Relationship Is There A "right" Response?

[Sighs]

Didn't want to hijack @Hojay's thread but really wanted to talk about this more so...

@Friday's posted conversation was very close to what happens between me and my vet. This is what we've been doing for a while now:

Him: (out of nowhere and usually while I'm trying to help him with something he wants/needs that I couldn't give a rat's arse about) HORRIBLE THING!
Me: WTF? Don't say that!
Him: FFS - EVEN MORE HORRIBLE THING! It's all your fault I said horrible thing because you totally deserve to have horrible things said about you because you are EVEN MORE HORRIBLE THING! You are so f*cking argumentative.
Me: Yeah, I'm not being spoken to like that. (Walks off)
Him: You see? You are a HORRIBLE THING and a QUITTER!!! Mumble f*ck mumble f*ck. DON'T COME BACK! PACK YOUR SHIT AND GO! I NEVER WANT TO SEE YOUR HORRIBLE THING FACE AGAIN!

A few minutes later...

Him: Are you coming back to help me with this?
Me: Yeah ok.

Rinse and repeat - sometimes every ten minutes if the task is really getting up his nose.

I've tried not reacting at all and it goes a little something like this:

Him: (out of nowhere and usually while I'm trying to help him with something he wants/needs that I couldn't give a rat's arse about) HORRIBLE THING!
Me: Stoic silence
Him: FFS - EVEN MORE HORRIBLE THING! Didn't you f*cking hear me? I f*cking said HORRIBLE THING! EVEN MORE HORRIBLE THING!
Me: Clenching jaw to ensure stoic silence
Him: Take that f*cking look off your face. HORRIBLE THING. EVEN MORE HORRIBLE THING. You f*cking insubordinate HORRIBLE THING. Mumble f*ck mumble f*ck. PACK YOUR SHIT AND GO! I NEVER WANT TO SEE YOUR HORRIBLE THING FACE AGAIN!
Me: (Walks off)
Him: You see? You are a HORRIBLE THING and a QUITTER!!! Mumble f*ck mumble f*ck.

A few minutes later...

Him: Are you coming back to help me with this?
Me: Yeah ok.

Rinse and repeat.

So... here's my question. Anyone got any ideas on how else to react to this?

 

[BlueOrange]

Option 1: Leave. I think this option is worth taking seriously.

Option 2: When he says "Are you going to help?" You could reply "I don't feel able to help right now." When he asks why not, tell him that you feel hurt by what he said. Assuming that you have reasons to stay in the relationship, I think it's reasonable to create a situation where he gets to make a choice - he can call you a horrible thing, or he can have your help with the horrible task. He doesn't get both.

 

[Sighs]

I think it's reasonable to create a situation where he gets to make a choice - he can call you a horrible thing, or he can have your help with the horrible task.

I agree but I just don't seem able to create that situation. Telling him that I feel hurt or refusing to help once he has calmed down simply re-escalates everything and we start the cycle over again.

I feel like he has created a situation where my only choices are leave or accept being verbally abused and become a total doormat. Sigh!

 

[Sweetpea76]

What would he do if you actually left for a day or two? If you needed a mental health break? Would he melt down and make it worse?

 

[sun seeker]

I feel like he has created a situation where my only choices are leave or accept being verbally abused and become a total doormat.

When I read what you are going through my first thought, quite honestly, is you should leave.

But maybe there are aspects of this I'm not seeing.

What are the good points in the relationship? Are you sticking it out because a) you think you deserve to be treated this way, b) when it's not horrible it's really awesome, c) you keep hoping if you find the right way to respond, he will change, d) something I haven't thought of?

Because the answer to what you should to is different, depending on what's keeping you in the relationship. I may have to bow out of this thread pretty quickly because relationship advice really is not my forte. Just so you know it's not about you!

 

[Sighs]

@Sweetpea76 - me actually leaving is a bit of an issue for him because his ex-wife disappeared on him when he got back from Afghanistan.

@sun seeker - I think a little from a, b and c. The reason I don't just leave is that I can see how unwell he is. I can see that every little thing overwhelms him. His stress cup overflows many many times a day. I guess I keep hoping that together we can find a way to improve that. But the fact is - how? He refuses treatment other than 4 visits with a psychiatrist per year. And he's not on medication so I have no friggin idea what the doc does in those visits. Sigh!

 

[sun seeker]

His stress cup overflows many many times a day. I guess I keep hoping that together we can find a way to improve that.

The word that stands out here is "together." I think you are right that together you may find a solution. The trouble is, from what you say that isn't what's going on. He is emphatically pushing away your help, so there is no "together" going on.

When he isn't triggered, does that sense of togetherness exist in your relationship? Or has it, at some point?

 

[Sighs]

Hmmm - it has and does from my point of view. He told me on one occasion that he no longer feels connected to me. That was during a reasonably acute episode so I really don't know how he feels. I've tried to tell him that I feel as though he doesn't love me anymore. He just says that is not what is in his heart. Its all just SO f*cked up. Its hard to see any road - forward or back.

 

[Sideways]

I don't know what to offer except that the status quo is not okay. Looking after him means looking after you, and I can't picture a situation where you'd think this was okay if it were anyone else in your shoes.

 

[sun seeker]

He told me on one occasion that he no longer feels connected to me.

Now, here I may have something to offer. With PTSD this does often happen. Positive feelings can be flattened, dampened, for a long time at a stretch. I haven't found any explanation as to why, but it's a typical experience. Does he complain of not being able to feel other positive feelings besides connection? You might want to look up anhedonia. Anyway, I can't tell for sure from here, but it is possible that he still knows he loves you but right now isn't able to feel it or show it. It's unfair to you, but I do see it as possible.

That doesn't make it all right for him to treat you this badly, though. There's no way that is okay. It is verbal abuse.

The fact that there is, and has been, a sense of togetherness in your relationship, is a good sign. There is something to build on if/when you can get him to agree to go to a marriage counselor with you. But he definitely needs to work on his anger management.

Meanwhile, you are going to need to define (more for yourself than for him) what you will and won't tolerate, and what you will do (i.e., leave until he calms down) when he crosses those boundaries. And follow through.

 

[sun seeker]

What I'm trying to get at is a person can have flattened affect, anhedonia, whatever you want to call it, and still act with kindness. Can he own the lack of a feeling of connection as a symptom he is having, and still act based on knowing that the connection is there even if he can't feel it right now? Or is he blaming it on you?

I know I keep asking questions that sort of assume you can talk to him about this and get rational answers, and it is possible that things are so volatile right now that you can't. So this is more about giving you something to ponder. You might have to do a lot of guesswork.

I don't have the right answer for you, because I don't do what you are describing him doing, nor have I been in a situation where someone was treating me that way. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go back and keep trying to help. But that's easy to say from here, and undoubtedly harder to do.

 

[Hojay]

No worries at all about hijacking my thread - my thread is your thread, we're all in this together, sighs!

Him: FFS - EVEN MORE HORRIBLE THING! It's all your fault I said horrible thing because you totally deserve to have horrible things said about you because you are EVEN MORE HORRIBLE THING! You are so f*cking argumentative.

This is the part that gets me the most about the convo - him blaming you for the abuse. It's blatant "victim blaming" along the lines of: "I wouldn't have had to punch you in the face if you hadn't made that snide remark" or "If you don't want to get raped, don't wear that short skirt." I know the comparison is faulty in that these situations are so much more extreme, but the psychology behind it is the same. "You deserve to be abused." It's a sick and insidious line of reasoning...but it works.

As many have said up there, the obvious option would be to not go back and help him after that kind of treatment. But since we're all in the twilight zone here, that is so much easier said than done. I mean, it's clear that that is the only viable solution - breaking the cycle in that way, and taking care of your side of the fence to not get hurt over and over. (I guess that's what we're all here to figure out how to do...)

So I guess maybe it helps to delve deeper into the question of what brings you back to help him after being treated like that, and there are multiple options. I know, for me, it's a bit of all of the following, though some more than others:
1. You see how sick he is, thus you swallow the fact that it's abusive, try to be the bigger person (because healthy) and go back for another round = somewhat in the throes of denial regarding the difference between PTSD and abuse, thus minimizing the abuses' impact, while trying to calibrate your behavior in the hopes you won't be abused anymore. (Which is what he is probably angling for re. the sentence I quoted above.)
2. You are scared that if you leave the situation, he will become so angry/hurt and not take you back (= fear he will end your relationship) And
since it was YOU who left the situation, you could actually be blamed (by him and yourself) that the relationship is over, essentially erasing all the abuse you've received.
3. You are scared that if you leave the situation you will have the space to have the appropriate emotional response to this kind of abuse (anger, resentment/hopelessness about the situation) that you might actually leave him = fear of your own courage in a way.

Thinking about it like this, what are the deeper fears behind you going back into the lion's den? Maybe none of the above, maybe all?

me actually leaving is a bit of an issue for him because his ex-wife disappeared on him when he got back from Afghanistan.

This one gets me too. Knowing so much about their histories, at some point we are completely walled in to have a reasonable and appropriate reaction to their treatment because then we are seen as the abuser! It's so easy to become roped into their narrative and storyline and forget that they are sick, not us. If he interprets you leaving as the same abandonment he received from his ex, that is HIS illness, not your wrongdoing. We can't make up for other people's behavior, and it is not your job. It is THEIR job to start seeing the difference. I know, easier said than done, and it takes a lot of clarity to operate from that space...

He told me on one occasion that he no longer feels connected to me. That was during a reasonably acute episode so I really don't know how he feels. I

This is very hard. Knowing form my own experience with depression, numbness can be all encompassing. However, it is totally possible to at least abstractly understand that this is depression talking, and not a sign that feelings for someone are gone. It's very very painful to be on the receiving end of it, however, I know that too. Even though mine makes clear that it is an all encompassing numbness, that it isn't me, it still smarts. And paired with some of the hurtful things he says, it's pretty hard to not take it seriously...