It Was "like" A Cult...but It Wasn't A Cult

[Air]

Annihilate has never been slang, and it's not a word for a crime, or a slur, or anything. It doesn't fit the examples

Annihilate means complete and utter destruction, and it is sometimes used to refer to the overpowering of an opponent in a game. The great thing about this is that you can put any term in there that refers to an act of extreme destruction and everyone will catch your drift, however if you use a term that is not strong, people will not understand it. It is not a term for a crime, but if you were to literally annihilate someone you would do something like cremate them until there was nothing left (you could call this a "holocaust" I suppose). I don't see why rape would lose its power as a term when other terms do not have this happen to them. Gay only lost its power as an insult because we stopped considering gay people to be bad, and similarly I think rape would only lose its power in slang if we considered it not to be bad.

As for God and Jesus, those specifically become slangy oaths because of the prohibition on using them. The most interesting example of this is probably Quebecois profanity which is almost entirely based on various items or practices of the Catholic church, because Catholicism once held a massive amount of power and using these terms in such a way was a jab at that which was considered holy.

I think the difference with holocaust is how the word has become conflated so much with the Holocaust, that it is impossible to separate the two. With a capital H, Holocaust is not a term that can refer to a general word, but is instead very specific. It's the same reason I think saying "I worked like a slave" is not problematic whereas saying "I worked like a black man in the cotton fields" is. One is referencing a specific historical event, one is referencing a general practice. So by extension, I would say "I'm going to rape you like you're a nine year old Oprah Winfrey when we play Call of Duty" is not generally a good thing to promote as a figure of speech (wow that was a dark metaphor, even for me). Specific historical events tend to not become exaggerated whereas general ones do.

By the way, I like this spoiler thing, but I looked around and couldn't find out how to do it on here. I'd appreciate if you'd be so kind as to enlighten me.

 

[joeylittle]

@Air - here you go (click thumbnail to enlarge). If you have further questions, submit a support ticket :)

 

[Sighs]

@Air - your use of language is - again - problematic. Killing someone in a war or in self defence is - by definition - not murder.

I am starting to think you are a troll.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

But if you take the points of similarity? That gives you real things to work with. As do the points of difference. And both of those? Are your own. Solidly your own.

Agreed! What i had to do what take a piece at a time (comparing them to my therapist's family) and one tinnie tiny bit i has to call it what it was and we moved on.

@Air - your use of language is - again - problematic.

Im not even bothering to reply. One that doesnt listen to reason doesnt listen to reason.

I promise that if someone said "i raped that game", I would need to hold myself from hitting them!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

But in a general sense, watering that down to "it was like a cult" - that's not true. And I think I'm uncomfortable with that. I think it would be fair if some cult survivors found that offensive. But it's borderline unhelpful to me and my recovery as well. Recognising overlap with cult survivors is, I'm thinking, quite a different thing to throwing myself in their camp and using their labels. What I experienced was one on one, not a whole group endorsing and practising the abuse. Different dynamic entirely, and the "group" is pretty core to the very definition of a cult.

I think naming things as they were are very important to our recovery. So was it like a cult in many way? Yes, right? Could it be seen as borderlining of being a cult maybe? Wouldnt be uncommon at all. Loads of cults in the world and loads more that border it.

So...by saying it was cult like or like a cult and it was a borderlining being a cult are both true, correct? If so, just say that.

But, "not wanting to call it cult like to not water down cult survivor's trauma" just isnt the case for me. My trauma was a bonafied cult, had a printed bible, a code, a mission statement, followers...it was a cult. But, you saying "my trauma was cult like; or borders a cult or even was a cult" effects me in no way at all. Your experience with your trauma doesnt effect my experience with mine, does that make sense?

And its WAYYY different then what was going on in the thread that sparked this. You arent saying that the christian church down the street is a cult (first thing that popped in my head), or like the person that tripped and came back up with PTSD. Its not like you are way the other direction and claiming it to be on the extreme end. You are naming how it actually was and in the world of healing (or how i understand the world of healing) thats a good and necessary thing to do!

 

[lalazagna]

Hi Ragdoll,
I grew up in a cult too, and am not bothered when you are explaining "it was like being in a cult".
The way you express yourself makes a lot of difference. For me it did not come off like you are trying to fit "cult" as a whole cause, that instead there were things that did overlap, and that you are very mindful of what bothers you and what could bother others by such statements.

 

[theshadowoftheliving]

I want to reiterate that what @Ragdoll Circus is doing here has nothing to do with what @Air is engaged in. The sensitivity and exploration that Ragdoll is engaged in is meaningful - and her willingness to ask is important. Offense occurs when one party feels that the other has no intention of understanding or learning. I don't think most are offended if someone asks directly - "Hey, I don't know of this is okay, what do you think? What would be a better way to express this? I'm sorry if I accidentally offended you; I wasn't trying and will stop saying that moving forward" The willingness and humbleness to learn is important and prevents deep seated offense.

 

[shimmerz]

"Hey, I don't know of this is okay, what do you think? What would be a better way to express this? I'm sorry if I accidentally offended you; I wasn't trying and will stop saying that moving forward"

*heavy sigh* Yes, in the perfect world. And that isn't the world that I know.

In the meanwhile, it is common to teach people who have these trigger points that it is up to them to deal with their own issues without over reacting. I am not so certain that this type of speak isn't a breach of that responsibility.

That being said, several people that I used to think we friends, seemed to have this commit to 'help me' by using exposure therapy (constantly referring to things that they knew would trigger me into a state) and others that were determined to convince me that I was weak willed and should just 'go to work so I didn't have so much time to think about it'. They absolutely were NOT helpful to me. That was up to them. And it was up to me to decide whether those relationships were good for me and then action upon that. Painful, yes. Necessary, yes.

I guess what I am trying to present here is that it all comes back to us managing our stuff. It isn't up to us to tell people how they 'should be around us'.

 

[Lotis]

This is an interesting thread for a few reasons. I have a very hard time saying what happened to me for what it was. So I understand how using words or not using words is effective. Here is my take on all of this.... People use comparisons all of the time throughout life - I have heard people say "it was like a cult" or "it felt like being in a cult" before. I never felt it was said out of disrespect but rather said because the severity of the situation was as severe as activities that would occur in a cult.

But in a general sense, watering that down to "it was like a cult"

What do you mean by watering that down?

In college a girl friend said "it was like being raped" when we were talking about girl stuff and using personal products etc. When she said that there were some awkward chuckles from the other girls and I thought to myself well clearly she wasn't raped otherwise she wouldn't have said that. At first I was shocked she would use that reference and didn't quite know what to do. When I got my bearings I said to her, I am sure it felt bad but not nearly as bad as being raped and to make that comparison sounds really silly. Quickly she said she didn't mean it like THAT - and she was obviously embarrassed.
People say "things" sometimes for whatever reason, dramatic flare and sometimes they say it because they think of the worst possible scenario that could happen to them personally. They say things without thinking. Was I offended that she said that? No. I kind of felt bad for her because she sounded so dumb. Was I angry that she said it? Yes, because she has no idea what it feels like to be raped and how dare she make it sound trivial. I guess it wasn't trivial to her and in her mind it very well could have been the worst thing she ever felt. Good for her. I am glad she was never actually raped.
Did what she say effect me? Damn straight it did. I felt embarrassed and I felt like I was just singled out with a big stamp on my head "victim"! I felt sorry for myself for knowing what it really feels like. I felt sad because I knew the truth and the truth was it's nothing like she was saying at all.
I have a very hard time saying "it" about myself. I hate labeling things - it is hard for me to talk about my stuff. Still working on that.

People don't think and they say stupid things because they do not know any better. It doesn't mean it is right or OK but it also doesn't mean they are being disrespectful. I personally don't take offense. What I do is take it for where it is coming from. I know the truth. Just because someone uses a reference doesn't mean they are speaking truth or speaking ill to me personally.

~L

 

[Deleted member 35429]

I just wanted to say I completely relate to having been in a one-on-one cult. My experience was SO different than domestic violence. I can't relate to the experience of domestic violence at all but others might assume that's what this was. I felt completely brainwashed, and beholden to someone that was violent and sadistic and found joy in manipulating me into following him into complete isolation. He was very charming yet very sadistic. I also had Stockholm syndrome for this person and I would have done anything he asked and protected him under any circumstance. Looking back at this I feel like I was kidnapped. But I wasn't. I was 15 and willingly went with him. Left high school for him.

It hadn't even occurred to me that people in large more traditional cults would be offended by my use of the word, or disagree with my experience. My assumption is we'd have a lot to talk about!

Regarding the birthing/rapey feeling, I think that is common. Women often describe births that don't go down their fairy tale path as violating because they feel forced to do something with their body that they didn't want to do. I think that is a valid feeling. I was raped and had other sex abuse by that cult like person, and I definitely still feel that birth violation can feel like rape. That's what those women feel so I feel it is valid. They feel haunted and violated and even have PTSD from traumatic births.

 

[Pakadlangitok]

I just wanted to say I completely relate to having been in a one-on-one cult. My experience was SO differ...

This sounds very very much like something I know about, sadly. PM me if you like.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

It hadn't even occurred to me that people in large more traditional cults would be offended by my use of the word, or disagree with my experience. My assumption is we'd have a lot to talk about!

Personally Im not offended and I cant seem to connect with anyone that might as you are only advising how your experience was and how it felt, to you. My experience has nothing to do with your ecperience.

I couldnt seem to relate to CSA and incest victims though all of that was part of my trauma but when I heard about a well known kidnapping, I felt so connected to that and it made no sense to me. I then research all well known kidnappings from 1971 Steven Stayner to Cleveland Ariel Castro and felt so connected to them all and felt "im not alone" but id mentally beat myself down because i wasnt kidnapped (technically).

It wasnt until much later that i figured out why i identify with kidnap victims and not CSA & incest victims.

How you define your past is between you, and your past. Im not in that equation anywhere so why would I be offended? Even if you are on two continents, it has nothing to do with me.

But if one starts to challenge the way i feel about my trauma, that's where i get tripped up. Its the same as someone insisting that your situation was DV only and give 10 millon reasons why its DV only. You know? Im not doing that nor would I. Im just using it as an example of the only time i feel defensive about my trauma.