Piecing things together

Widow_of_one

MyPTSD Pro
You apparently cannot accept me with my flaws the way I've accepted your adhd.
I keep getting hurt by your inability or unwillingness to be emotionally present empathically even in times of deep pain or need.
I have done a lot of self work and nothing will ever be enough. You will never give me approval, care, safety, warmth, concern again. If you were able to then you would have.
I do not think it is healthy for me to be trying to earn those things. They should be freely given.
The healthy thing is for you to make space for me to find a partner that is willing to meet my needs without me having to prove myself or somehow erase parts of my core self like you'd have to cleave away your adhd.
I deserve to be with someone that is willing to accept me as I am and love me as I am. Not someone that will only meet my needs if I put myself in a perfect container.
As I said before I need you to follow through on it bc I can't.
I need you to stop hurting me by keeping me in a space of hoping for something you'll never give me. For something you are capable of doing but won't.
Please do not make me stay in this situation anymore.
It is bad for my self esteem and mental health to go months and years being told through actions that I am not worthy of having my basic relationship needs met.
HealingMama, you need to do these actions not him! Manipulative people won’t change they can’t. You have got to take the steps and do it. 2018 I started having “emotional flashbacks” and I started seeing my friends as they are instead of what I thought they were. I also asked them to change: as in, stop lying! I would have gotten more results asking for a dog to change! It was painful but I did it; and learned that without the children that I called friends I suddenly am able to take care of myself better bc I don’t have them as an albatross around my neck dragging me down emotionally, financially, etc…keep going do this for your kid if you can’t do it for yourself!
As I read your words I was really loved my struggle with my fiends was exactly like yours’. Generally me pleading with them to make changes. And them continuing their behavior.

It is painful to see you go through this but the idea of change is in your mind and that is good!! Keep moving forward.
 

HealingMama

Sponsor
Thank you @Widow_of_one I am working on it.
Currently in a "not ending my relationship" phase at the moment. He's been working more on weekends, leaving me with a sample of solo parenting, and I'm not sure I can do it almost 100% of the time. So I'm trying to make it work now.

He is communicating better. Trying to, anyway.
 

HealingMama

Sponsor
We have an appointment with the lawyer this Wednesday.

I found out he was ignoring multiple calls from the voc rehab job placement counselor, and he did it so many times she almost fired him off her caseload.

I tried to discuss this with him - why it is a betrayal of trust, why it is a stupid decision. He claimed he didn't know there would be a social impact. I asked him how did he not know that when I warned him multiple times that ignoring phone calls is likely to cause issues for him in getting a job, because he also would ignore a call when I knew the phone was right in front of him. He said he didn't know I said that to him bc when I was clearly complaining he stopped listening, and he just tunes me out if he thinks I'm complaining.

If this were a normal relationship that would be hurtful and annoying, but because he can have such severely poor judgment, him doing that makes him dangerous.

I tried to discuss this further but he wouldn't have the conversation and turned off my text messages.

I am so done with this loser. I busted my butt to get him set up with voc rehab even after I found out he lied to my face about having already done so. I asked him if any doctors have told him he could have ASPD because that would help me understand some of what is happening.

There's a difference between having a condition that makes things hard, but taking responsibility for managing it, and what he is doing. He's just making crap decisions and taking me down with him.
 

JadeB.

MyPTSD Pro
Sad to see it's just more of the same stuff over and over.

I hope you follow through with a divorce or at the least live apart for awhile so you can both work on yourselves.

It sounds like a never ending cycle you're caught up in. And one of you needs to end it.
 

HealingMama

Sponsor
Thanks @JadeB. We had a conversation. The lawyer meeting probably won't happen but I am still pushing for a separation. Not out of anger, desperation or impulsivity but just... I need a reset. He doesn't see me. He makes crap decisions. He admits that he ignores me based on things that happened like 4-5 years ago. I'm not sure we will make it long term but I feel like it would be easier to heal if we take a break and focus on ourselves.

It is very up and down and exhausting.
 

ruborcoraxxx

MyPTSD Pro
I'm sorry you're going through this @HealingMama . Whatever the reason he's like he is, if it's unbearable it's unbearable. Don't let the fear of losing what is there set you aback. What you feel like you're loosing now, you can build it again on better bases I'm confident of it. Much courage through everything.
 

Widow_of_one

MyPTSD Pro
We have an appointment with the lawyer this Wednesday.

I found out he was ignoring multiple calls from the voc rehab job placement counselor, and he did it so many times she almost fired him off her caseload.

I tried to discuss this with him - why it is a betrayal of trust, why it is a stupid decision. He claimed he didn't know there would be a social impact. I asked him how did he not know that when I warned him multiple times that ignoring phone calls is likely to cause issues for him in getting a job, because he also would ignore a call when I knew the phone was right in front of him. He said he didn't know I said that to him bc when I was clearly complaining he stopped listening, and he just tunes me out if he thinks I'm complaining.

If this were a normal relationship that would be hurtful and annoying, but because he can have such severely poor judgment, him doing that makes him dangerous.

I tried to discuss this further but he wouldn't have the conversation and turned off my text messages.

I am so done with this loser. I busted my butt to get him set up with voc rehab even after I found out he lied to my face about having already done so. I asked him if any doctors have told him he could have ASPD because that would help me understand some of what is happening.

There's a difference between having a condition that makes things hard, but taking responsibility for managing it, and what he is doing. He's just making crap decisions and taking me down with him.
You seem like a good hearted person and you are making excuses for him. To me as you speak he is making “crap decisions and taking you down with him” you can SEE what is happening and when you get to this space you are Ok!! I hate to say it but I’ve been there myself.
I have recently uninvited certain “repeat offenders” out of my life for lying, cheating and I feel better. At first I felt sad but eventually I have been feeling better snd better.
I am praying for you to kick him out of your life once and for all. And don’t jump into soemrhjng new! Enjoy being free.
For me it’s been a huge journey of kicking “repeat offenders” out of my life for about 4 years!! That is how many backstabbing fiends i had and honestly ive leaned some valuable life lessons.
my most recent is: don’t accept a blanket “I’m sorry”. If they don’t admit they lied (Cheater, stole etc) specifically a “blanket apology” doesn’t work. For example, a fiend did mine last year “forgot we had made an appointment for me to do her stimulus”. The next day I was frantic bc she didn’t call me so I called the cops! (She has a lot of health problems and doesn’t go out of the house much unless it’s to shop). Long story short she calls to apologize and says: she forgot but nothing to worry bc her brother is going to do the stimulus. I let her off the hook with a simple “I’m sorry I forgot” and this year it happened again.

dealing with losers/criminals/liars/cheats is hard work!
Keep the faith you’ll be ok I know it you are smart you see his behavior and are tolerant. What it’s taken me years to accept is that he will do this to whoever he’s with it isn’t personal!
take trash out to the curb and leave it there bc if you don’t the smell will drive you crazy!
 

HealingMama

Sponsor
You seem like a good hearted person and you are making excuses for him. To me as you speak he is making “crap decisions and taking you down with him” you can SEE what is happening and when you get to this space you are Ok!! I hate to say it but I’ve been there myself.
I have recently uninvited certain “repeat offenders” out of my life for lying, cheating and I feel better. At first I felt sad but eventually I have been feeling better snd better.
I am praying for you to kick him out of your life once and for all. And don’t jump into soemrhjng new! Enjoy being free.
For me it’s been a huge journey of kicking “repeat offenders” out of my life for about 4 years!! That is how many backstabbing fiends i had and honestly ive leaned some valuable life lessons.
my most recent is: don’t accept a blanket “I’m sorry”. If they don’t admit they lied (Cheater, stole etc) specifically a “blanket apology” doesn’t work. For example, a fiend did mine last year “forgot we had made an appointment for me to do her stimulus”. The next day I was frantic bc she didn’t call me so I called the cops! (She has a lot of health problems and doesn’t go out of the house much unless it’s to shop). Long story short she calls to apologize and says: she forgot but nothing to worry bc her brother is going to do the stimulus. I let her off the hook with a simple “I’m sorry I forgot” and this year it happened again.

dealing with losers/criminals/liars/cheats is hard work!
Keep the faith you’ll be ok I know it you are smart you see his behavior and are tolerant. What it’s taken me years to accept is that he will do this to whoever he’s with it isn’t personal!
take trash out to the curb and leave it there bc if you don’t the smell will drive you crazy!
Thank you. I especially resonate with the last two things you said. This isn't personal, and I should take out the trash before it stinks up the house. I am working on it.

It has taken me YEARS to start to see that this isn't personal to me. For a long time I thought this was my fault somehow.

I agree with you that releasing people who behave badly is a good call. I am trying to understand why I have been stuck around that. We talked about that in therapy today. (More on that later.)

I am moving toward getting away from him, maybe forever maybe not, I don't know. I am hitting a point where he will probably not demonstrate the level of effort that would be required to hang in there while he grows. Maybe if I left him when all this dysfunction first started, he'd have the energy and motivation and I'd have the patience. He thinks I'll just forgive everything (because I have). I have stopped doing that. Now I am just being strategic. (More on that below.)

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HealingMama

Sponsor
I emailed my husband's parents about him almost ruining the voc rehab support to let them know that I believe a therapeutic separation will be necessary some time in the next few months due to his poor judgment and refusal to listen to me trying to protect us from unwanted consequences. Many people have told me that communicating to them was a bad call, but I wanted them to know how bad things are.

My husband manages his reputation and downplays his issues and the people close to him end up dealing with the mess. I wanted the truth known before he would try to spin it in a way to make me sound bad vs facing these terrible decisions and dysfunctional ways of dealing with himself.

And honestly, I've backtracked so much, I thought if I email them and include them, it will help me be accountable to maintaining the position that I have taken. It would be much harder to go back on what I said now that they know I have wanted this change. I respect his parents, and do not want them to see me as stirring up trouble for no reason. I do not believe that is how they see the situation based on how they answered me.

The original idea of the email was going to be fairly vague, but when I told my husband I would be getting them involved he laughed and said "go ahead, they know how you are, and what you're like when you're like this."

Translation: HealingMama is crazy, and is just acting out her crazy, and nobody will take her seriously.

Because he said that, I took my time and I gave them a fair amount of detail while doing my best to be fair, reasonable, charitable in how I say things, while not white washing anything. Nobody can say that I was just acting crazy, when I describe what he is doing. I'm sure I look crazy sometimes, because his behavior is crazy-making.
He should not have implied that I have a reputation with his family for being nutso if he didn't want me to explain at length why I am hitting a limit of what I can tolerate with him.

His dad answered the email today. His answer was kind and empathetic. He expressed that they want our relationship to be happy and healthy but do not know exactly what to do, especially since my husband did not tell them what he wants from all of this. He offered to sit down with my husband alone or with the both of us to see what they can do to be helpful. His dad even said "Neither [of us] discount or minimize the pain you express, we certainly do not dismiss it, nor do we fail to recognize that deeply-ingrained behaviors have contributed to some of the difficulties."

I really could not have asked for a better response from them. My husband tried to guilt me for emailing them, saying it hurt them and caused them pain. But I do not believe that I should have to deal with the fallout of his bullshit on my own. He is making a big mess, and it's stressful, and I need his larger circle of caring people to help because I can't stand here isolated managing this mess alone anymore. If he cares about causing them pain then he should care about causing me pain too, and take steps to stop doing it.

I think ultimately husband's complaints about the email are more about him not being able to control the flow of information about what happened. He couldn't hide it or manipulate anyone now. He made it sound like his concern is the parents but it's his own ego of course.

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HealingMama

Sponsor
In other news, husband lied again on Monday. Caught him in the lie only when I asked him to prove what he was telling me. Then he wanted to argue that what he said wasn't a lie. I asked him to call 2 people and he said ok. I asked if he called them, he said yes, I asked what they said and his answer felt off so I asked him to prove he called. At that point he confessed he hadn't called the 2nd person. When I pointed out this lie, he's like that's not a lie, I just answered the question you asked. No, if you didn't do the thing entirely, and I ask a question that implies you did the thing entirely, going along with my assumption is a lie of omission. Of course at that point he complained that I have to make a big deal out of everything.

I said oh no sir, not this time, you are NOT going to sit there and imply I'm the problem here, when you are alienating everyone and sabotaging things and lying to my face, and when I point out how these lies damage trust you just lie some more. This is on YOU, and has nothing to do with me. Later he made some similar comments and I said this isn't my issue, this is the consequences of your issues not mine. Don't you dare imply otherwise.

I am getting stronger in my ability to resist his toxic brainwashing.

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HealingMama

Sponsor
Yesterday, I discovered that calling him out on the half truth from the day before was not accurate. He actually did not try to communicate with the first person we discussed speaking to either. He acted so put upon that I'd accuse him of lying because he only did half of what I asked, when the entire time he was covering up for the fact that he actually did none of it. So the lie from the day before actually was two lies.

I have a hard time believing he even has a conscience at this point. It feels like all this talk about shame is just the story that he discovered I will accept, and that all the negative emotion is just frustration about getting caught. I hate not even knowing if my husband is acting out bc he's broken or bc he's taking some inner pleasure from making my life crazy.

In the process of finding this out, I also discovered a text exchange between himself and some girl who seems younger based on how she writes. They have been in communication since at least January of 2021. They have regular phone calls and text often, and he deletes the conversation. They both used hearts and kiss emojis in the conversation. Apparently most of their dialogue happens when I am asleep or when he is traveling without me. I confess that I pretended to be him texting with her a few times to see if I could get more detail about the nature of their relationship. It's not like I can confront him and get a straight answer, clearly.

My husband did not mention the girl when he got home from work even though I was texting her from his google voice number. He's acting like nothing unusual happened. I don't know if that's because he somehow didn't see the conversation, or he saw it and is happy that I know he's been hurting me and lying to me and didn't make drama about it, or what. I suspect the latter. He thinks he's gotten away with something. I do not see how he could reliably delete messages from someone he didn't want me to know existed... for months... and somehow miss that there were messages between them that he didn't write himself.

The interesting (devastating) thing about this, is I told him early in the marriage that I was not 100% monogamous, and that if he ever developed feelings for someone else to just come to me and we can discuss it, and he would not automatically be made to cut contact or something and in fact we could potentially open up the relationship to accommodate those needs. I made it very clear that I'd rather be able to consider more flexible relationship boundaries than have him go behind my back.

He had a free pass to sleep with someone besides his wife. All he had to do was be open and honest. And instead of doing it that way, he's gone behind my back for months. Maybe there is an alternative explanation but based on all these other behaviors, it's smart to assume the worst of information like this.

I feel like I am living in a nightmare.

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