents never had anything to give, so I just learned not to even have the hope or expectation of that. There was no point, that would simply have been incredibly painful, not to mention futile. So I just had no needs, and accepted that that was how things are.

I also cannot set boundaries, especially in close relationships, I can set a boundary with a stranger just fine (unless it's sexual, then I have more problems). But I have found I cannot set a boundary. No matter how unacceptable something is--it might upset me, but that never comes out in a normal "this isn't OK" type of way. I don't know how to describe it other than, short of physical abuse, I am completely unable to say "this is unacceptable." Because the unacceptable was ALWAYS acceptable. If the other person starts getting upset with me and I sense anger I immediately end up backtracking or trying to talk my way out of it because my terror of abandonment by someone I love gets triggered in a major way.

It's like someone has short-circuited the "defend and protect myself" button. (It never worked when I had it, that was just as futile as having needs.) Add in that stark terror of abandonment, it really is hard to set a boundary.

I'm not even quite sure I know what that is (other than intellectually)--it's like the neighbourhood kids traipsing through the next door neighbour's grass. So many people are coming and going so often in my space that I have no idea what it's like to have a fence there.

How can you put up a fence when you don't know what it's like to have one?

Anyway, lol, that probably doesn't help you much, but, you are not alone. And like me, it sounds like it wasn't just what you DIDN'T learn. It was what you DID learn, which was how to take care of others, put them first, and not have any needs or expectations of your own. Learning everyone else mattered... But you. It was the same for me, just in a different way. I learned that, and that I wasn't valuable, and that I wasn't worth protecting. I also learned that when things are unacceptable, "There's nothing we can do." Just have to accept it, because that is how things are.

None of that paves the way for healthy boundary setting, especially not when you are also physically and sexually abused, which teaches you, (in general, I don't mean you personally) you don't even have control over your own body.

 

[Loloma]

Thank you Phoenix Rising, you hit the nail on the head and said it better than I could. That is exactly how I feel. And I can understand why you avoid relationships. I have reached the point where I am scared shitless of men. I don't trust them and see them all as a potential threat.

I stayed in my last two relationships for many years because of fear of abandonment, when I should in both cases have gotten out years before. It was not only the abandonment issue, it was also the fear of failure. Two totally different men which I won't get into, but still the same when it came to emotional abuse they heaped on me.

My mother was schizophrenic and my father was a sexual predator. In a way my mother was also abused by my father in as much as he had many other women (and children), and sexually abused his own children. He would disappear for days at a time. My mother had her "moods" and lost control lashing out violently. She was like a rabbit and gave birth every time my father touched her. Fourteen children and one miscarriage. So it was like living in the house of horror's.

I have worked hard all my life, because I promised myself that I would never live in poverty after the childhood I had and the constant malnutrition, lack of food and clothing. But have just recently realised that I was taken advantage of in the work place due to my willingness to go above and beyond to please my bosses. Mind you I now have excellent references which in hindsight are a fat lot of good seeing as I worked myself into the ground and ended up on disability. What an idiot I have been.

So here I am alone after everything, broke, unhappy and once again trying to rebuild my life.

 

[Loloma]

My head is in a better place now a days. After going through months of emotional turmoil I am pleased that I have reached the point where I can plan for the future.

Seeing a therapist and being on this forum has helped me immensely. I can understand now how I enabled my ex's to treat me the way they did. It is fine to blame the other party for everything that went wrong in the relationships. But realising why it got to the breaking point is important. For the first time I don't have to spend my time thinking that it's my fault, that there is something wrong with me.

The first relationship was dooming from the outset. In my attempt to escape from my parents, I married the first man that would accept me. I knew nothing about him, his background or his own family. I was still badly emotionally damaged from childhood, and went into this fantasy marriage in a foreign place against my better judgement. He must of seen me coming. It turned out to be a disaster for me and my children. I put up with 28 years of abuse, before I found the strength to leave.

The second relationship was with a man I had known for over 25 years. I thought I knew him, but once again I was so totally wrong. This time he used me to get away from his financial problems, and his ex and children who were hounding him for alimony and child support. So he escaped with my help to another country. This relationship was based on lies and half truths on his part. So I let him use me for years, and received nothing in return emotionally or physically. This went on till I couldn't stand it any more.

I enabled both of them by never setting any boundaries where they were concerned. I never stood up for myself and said no. I accepted the abuse and maybe in a way condoned it by doing so. The relationships were a spin of from my family situation as a child. Do what your told, don't question, keep your mouth shut. Be obedient, be grateful for what you have. Aim to please, bend over backward. All the messages from the past. So I just put up with it all thinking to myself, it's not so bad. I buried myself in work and the kids as a distraction. In the first marriage I drank like a fish to forget. Didn't help, almost killed me.

Here I am now, a little wiser realising that it was not all my fault. It has left me shaken and with trust issues. The wasted years are for me the worst, if only I could of understood then what I know now. Yes, I know it's a stupid statement to make. However I can't change the past, I can only work towards the future with the knowledge I am now gaining. The little steps are getting bigger and I hope to find my way back onto the right path soon. I owe this to myself, my children and my grandchildren. Life is too short to be stuck continually in the past.

 

[intothelight]

(((Loloma))),

Your post brought happy tears to my eyes. I am right there with you! Here is too our much brighter, healthier, and happier futures!!

Deb

 

[Loloma]

Deb, I wish you the same too.

 

[Loloma]

Yesterday my ex came to visit to sort out the divorce.

He was nicely dressed and seemed self confident. The whole visit was an eye opener fro me as not having seen him for four months, somehow I saw him differently. We talked for hours, or should I say I did most of the talking and crying. He showed no remorse nor did he once say he was sorry for the way he had used me financially or emotionally.

He did admit finally that he suffered from impotence. Had seen a doctor who had given him pills to help with the problem. He said he needed to do this so he could maintain his relationship. Now I found that a kick in the face, as he had never done that when he was with me. The pills didn't work and he went back to the doctor. He was told that it was a psychological problem that caused his problem. More fear of performance that anything else.

What came out of this visit was that it was abundantly clear that he had Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It was obvious that his sensitivity chip was missing. He sat there watching me crying and very emotional without batting an eyelid. He show lack of remorse or empathy. He was still deceptive with his answers and showed shallow emotions. It was still all about him. Even though he knew he had a sexual problem he was still on the hunt for women. He was planning to use them the way he had used me.

It is all about the chase and then going as far as he can with them. If it doesn't work out he just goes on to the next one. It's all about deception and playing the game for him. He is a nice looking tall guy and looks younger than his age. There is no remorse, no apologises nothing I should call him shallow man.

 

[Loloma]

I keep replaying that conversation over and over in my head. Is it normal what happened, I don't know, but I sometimes think I am either slow or just crazy.

How can I have a conversation like that, be all sweet and light while it is happening and hours later do a total recall and see what actually went on. My reaction should have been different, I didn't see his true reaction to what I was saying. This is not the first time this has occurred it seems that this is the way I react every time. I go soft and accommodating, nice even as though I feel sorry for the other party. Deep down I want to stab them with a steak knife, but of course I don't. I have to stop reacting this way otherwise I will end up in trouble again. I am such a sap.

 

[anthony]

What came out of this visit was that it was abundantly clear that he had Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

This is the same danger I confronted in another couple of threads here today, you cannot diagnose an ex with such a disorder based on your assumptions and the way they present to you. There is emotional issues between two people who separate, let alone even when together. Your description does not make him a narcissist, nor have NPD, which would have to have been present from childhood / early adolescence.

You CANNOT develop a personality disorder in adulthood. That is by medical fact of diagnostic mental health medicine.

There are too many females (specifically) on this forum recently labelling ex's with a personality disorder of some type, because they went and read it online. You need to not confuse your ex being emotionally cut off from you, or just an arsehole, with having a personality disorder suddenly because it suits your judgement.

Being emotionally unavailable, un-remorseful to ex's after breakups, when they wanted to dump all their stuff on the other suddenly because it suited them. That is not a personality disorder, it is called separation and one party no longer cares about the other. Nasty separations, they happen all the time... the majority are usually viewed that way from one side.

Please don't go down that negative pathway Loloma... it is nothing but negative thinking styles.

 

[Loloma]

Being emotionally unavailable, un-remorseful to ex's after breakups, when they wanted to dump all their stuff on the other suddenly because it suited them. That is not a personality disorder, it is called separation and one party no longer cares about the other. Nasty separations, they happen all the time... the majority are usually viewed that way from one side.

Please don't go down that negative pathway Loloma... it is nothing but negative thinking styles.

Yes the NPD I agree with you. However I think you are being a little harsh. We have spoken of this before, I do take part of the blame for what happened in this breakdown. Because of my own PTSD problems, I enabled him to treat me this way by not setting any boundaries. Everyone sees their own breakdown in a relationship differently and you cannot cluster them altogether like they are all the same.

I made many mistakes in this relationship I know, mainly by giving, giving and giving. From the beginning he took and kept taking to the very end. Perhaps I am more angry with myself than him and therefore tend to blame him I don't know. I am endeavouring to move on and at the same time trying to understand what it is with me that made him treat me with so little respect. Of course I am angry with him, he came with nothing, bankrupt and left with half. Legally it's okay, morally it's not. He didn't put the slightest effort into the marriage as he was looking for a free ride, so yes he is more to blame than me and that is my opinion. You hear all the time of women who take take their partner for everything they can. Like Ivana Trump said "don't get mad, get everything". In my case in both instances the opposite applied and the men did.

I do know you are trying to be helpful and I respect that, but sometimes I think you reach for the sledge hammer and figuratively hit someone over the head with it.

 

[Loloma]

I just wanted to add Anthony that yes it is bad to put a label on someone and I understand your reaction as you see it happening time and again on this forum. I suppose it is such an easy thing to do when you are angry.

I still believe that is something wrong with him, possibly stemming from his own childhood that makes him also unable to live in 'normal' relationship. I won't go any further into this and I will probably never know as he is unable to express himself verbally.

It is no longer my problem and I have to get on with healing, although it does take a long time to get over it. Especially when you don't hate your ex. I only hate what happened. If I hated him it would be easier. Instead I am left sad and disillusioned.

 

[intothelight]

Loloma,

It is OK to be angry and when marriage dissolves a person actually experiences many of the similar stages of grief that happens during death. You know, people can just be jerks and it is OK to be angry, sad, lonely, disappointed, happy, relieved and everything all at the same time.

Emotions are tough, but just go through them the best you can. Focus on you now, and not him. That chapter is over, time to write your new Book of Life!!!

(((Hugs)))

Deb