Our Future With AI

[spinningmytires]

A video explaining non-Euclidean geometry through a story about an AI receiving trauma therapy for symptoms of hallucinating a puppet show.

At first, I couldn’t understand how Euclidean geometry or more precisely, one’s non-Euclidean imagery might be connected to a trauma experience. …spacial disorientation, out of body distortions, the illogical dream-like fragmentation, the surreal …might these resemble a trauma dissociation. Recognizing one’s Euclidean imagery from one's non-Euclidean imagery might be very helpful in clarifying what's real from what's not.

If I’m grasping this, Euclidean imagery follows the conventional logic of 2 or 3 point linear perspective while, non-Euclidean imagery opens the door to almost anything imaginable and illogical. Though both can freely distort imagery, only the non-Euclidean is capable of bending and twisting its imaginary spacial planes ...a bit disturbing or spooky, as if, looking into a ‘fun house’ mirror.

I do think that Euclidean imagery and non-Euclidean imagery can be combined within a single painting, see examples of M.C. Escher’s artwork. However such attempts will never be illogical, as if, merely punching holes in the fabric of imaginary space.

If Escher’s illogical artworks could be presented in a virtual world, I think, this might make the experiencer feel quite ill, as if, they’d found themselves trapped within an hallucination.

When I first began to create imaginary non-Euclidean surrealistic artwork, my anxiety level would immediately sky-rocket and perhaps because I hadn’t yet fully let go of the more reassuring stability I found in linear perspective. I was too fearful of abandoning the logic. However, even the most realistic artwork defies logic. As a artist, this is something I've always had difficulty learning to accept.

Distortions have always been easy to draw or paint. However, the difficulty occurs when trying to combine the logic of Euclidean imagery with the illogical imagery of the non-Euclidean. They always fail to synchronize. Perhaps this lack of integration is a good thing, for it enables me to recognize what’s actually real from what’s merely imagined as real.

 

[OliveJewel]

@spinningmytires nice analysis! These points especially jumped out at me

If Escher’s illogical artworks could be presented in a virtual world, I think, this might make the experiencer feel quite ill, as if, they’d found themselves trapped within an hallucination.

Now I’m very curious about this concept!

my anxiety level would immediately sky-rocket and perhaps because I hadn’t yet fully let go of the more reassuring stability I found in linear perspective.

Been thinking a lot lately about rational vs irrational compositions (in painting and music etc,) and the feelings associated with them. The anxiety rises, I can relate to that, with irrational compositions—but not all the time. Though in cases where it doesn’t I think it might be because harmonic elements sort of rescue the mind? Not sure.

 

[ziter]

Just to clarify, Escher's artworks aren't illogical (quite on the contrary, I would argue). Logic deals with truthiness of statements, not with how much something resembles physical reality. Non-Euclidean geometry is pretty well-defined (hyperbolic and spherical geometry, for instance) and isn't illogical either.

And there's no such thing as irrational compositions. Music is art, not mathematical reasoning. Careful with mixing apples and oranges.

 

[OliveJewel]

no such thing as irrational compositions. Music is art, not mathematical reasoning.

Hmmm… hard for me to think of music in any way that is not mathematical, but you’ve got me thinking…

 

[ziter]

Well from an engineer's point of view, yes, sound is air fluctuations and can be modeled mathematically. But that doesn't mean that music *is* math (it isn't). Birds don't sing rationally or irrationally either. They just sing.

 

[spinningmytires]

Hmmm… hard for me to think of music in any way that is not mathematical, but you’ve got me thinking…

I use to listen to many J.S. Bach fugues. Yes, I'd agree that there's a mathematical element but then, I found myself imagining that I was hearing some of his fugue's repeated voices inside my head. In painting they might refer to this as an 'implied line.' This line or sound really isn't physical present but only perceived within the observer's or listener's mind. This experience goes way beyond science and mathematics.

 

[OliveJewel]

Apologize for the topic but today I learned that there has been a huge flood of AI-generated child abuse images (also called synthetic child abuse)—which are illegal if they have a certain degree of realism—being sold online. The realism thing baffles my mind because that means that cartoon/anime versions of child abuse are not illegal and there is some kind of legal definition of realism.

It is frightening to think about a West World virtual reality type scenario where predators are strengthening their neural pathways of destructive behavior. It feels like a runaway problem where social consequences for vile behavior are eroded because it is so difficult to police virtual and synthetic abuse—which inevitably would lead to real world abuse as those neural pathways demand more satisfaction.

On the other side of the thin blue line I know that detectives impersonate child abuse content creators as a trap, and I imagine they use AI to produce authentic imitations of criminals they need consumers to believe are still actively running websites.

 

[spinningmytires]

Apologize for the topic but today I learned that there has been a huge flood of AI-generated child abuse images (also called synthetic child abuse)—which are illegal if they have a certain degree of realism—being sold online. The realism thing baffles my mind because that means that cartoon/anime versions of child abuse are not illegal and there is some kind of legal definition of realism.

It is frightening to think about a West World virtual reality type scenario where predators are strengthening their neural pathways of destructive behavior. It feels like a runaway problem where social consequences for vile behavior are eroded because it is so difficult to police virtual and synthetic abuse—which inevitably would lead to real world abuse as those neural pathways demand more satisfaction.

On the other side of the thin blue line I know that detectives impersonate child abuse content creators as a trap, and I imagine they use AI to produce authentic imitations of criminals they need consumers to believe are still actively running websites.

This is so very frightening as there's no way of controlling it! I'd suspect that realistic effects differ greatly from cartoon/animations in that, the more unrealistic or symbolic the creation the more likely the viewer would be able to separate fact from fiction. But then there are the neural pathways.

 

[Friday]

today I learned that there has been a huge flood of AI-generated child abuse images (also called synthetic child abuse)—which are illegal if they have a certain degree of realism—being sold online.

Rule 34

 

[OliveJewel]

@Friday, kind of. This would be like rule 34a, synthetic versions of all the stuff rule 34 already produced or intends to produce.

Regardless: points for meme humor!