Relationship Is There A "right" Response?

[Crazyme]

I agree but I just don't seem able to create that situation. Telling him that I feel hurt or refusing to...

If those are honestly your only choices, leave now. No one can be repeatedly verbally abused and get out sane and happy. You deserve better than that and alone is better than that.

 

[scout86]

"You poked the bear. The bear bit back. I'm sorry, but you still poked the bear, you were acting just like my ex-wife."

I might be wrong, but that just doesn't sound like a PTSD reaction, it sounds like someone being a jerk. Now, if his ex-wife was the source of his PTSD and a certain behavior is a trigger, I can see where, maybe, its hard to modulate your response. (from his point of view.) But exactly what was said there sounds like a pretty classic abusive, manipulative jerk. (Everything someone with PTSD does isn't ALWAYS a PTSD thing, after all.)

 

[grimalkin]

I might be wrong, but that just doesn't sound like a PTSD reaction, it sounds like someone being a jerk. Now, if his ex-wife was the source of his PTSD and a certain behavior is a trigger, I can see where, maybe, its hard to modulate your response. (from his point of view.) But exactly what was said there sounds like a pretty classic abusive, manipulative jerk. (Everything someone with PTSD does isn't ALWAYS a PTSD thing, after all.)

He gets triggered by...well, just about anything that involves what he considers "controlling" behavior. That lovely comment came after my being worried about his eating too many cough drops and his even WORSE response, for which that was the so-called apology. It was more an example of his vilification of me, and his unwillingness to really own his behavior. His ex-wife wasn't a source of his PTSD (childhood trauma is), but he saw her as "too controlling," which is an issue for him. The conversation also compared me to his mother, who WAS a source of his trauma.

He considers himself to be, at the base of things, a "loner asshole." He believes that the cut-off, walled up, untrusting person he is when he's most triggered is who he needs to be to survive. Never mind that he is perfectly capable of being a goofy, sweet, nice, loving guy. He doesn't consider his behavior when he's lashing out to be abusive, and turns it around so that whatever triggered him must be the truly abusive behavior.

Basically, he has researched enough about PTSD to think he has his "under control" (even though he's not had treatment for it), and that if he's being triggered it must mean that the person who's doing it is the problem, and not the PTSD. BUT, the rational side of him knows that's not true, and eventually, being ashamed of his behavior starts to come into play.

He truly gets...all I can call it is confused or delusional...when he's triggered. His arguments start to not even make sense, and he starts to project, and even say I did or said something that I clearly didn't (IE, his mom or another abuser, or even he, himself said or did). I think it probably is a bit of flashback in there, but without having a professional actually treat anything, I don't know.

ANYway, yes, classic abusive behavior, followed by the classic abusers response, but almost always in the proximity of some trigger. I definitely realize that not everything is connected to PTSD, but our whole relationship, in retrospect, has been influenced by it, just because of the nature of his trauma. And my finally realizing that even though, in the heat of it, he may not even realize what he's doing, the very fact that he won't get help to figure out how NOT to be abusive, is the problem in itself, is part of what's making me finally tell him that actions DO matter, and abuse is abuse (and be willing to walk away when he's pushing).

 

[scout86]

after my being worried about his eating too many cough drops

Can I point out that that might be seen as...... I don't know... None of your business? Seriously, I'd get a little tired of stuff like that it happened a lot.

he saw her as "too controlling," which is an issue for him.

That definitely can be an issue, It's an issue for me too. Sometimes people just , they each have the right have to accept that they clash in important areas. They each have the right to be how they are, but they probably aren't cut out to be together,

He believes that the cut-off, walled up, untrusting person he is when he's most triggered is who he needs to be to survive.

I totally get that. THAT is PTSD thing. And it's real, not something that's easily controlled. It's something, maybe, you can unlearn.

Never mind that he is perfectly capable of being a goofy, sweet, nice, loving guy.

Because he's dealing with those situations from a totally different place. I can do that too, but, you always kind of wonder what it will cost you in the end.

he has researched enough about PTSD to think he has his "under control" (even though he's not had treatment for it)

I thought that at one point too. It doesn't go away by itself and it's really near impossible to sort it out alone. But it's also really hard and really scary to trust a T enough to get help.

 

[grimalkin]

Can I point out that that might be seen as...... I don't know... None of your business? Seriously, I'd get a little tired of stuff like that it happened a lot.

*smile* Yeah, I can see it would be none of my business, and that was the day I dropped the subject entirely. It was genuine concern on my part because, well, he was eating a LOT of cough drops (like, 40+ in a day), and his dentist was even concerned for the effect on his teeth. He had been complaining of his mouth having issues, and things tasting funny, so it definitely wasn't a "hey you eat too many cough drops, stop" kind of conversation. Anyway, it was a wife concerned for her husband, because he had complaints related to what he was doing, and my trying to point out the relation. And, I will admit it wasn't the first time I'd mentioned it, but, again, any mentions were more of a "Do you realize how many you are eating?" after the second bag in a day (and his response of "I've had this bag like two weeks." Me: "No, I bought those yesterday...don't you remember?" Him: "No..." and then had to proceed to show him receipts because he asked me to).

I generally tried to leave him to his own devices. Unfortunately, in the last year, he had started asking for help with more things that I thought were pretty simple (but in retrospect were things that required concentration on his part, which he has had a hard time with), so I was probably trying to help or offer my take too often, and probably should have even told him to figure more out on his own. I KNOW I was being too "mothering" (for lack of a better term), because of all the help he asked for. Once I realized it, I stopped as much as I could, and only responded to specific requests for help or opinions.

Anyway, don't want to hijack the thread more. It's a "Coulda woulda shoulda" kind of day for me, and my own doubts about what I could have done differently (or not) are kind of at the front of my mind. It's all so frustrating. I'm trying to walk a very fine line between "it's not me, it's him," and still owning my own contributions to the failure of our marriage, and trying not to feel guilty about not behaving "correctly" for someone with his particular triggers, even though I didn't KNOW they were triggers (ie, any talk of family, responsibility, relationship status or problems). So yeah. Sorry! :unsure:

 

[Hojay]

He had been complaining of his mouth having issues, and things tasting funny, so it definitely wasn't a "hey you eat too many cough drops, stop" kind of conversation.

Pertaining to the entire cough drop situation you described. I mean, what were you supposed to do? Say, "go ahead, choke to death on a cough drop, lose all your teeth, I don't care." Of course (!) you alerted him to his excessive cough drop use because you cared. The moment you can step away from a loved one like that and leave them to their destructive behavior is the moment you can basically call the relationship quits. I understand you kept an eye on this (it's just like a wife looking out that her husband takes his insulin, or doesn't eat peanuts if he's allergic, or whatnot.) You have nothing to blame yourself for here. We can all count ourselves lucky if we have someone who cares enough to keep an eye on us. None of that "none of your business" business, in my opinion.

This...

and then had to proceed to show him receipts because he asked me to

and this...

I generally tried to leave him to his own devices. Unfortunately, in the last year, he had started asking for help with more things that I thought were pretty simple (but in retrospect were things that required concentration on his part, which he has had a hard time with)

...sound like he is actually quite debilitated by his symptoms. And from what it sounds like, no matter what you could have done, said, not said he was already on that path. It's also quite concerning, I can imagine, to see that one's own concentration is so bad, one is basically dependent on an SO. Could that feeling of powerlessness have had something to do with his choice to end the relationship?

Of course, all of us make mistakes, say the wrong thing at the wrong time, etc. but all of us deserve someone who can see past themselves, forgive us for we know not what we do, and stay committed. If they can't then we tried our very best - and if they can't, at least we can forgive ourselves for the very forgivable things we've done. Are my two cents.

 

[BlueOrange]

the very fact that he won't get help to figure out how NOT to be abusive, is the problem in itself, is part of what's making me finally tell him that actions DO matter, and Abuse is abuse (and be willing to walk away when he's pushing).

This. A thousand times this.

Perhaps he's right about the connections he's making. Being right to feel threatened doesn't make it right to lash out.

 

[joeylittle]

Anyone got any ideas on how else to react to this?

You've gotten lots of great responses here - I just wanted to add a small thing. The situation you describe requires (to my mind) two steps. The first is some kind of conversation at a good time to have one of "those" conversations - something like "I understand that when stuff goes wrong/is upsetting/you are stressed, you are going to vent that out. I'm not telling you to stop doing that. But I can't be the target for your anger/frustration, anymore. If there is some way I can help you remember that in the moment, I'd be really willing to help with that. And if you take it out on me instead, I'm just going to need to walk away. I'm not deserting you - it's just not good for me or for you or for us, when I take it personally or try and ignore it."

And then the next time it happens, use whatever prompt you and he might have hit upon - and if it doesn't immediately work, say "I'm going to go in the other room. I'll check back with you in [30 minutes, an hour...whatever you think is the life-cycle of his venting]"

This is essentially a way of setting up the rules for the time-out/time-in concept that @scout86 mentioned.

 

[Snowflakes]

I need to spend a lot of time reading the history of all of you here. Every time you all post a thoughtful and insightful reply, it's almost like you have been living in my world. It's like after all these years I'm no longer doing all this alone. Thank you.