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Overcoming Self-hatred And It's Relation To Healing

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That has a HUGE impact on our identity and self-esteem. No excuses...just compassion is what's required.

Do you think so @Hope4Now ? May be so as I don't feel like I have an identity per se or much self-esteem, for that matter. Thanks. :hug: Is there a way to convince one's self it is not just an excuse? Or just not worry about that part? Also, if it's not too much trouble, can you think of more examples? They actually make sense (concrete).
 
Oh izmo, that's sweet, yes real ones. I haven't smelled any fake ones yet. That's where I draw the line, hee. I used to like fake ones as well but being I work with a lot of seniors so I don't any more- :eek: - overexposure. :wideeyed: I've become averse to any reminders of work.
 
I guess really what you are saying @Hope4Now is that it is the end product of the cruelty (to one's self). I think the hardest part is cognitively it seems the 'appropriate' conclusion to the 'facts', as it did then.

I think that what I would describe as that "my clothes are on fire" feeling is from self-hatred. I used to think it was anxiety, or triggers, but at the core I think it's that actually. Or that's what is triggered, and all that goes along with it (cognitive explanations, feelings, etc).
 
@Junebug I will post more later today. I have my preteen daughter out clothes shopping with me right now. Needing to put all my energy into staying patient and positive. I have some more concrete suggestions for you.
 
Oh Hopefornow, thank you. Whenever you can is great. Shopping (and with a pre-teen yet) requires you to be both a part-time-shopping-ninja :ninja: AND a saint :angelic: , OMG. Not to mention malls. I was shoveling, thought that was bad until I compare it! :wideeyed: :nailbiting: :) Truly you are so kind.
 
@Hope4future , I'm sorry to write again, but kept coming back to your post, and perhaps that's what's so difficult, you used the word " (the) truth (of).." -that's what's so hard to deny, or refute. It feels like lying or self-delusional to contradict it with words.

And @TimeToHeal , to say "it's not truly warranted". Thank you.
 
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@Junebug - great thread! I don't really have any answers or anything - I am really struggling with this aspect too.

I have been arguing with my therapist on this very thing – self hate for the things that I really think or really have done wrong. Judgements that, to me, are valid.

I really have no idea where I got that from... most always being able to find something redeemable or esteem-able in the most disagreeable, obnoxious, offensive, even yes... abusive people. Like my ex husband and even most of my adult traumas. On some messed up level, I realized they were acting out something I think and that I just happened to be the target. A lot of it pretty much could have happened to anybody.
I can so relate to this. I have felt some form of almost compassion for even a murderer who lived next door to our family growing up. But towards myself for being angry and rude with a clerk? I have no compassion. It feels right to hate me for big and small things.

I can also really relate to what people have shared about feeling shame towards that inner child, and not being able to quite connect with her, and yet sometimes feeling so much like I am her, and maybe even nothing else but her. Especially lately.

Letting go of self hate, or at least trying to stop it in it's tracks, it makes me feel like I lose self control, self power, something... I'm lacking in any better words. I'm not sure how to describe it. I wonder if it is because it stirs up that feeling of what it was like as a kid. I'm not sure.

I hope you find your path out of self hate junebug!
 
Aw @Justmehere , you as well. :hug:

My impression is that you are. I can only say, I love and really respect the enthusiasm and excitement you expressed at both challenging yourself with your T and approaching this 'homework'. :tup: I hope that you do not question too much, or rather I should say if you are able, to just 'try'. You can (as scout I think said?) make different versions as time goes on.

You see, (and this is probably a factor of my old age, lol), I realize when people- ALL people/ any of us (me as well) are hurting or devastated or unwell or disappointed, we can more easily 'lash out' at others. If nothing else, such actions (especially day-to-day ones) are to some degree inevitable. They are also 'past', we can only recognize it's likely, perhaps apologize or make ammends, etc. I also don't find myself angry (at others) a lot. I have this kind of 'mental checklist' I automatically go through, of whether I 'should be', how important it is, if there may be other factors contributing for them, and the consequences of if I return in kind.

Also, for decades up to very recently I really thought I didn't help stop (at the moment) a family member's death. So I guess I considered myself a cowardly murderer, complicant to it because of my own cowardice. So what I am saying is there is a key- a reason- that some of these things carry the self-hatred and shame they do. I hope you can find your key. :hug:

I am not at the point you are yet, but I hope to be one day. I do not think I could argue about self-hatred with anyone. Also, trying to do a semi-affirmation a couple of months ago felt wonderful (at first), but really put me over the edge. I mean, I 'accidentally' almost killed myself. (It really wasn't any 'conscious' decision).It was like one's body rejecting good medicine. I continue to do it, but now with the understanding my mind or heart or whatever may try to sabotage me. You see, it wasn't the fault of the affirmation, I actually believe it is true because it's been explained why, but it is so contrary. ( I guess that this 'trauma' stuff and related stuff IS actually traumatic (which may sound simple, but again is not something I have found easy to accept or 'admit', as regards my (own) history. At least in retrospect it nows makes more sense 'why'. Also, I always did feel as a burden as a child, tried to be wholly independent best I could to cause less harm.)

Probably why it's difficult to also adopt 'self-compassion' about 'stuff'. Self-compassion and self-hatred are pretty mutually exclusive, (I think). But overall, the benefits of the affirmation still far outweigh the risk it took to say (and believe) it. Terrific progress for me. :not worthy:

If one day I actually feel that I "shouldn't" feel the self-hatred (even if I do), I will feel very happy. Because at least I will realize (like much else with ptsd) that it just 'is there'. Part-of-the-journey, as Hope4future said.

I did think, isn't it funny, to see 'hope4now' and 'hope4future'- we all need that, 'hope'.

Good luck with your letter! You can do it!! :tup: Perhaps the feeling of a 'loss of control' is because it is very different from what you've known. Even writing "I am sorry" , is very good! :hug:

Must run off to very glamorous job of vacuuming. :laugh: ) :hug:
 
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Hi @Junebug. Sorry I'm so late getting back and this will be shortish. I want to respond to your thread because I'm struggling with a lot of what you're feeling right now. I had to work very very hard to be in my "core self" and positive with my daughter today. She's a fabulous kid and doesn't really have a clue as to what's going on with me. I'm not sure yet how to talk with either of my kids about it. My therapist said we could all meet together, but that completely freaks me out.

I guess really what you are saying @Hope4Now is that it is the end product of the cruelty (to one's self). I think the hardest part is cognitively it seems the 'appropriate' conclusion to the 'facts', as it did then. I think that what I would describe as that "my clothes are on fire" feeling is from self-hatred. I used to think it was anxiety, or triggers, but at the core I think it's that actually. Or that's what is triggered, and all that goes along with it (cognitive explanations, feelings, etc).

I have felt the "clothes on fire" sort of feeling. For me, it comes from guilt and shame and a deep sense of being worthless and inadequate. Sometimes it happens when I have done/not done something that--at least in my own psyche--makes me fall short of some ideal, some notion of the perfect person I am supposed to be. It can be something minor, like breaking something by accident, or forgetting an appointment, or something major like a terrible error I made in an email that went to the wrong person.

All of these are parts of myself, parts that I somehow integrated from my experience through my childhood.

I am learning, through therapy, that these toxic messages of self-hate are--really--trying to protect me in some way. They are parts that are obscuring my true, deep self. I don't have answers as to how to deal with them yet, but I think the important thing for all of us struggling with this is to acknowledge (even if we don't yet understand) that we internalized a lot of toxic stuff as kids, then morphed it into our self-concept. Our job is to un-morph it, figure out where it came from and why it's there, and work on neutralizing it by self-care all the while.

So...practically speaking...what to do. Hmmm. If I were quite successful at this I might have more suggestions. Here's a few things I try to do every day: look at myself in the mirror, in the eyes, and say, "I am enough as I am." Smile and say hello and make conversation with (or at least be friendly to) at least one person I don't know. Rest. Meditate. Do one small thing I can be successful at and feel a sense of accomplishment about (and I mean small...clean the kitchen sink, write a letter to a friend, make a nice lunch for my kids...etc.). Remind myself that I survived my past and I can make myself new. Go outside and notice the beauty and wild diversity and oddness of even what is in my back yard. Look for examples of love and kindness around me (e.g., the other day, I watched one child stop playing to make sure another child was okay...they didn't even know each other). I could go on. I just try really hard, every day, to be aware that most of the people around me are just as vulnerable and hurt and insecure as I am--and that we're all in this struggle of life together.

Maybe that's too vague, or not very helpful. I don't know. I guess just starting small, and practicing the habit of love. Also try loving kindness meditation. It is very powerful.
 
Thank you so much, @Hope4Now , despite your tiredness. At this moment I am also too beat to respond in a way that would do your post justice, but yes I believe that is how it feels (for me as well, I mean). I can't believe you go through the same clothes-on-fire feeling and reaction (I wish you weren't familiar, :( but selfishly I'll say it helps to know someone can relate). That is very clear, I can't recall the meditation but I will look it up.

I was thinking today how strange it is, or was that things we can't really recognize (especially at the time)
have created or contributed to such a state or turn of events to cause ptsd.

You sound like a GREAT mom. :) I would try to allay your fears. :inlove: :hug:

Funny, when I look back or even now, I feel better just hearing 'it will be ok'. Me, the one looking for the cognitive 'proof'. :rolleyes: But I bet you it's the same with your children. As long as you're there, being yourself, and trying, it means so much. :hug:
 
I feel better just hearing 'it will be ok'.
In another thread somewhere in the serpentine organization of this forum, I was talking with others about my driving need to have someone safe hold me and tell me that I'm okay and be able to believe it. I have a lot of parts who are convinced (with 50 years of convincing) that I am very much not okay, that I don't deserve to be held and comforted, and that I can't believe anything anyone says because I was somehow convinced that the only acceptable response to the world was/is to show how strong and able and fine I am.

Until the PTSD hit me this past fall, I was pretty decent at putting on an "I'm fine thank you" face to the world, and trying to be an "ideal" person I had in my mind. Unfortunately, this ideal was/is forever shifting, and I was forever coming up far short of my own expectations. That is bad. But, what's even worse is when I fall short of OTHER people's expectations of me. Or even when I project and IMAGINE I have fallen short of other people's expectations of me. That interplay is a windy-windy path to feeling like hell.

So now...I seem to not be meeting anyone's expectations of me except my therapist who is trying to convince me a) I'm doing a really good job with therapy (whatever that's supposed to mean) and b) I'm going to not only be okay, but be much more than ok. I told him yesterday that I didn't believe him, couldn't see it. He responded, "Well, that's okay. I can hold that belief for you until you're ready to accept it for yourself." Hmmm. Tricky therapist. I can't fight that one.

Here's another example. When I published my first book for work, I took no pleasure or pride in it because I was brutally aware of its shortcomings. Every time I look at it, I get panicky. In the five years since it has been out, this feeling remains but is dulled only by time and the fact that I have other books out too about which I feel the same way. In spite of the fact that I got good feedback, and a second edition is due out this summer, the feeling remains. In spite of the fact that I spoke to an audience of 500 people about it and they clapped. No reality in which I get positive feedback can dull the razor sharp edge of my inner critic(s). The only reason it is actually out there is that I had to do it for my job.

Now, with the PTSD, I'm watching how my parts are affecting the book I'm working on now. I started it last year, and it was supposed to come out this fall. It is basically done except for the glossary and one graphic I need to make. But I've been stuck on it. It is like torture to work on it because it is not up to my standards. I get the "clothes on fire" feeling whenever I imagine it being published. I am so frozen at work that I'm not sure whether I will be able to keep my job. After several months of therapy, though, I can actually see how my inner psyche works. I seem quite good at either a) doing things that others find helpful/useful/"good" but feeling like I did a sucky job and beating on myself for it, and b) not doing things I should do and beating myself up for it. I am a master at making sure I stay stuck in this self-destructive cycle. It's like self-fulfilling prophecy.

So, that's why I'm practicing on little things. It doesn't always work, but when it does, I start to get used to feeling positive connections with other people and with myself. So, yesterday at the mall, I had a short conversation with the checkout lady who was ringing up the dress my daughter bought. I smiled at her and made eye contact. She returned it. It wasn't any earth-shattering interaction, but it took an effort on my part to reach out in a genuine way--from my deep self--instead of just my reflexive polite but disconnected way. And last night when my daughter wanted to watch some abysmal tv show with me, I negotiated for a different show we both like. It sounds so silly, but doing these little things--reaching out to others, doing something for myself--and having it work out positively because I have taken ownership of it. These things are starting to fill up some empty neglected place inside me. I'm working hard on giving myself permission to feel good about myself, in little baby steps. It's not easy.

There's a number of articles on loving-kindness meditation online, and I think some videos. It can feel odd to do it for the first few times, but if you can open up your heart to it, it is powerful. A yogi I work with occasionally (when I can afford to see her) told me that one should do it at least 10 minutes a day because the effects are cumulative and it can help reset some neural pathways.

So, wish yourself loving-kindness @Junebug and I will wish it for you as well.
 
Oh Dear @Hope4Now , what a beautiful post! I am honored that you would take the effort, and for your candor and honesty. I am 'guessing' (as opposed to 'projecting') that I know how difficult it was to do, if you are anything like me (and by the rest of your posts which are identical to how I think and feel that may be the case). With the exception that I am not accomplished as you are, :notworthy: :) , though I started with a promising future as it were and blew it. I know that compliment might make you cringe but it is true, like myself you sound too hard on yourself.

I really understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. Even your experience with what you've heard from your T. The difficulty in seeing a future, of holding on to hope, of seeing 'progress', of being true to yourself through the smallest choices or assertiveness (and of even finding out 'who' that person is), of the internal critic, the worries and fears and worst-case-scenario thoughts.

I think even the thought itself, or the similar conception of being 'held' and told it's going to be all right, that you are safe, encapsulates so much. The constant (a lifetime for me I know, likely I bet for you as well) of 'getting through', being for others, caring for others, being 'strong', the fear, and yet left with not enough energy even to deal with the ptsd. I truly believe, though others question the 'differences' in you as you've gone along in therapy and made changes, that evidently those changes have been life-saving, even life-gracing, I would call them. Unfortunately it sounds like only you and your T 'get' that, for the time being. Which makes it more difficult, God knows we already question ourselves so much. :(

I do put others and 'everything else' first, often put anything I need to do for myself last and don't have the energy left. I too am dismissive and 'flat' as per compliments or 'sucesses', I really don't see them in that way, either. I can worry endlessly (and have catastrophic/ worst-case-scenario thinking) about the smallest screw-up or disagreeability of others. Not because of people-pleasing so much as that default thinking. Peter Walker I think describes that well- how we 'all' feel we will end up as a bag lady on the street. :( Oh boy. His work is very helpful, that I too will return too.

I do reach out to others, but I will try to find (make) some balance. You are so right: baby steps, baby steps, baby steps. I think also accurate memory (I was thinking of a 38 week exercise I did before that involved that). Being kind to ourselves is difficult. One can only begin somewhere however, finding out what we like as well (even tiny things in the moment).

I will check out the meditation. Do you think it's good to still try if the 'meditation' (phrase, I'm guessing) makes me feel uncomfortable? I was thinking about what you said about looking in the mirror, and about being good 'enough'. I never look in the mirror (except to throw my face on), it's hard to say things to myself.

The only difference I have (or perhaps it's simply expressed a different way) is that I don't have a 'thought' of an 'ideal' person in my head, or who I have to be. And yet, in another way I share the same concept in that I feel like "it's up to me" or I have to 'do' everything', and (yes I guess) do it perfectly (by my definition). It just comes with no sense of 'ideal', my own 'bare minimum' standard for myself really.

I think, actually, though I've actually felt ashamed to post this thread and even regretted it because of that (though I've been thankful too for the discussion, and I know those feelings are related to this), it's actually really critically important. Critical in that without dramatizing it is a life and death issue, ultimately. Because it's not 'static', it either increases or decreases but it doesn't stay silent, it roars.

I watched almost my whole family too, get cancer and or die from their 20's to 50's (and they were told they should have died 10 years prior), without even going to Doctors (mostly). I understand that. I do the same, and I understand the panic/ blinders/ responsibilty that is overwhelming and felt in the present, but at the expense of care for one's self.

But, in another way, it's kind of a beautiful thing to think that life can be so much better, hold so much more joy and gentleness and that feeling of safety. (Come to think of it, I guess that feeling is the opposite of the clothes-on-fire one. And thanks again for telling me about relating to that, when I heard the term coined I thought "Wow, someone finally 'gets' it". But I never heard anyone say it after).

Thank you for understanding, and your Loving Kindness. :) :hug: :inlove:
 
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