Pity Parties

[doc leda]

I believe you can The Albatross. The model means something to you and speaking from your heart and experience is a great place to start. Intelligence comes from many places, experiences and emotions, and multiple intelligences exist. I will offer as much support as you need to get started.

 

[The Albatross]

I'll consider it and collect my thoughts. I may do that, but doubt it will be today. I did a challenge yesterday and am preoccupied with that at the moment. Thanks Doc.

 

[Lucycat]

Time for me to add my thoughts.

Prior to coming to this forum I had never heard the term 'Pity Party'. But I immediately fell in love with it. It hit a nerve and explained perfectly to me what I was doing to myself.

I understand people might find it hurtful if directed at them, but it has never hurt me.

I have since used it in therapy, to explain to T how I was feeling. That perhaps I was down, depressed and feeling hopeless and helpless, but could see that it was self-perpetuated. I needed to do something/anything to stop the party and move forward. If T had simply agreed, he would have been joining my party. Instead he has helped me investigate why I was at this point and look at ways of getting out. It was not in his gift to stop the party for me, only I could do that.

Since then I have been able to look at my own negative thinking and report back to him how I have done it. That way my parties are much shorter and I don't have to wait for T to help.

If people on this forum think I am indulging in a pity party, I would hope they tell me. I believe in the power of positive thinking but know sometimes I need a kick up the backside to remind me.

 

[Red Feather]

I like agreeing to disagree. It is the best thing in the world really. Tolerance and respect go hand in hand with it. Life is full of contradictions. It is obvious for me that both parties can be right in their own way.

My current T is strict and today I just fell apart and crumbled on her. If she had told me I was having a pity party today I think I would have left her office and never returned. But at the same time I appreciate it when people can be direct to me. I appreciate honesty.

 

[Meadowsweet]

I am unsure if you had a specific discussion or situation in mind when creating this thread.

I shared a little bit of my self-reflection, because sometimes the responses that others give can just click and bring a different angle to the reflection that hadn't occurred to me. So that's my intent, and I have gained from writing the thread.

I'm ok at analysing why I feel the way I do sometimes, and certainly the emotional upbringing is something I'm familiar with: I know I have weaknesses there. And those weaknesses makes it difficult for me to decide where boundaries should be, and how to let others know where my boundaries are.

I understand a lot from analysing words and the meanings we give them. It's a tool that helps me to look along the psychological pathways from experiences to present perceptions.

Others replies help me to question and realise things about the use of the word. And the use of the word represents an attitude or behaviour.

I have a choice in some ways of who I want to become, but I don't know who that is. There's a lot that I've been taught is successful or respectable, and I've found that it isn't. So I try to find what is really important to me in life, what my asiprations and criticisms of the world around me are. And all this helps me to shape myself.

 

[heidi]

I think it's best to err on the side of caution when communicating on a site like this because there are a lot of vulnerabilities and sensitivities in people sometimes unpredictably toward certain words and concepts.

Wow, even trying to be careful I just reread what I wrote and realized in what way that could be taken wrong.

By people I guess I meant my own self and nobody in particular.

I do feel like there is sometimes a little bulliism in a chinashop here. That bothers me.

I think sometimes this whole suggestion of personal responsibility chaps my hid. If that worked for you then great. But to suggest others aren't trying hard enough or don't have the right attitude..

 

[anthony]

It is best described by development theories. Development is about encouraging others to explore their thinking, feeling, knowing and doing and guiding them through other perspectives for the purpose of finding something that they can relate to express themselves and express the point of view of other parties. It is never about making decisions for others...

...If we re-read your original post, we can learn that during your development stage you were not allowed to express your emotions for fear of criticism and punishment. Those who have read your OP should be able to discern that you were raised in an unhealthy thinking environment and you might be concerned as to whether you have adopted some of these unhealthy thinking patterns. Those that have taken the time to read the OP, should also have the good sense to avoid pushing buttons that would make you feel fear, criticism and punishment. So why was this not respectfully considered in others’ words other chose to use?

And there is the exact issue with trying to apply psychology in every day life. Developmental theories are just that, they theorise and rationale certain traits we develop. There are also so many, all of differing views. People choose a developmental theory/s based on what clings to them best. What feels most comfortable with them.

The above is an exact problem with psychology, being to take developmental theories in context, analyse what a person is expressing, then try and psycho-analyse your response.

What ever happened to just talking Doc? What ever happened to just expressing yourself, without trying to analyse what the other person is saying? Support is just that, support. Life cannot be a constant analysis to the nth degree when listening to others. The "others" would soon no longer be listening, and instead opting for someone to just talk with them, not analyse them.

Freud was a genius, no doubt about that. He paved the way for more rational and sound theories than his own, theories that have more empirical data to substantiate aspects of them, compared to his own. Most development theories contain some aspect of Freud within them, hence the theoretical component.

Trying to analyse every single person, then respond, means that all you're doing is meeting another persons needs, never saying what you may truly mean or think. The problem with too much analysis from a third party is that honesty goes out the door.

Don't get me wrong doc, you're obviously a very intelligent person, just saying... when does academia take a back seat to common-sense and honesty!

 

[Nicolette]

Trying to analyse every single person, then respond, means that all you're doing is meeting another persons needs, never saying what you may truly mean or think.

I have to agree.

 

[The Albatross]

Personally, I found, with regard to transactual analysis... that it fed my sense of victimization, and gave me a false sense of "control" for quite a few years. I could see my teacher's intent or at least what I thought was his intent: to give me a framework and some tools to endure domestic violence in my home that was completely outside my control. And it did do that.

But a by product of that was a false sense of control... I ended up thinking (being only in my teens and early 20's at that time) that I could protect myself from unwanted people and situations, because I was very clever. Well that was a false belief that got me a whole lot more trauma. Sure, some of the tools worked, about half the time. But in the end, I realized that I needed to look elsewhere for a better model... one that could teach me to endure adversity or trauma and come out the other side without being suicidal, homicidal or violent, depressed or internalizing rage by self harm.

REBT, CBT, ACT, and DBT are doing that along with giving over to a faith based system of living.

 

[The Albatross]

Ack. I don't know that I stated that very well... it was a bit more complex than that, but it's the best I can do at the moment.

 

[doc leda]

The victim, protector, persecuter triangle I think can be more complex that what comes across on the surface.

For example, the person who feels they have been unfairly treated (the victim) may feel justified in displaying attributes more commonly associated with the persecuter. Or they may put themselves in the role of protector of people they percieve as being victimised. In this way they remain in denial of their feelings of victimisation, and that can feel safer.

I wanted to show you how very smart you are in your thinking Meadowsweet. So, I have attached a document that helps to explain what you are talking about the complexity of the triangle, switching of victim to persecutor and denial. Every role in the triangle has an element of safety. It may feel more familiar or safer to be in the role of the victim, but for others it may be feel safer or more familiar to be in the role of protector or persecutor - to protect oneself or others, to fight for yourself or others, and to comfort or explore oneself or others. We can shift around this triangle, although being stuck in one place may become unhealthy for yourself and others.

I have since used it in therapy, to explain to T how I was feeling. That perhaps I was down, depressed and feeling hopeless and helpless, but could see that it was self-perpetuated. I needed to do something/anything to stop the party and move forward. If T had simply agreed, he would have been joining my party. Instead he has helped me investigate why I was at this point and look at ways of getting out. It was not in his gift to stop the party for me, only I could do that.

Lucycat, what you have said is very interesting. I am hoping you can explain the benefits of referring to yourself as having a pity party. When you go to therapy and say you are having a pity party you rightly state that you are able to self reflect and determine that what you are feeling is unhealthy pity. That is exceptional work. You have sparked my curiosity greatly, and I am afraid I have many questions and thoughts about the possibilities. I hope you will consider the following questions as posits of possible benefits and a desire for a deeper understanding of how this is helpful and unhelpful.

Is it possible that using the term pity party on yourself, you might be able to create some distance between yourself and your emotions that enables you to play with them, move them around and address them with less harm to yourself than feeling them at that point in time? Was there a time when you felt you needed to feel what you were feeling to own those feelings and does this come before or after objectively placing the feelings at a distance?

How will others know that what you need is a kick up the bum as opposed to compassion, listening, kindness or something else? Is the kick up the bum help you immediately reach the goal of getting out of your funk, or you do resist for a bit and then later choose to get out of your funk?

What exceptional work you have done on self reflecting and recognising when you are in a pity party. Thank you for sharing your perspective Lucycat.

I like agreeing to disagree. It is the best thing in the world really. Tolerance and respect go hand in hand with it. Life is full of contradictions.

‘Agreeing to disagree’ can be a healthy approach to arguments that involve a differing perspective and they do require tolerance, respect and honesty. What else does agreeing to disagree require and what is the end goal. If one party is unhappy about agreeing to disagree then the efforts of one may be muted. Being allowed to self expression, being listened to, acknowledgement of contribution to a conversation and allowing a balance of power may be some of the requirements to reach ‘agreeing to disagree’.

When assumptions are at play and the ‘agreeing to disagree’ is not accepted as a sharing of a balance of power, then one party may view it as the strength of other others opinion is greater because it is more set and that that person ‘thinks’ they are more superior in the conversation. How do we convey a balance of power and thinking in a conversation to another so that ‘agreeing to disagree’ is mutually accepted to ensure a mutually healthy outcome?

A therapist are less inclined to use a term like ‘pity party’ with a patient, it is more of a term that a partner or friend would use with people. A therapist is there to help guide you through thinking and they are more likely to tell you that something is unhealthy thinking and ask what it is that you want to achieve out of the conversation, than to kick you when you are down.

Thank you for your thoughtful words Nadia.

 

[doc leda]

I'm ok at analysing why I feel the way I do sometimes, and certainly the emotional upbringing is something I'm familiar with: I know I have weaknesses there. And those weaknesses makes it difficult for me to decide where boundaries should be, and how to let others know where my boundaries are.

So I try to find what is really important to me in life, what my asiprations and criticisms of the world around me are. And all this helps me to shape myself.

I believe that you did establish boundaries in your OP and that is very courageous and shows great strength and self understanding.

If we look back at the case study, we can also consider that both Jack and the husband have a pea (or a handful) under brick walls. Jack was raised to believe he is intelligent, listened to and cared for. If he has a similar upbringing to the husband and faces stress at work where these attributes are questioned, it can be unnerving for them and make them question their role and their future self as much as others and it could be more subconscious if they have not had the opportunity to self reflect.

The outcome of the conversation between Jill and husband was unhealthy and neither had the answer to what was an appropriate transaction and behavioural response. If Jill was able to analyse the husband and determine that there is something more she needed to know about why he feels the way he feels, Jill would allow him to vent. Venting can alleviate stress. If Jill explained how she felt about her childhood, there would be understanding and emotional openness in the conversation where an exchange of boundaries can be applied to form a healthy outcome in the future for both people.

This is exchange is very much confined to the safety of a relationship. When in a larger group of people, the many peas under brick walls increases, and we never really know what is respectful to everyone in a larger group. In a larger group we can ask people to explain where they are coming from and there may be an opportunity to mutually ‘agree to disagree’ and share a balance of power of thinking in the conversation, and both parties can walk out of a conversation in a healthy way.

I think you have articulated the end outcome of you want from an exchange and where you will find the strength and confidence of who you are now and who you will be in the future in your closing statement. Priorities, aspirations, boundaries and what the world could do without.

I think it's best to err on the side of caution when communicating on a site like this because there are a lot of vulnerabilities and sensitivities in people sometimes unpredictably toward certain words and concepts.

Heidi, you are absolutely right, there are a lot of vulnerabilities, sensitivities and unpredictability within any exchange of words. A forum like this can be a challenging place because of those difficulties are personally emotionally deep, and there can be a propensity to make a statement in relation to oneself or others in a harried manner. It is quite difficult to determine when others could try harder or their attitude needs modification when we have distance to that person. What you have said has come from a good place and is a very valid observation. It doesn't sound wrong to me and thank you for sharing.