Hi. Same as my vet friend. He told me if I wanted to chat that I can phone him even at 2am since he got used to it when he was in the army. It really made me confused because he seemed like a caring and dear person. I think it's just part of the symptoms being ovetwelmed with other issues and isolating socially.
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Please Help Me Understand
- Post starter NaeNae75
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EveHarrington
VIP Member
Yep, I’d say they’re “talking”.
blackemerald1
VIP Member
Be wary of taking his sons description of what is happening. Ask him?
grimalkin
Gold Member
Bluh. That would...yeah that would hurt. Yes, on one hand, technically, he broke up with you. On the other - jeebus at least be consistent.
Personally, I would probably ask, and not (necessarily) go by what the son says. Kids pick up on stuff - I knew my dad and his "friend" weren't just "friends" when he and my mom were separated, and I was 10. BUT! I also had a...not great childhood...and my knowledge of topics that are best left to adults was a bit more advanced (no physical/sexual abuse - but I'm finding out, now, that my mom relied on me too much for emotional support. ANYway).
And really? Because I don't trust much right now? I'd also probably take whatever dude says to deny with a grain of salt, too. It would be all I could do to not call him a hypocrite.
So yeah. If it was me, I'd want to talk to him, but probably, ultimately, wouldn't. Because I can already hear the "reasoning." "Well, we are broken up! This is why I didn't want to get close again because I'd be giving you false hope! I never said I wanted to get back together with you!" Or, conversely, "You don't trust me! I was trying to get advice on how to make things better with you! But if this is how it's going to be, I think I was right to break up with you!"
And, yeah, I know, none of us are mind readers, and it's not fair to not give him the benefit of the doubt, and don't put words into his mouth, and well the relationship IS broken up...etc etc etc. But, well, I've been around a few blocks more than a few times.
And, as I tell my sufferer (who "isn't like anyone else! You can't compare me to other guys! You don't know what you're talking about! You don't know me!"): just because HE can't recognize human nature, doesn't mean it doesn't apply to him. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
Personally, I would probably ask, and not (necessarily) go by what the son says. Kids pick up on stuff - I knew my dad and his "friend" weren't just "friends" when he and my mom were separated, and I was 10. BUT! I also had a...not great childhood...and my knowledge of topics that are best left to adults was a bit more advanced (no physical/sexual abuse - but I'm finding out, now, that my mom relied on me too much for emotional support. ANYway).
And really? Because I don't trust much right now? I'd also probably take whatever dude says to deny with a grain of salt, too. It would be all I could do to not call him a hypocrite.
So yeah. If it was me, I'd want to talk to him, but probably, ultimately, wouldn't. Because I can already hear the "reasoning." "Well, we are broken up! This is why I didn't want to get close again because I'd be giving you false hope! I never said I wanted to get back together with you!" Or, conversely, "You don't trust me! I was trying to get advice on how to make things better with you! But if this is how it's going to be, I think I was right to break up with you!"
And, yeah, I know, none of us are mind readers, and it's not fair to not give him the benefit of the doubt, and don't put words into his mouth, and well the relationship IS broken up...etc etc etc. But, well, I've been around a few blocks more than a few times.
And, as I tell my sufferer (who "isn't like anyone else! You can't compare me to other guys! You don't know what you're talking about! You don't know me!"): just because HE can't recognize human nature, doesn't mean it doesn't apply to him. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
blackemerald1
VIP Member
I agree with everything @grimalkin just described but even so I would still risk it all and ask him directly. Because I cannot handle being in my own head and relying on other's perceptions (his son) to know what is real.
If he denies and it doesn't sound real then I guess you could accept that and pull back anyway.
You know him better than anyone so you may be able to see if he's telling the truth.
If he says yes it's true and they are starting a relationship how will you feel? Like crap I know. I worry for you. :hug:
If he denies and it doesn't sound real then I guess you could accept that and pull back anyway.
You know him better than anyone so you may be able to see if he's telling the truth.
If he says yes it's true and they are starting a relationship how will you feel? Like crap I know. I worry for you. :hug:
EveHarrington
VIP Member
Are you relying on the 9 year isolate/breakup.....get back together pattern? Is it possible that this time it’s a real breakup and not isolation?
- Moderator
- #43
Sweetpea76
VIP Member
I’d flat out ask him personally. You don’t have to be confrontational about it, but it sounds like you need some clarification since this has been such a pattern in your relationship.
Just be prepared in case it is an answer you don’t want to hear.
Just be prepared in case it is an answer you don’t want to hear.
- Post starter
- #44
NaeNae75
Platinum Member
The VERY first thing I want to say is thank you to all of you! You are all definitely "my people"! Honestly, I used this as another learning lesson. I'm so blessed that you guys really made me feel so supported even before I "jumped into" something I may regret later. I feel so selfish, sometimes, for that! I'm not sure if this sounds crazy, but I "love" you guys! You all really treat me, and a lot of the other people on here, better than family. So truly from my heart and soul, thank you!
So, when I took his son home, I went to the door and asked if we could talk. He kept looking in and out of his house and said, "go start your car, we can go talk in there". (I could see in the door that the house is in total disarray again). So, when we got in the car I told him that I would like to get a better picture of what is going on, and that I really don't want to be lied to. I told him that I accept that we're broken up, and that I know he doesn't "owe" me any answers, but since we're currently maintaining a relationship of at least friends, I would like him to be willing to answer me and honestly. He promised me he would.
I told him that I feel like he's lying to me about the babysitter, and I would appreciate some clarification about what is going on and if they're "talking" I would like to know. I stated again, that I know that it's his right to do that, and I accept that, but in the same respect, I think it would be respectful of our history and friendship to be forthcoming with me. I told him that I know he's been talking to her since at least shortly after we broke up, and I would like to know if they were talking before that. He asked me what LK had said. I asked him, does that really matter if you're willing to just tell me the truth? He said that she is indeed the babysitter, that his roommate has known her for some time and they're friends. He's not interested in her other than as his son's babysitter and as a "friend" because of his roommate being friends with her. I think he does D&D type gaming stuff with her...or something like that.
I told him I'm not sure if I believe him because LK had mentioned they facetime sometimes and talk on the phone. He replied he's skyped with her twice, once to interview her, and one other time with his roommate. He then said he's only really talked to her on the phone to discuss times she might need to babysit. I told him he's within his right to talk to whomever he wants...but I would like to know so I don't get "sideswiped" when his son brings something up when I happen to have him. I would also like to point out that LK was pretty adamant that they don't date. But I'm still not convinced one way or the other.
I mentioned again that I know he doesn't owe me an explanation, but I don't think asking him about it is "crazy" either, especially since I'm not accusing or creating a "stink", but I just wanted to ask the question. He said, well, I don't know if you have the "right" to ask me questions like that right now. I said, well, like I said at the beginning, of this - I do have the right to ask any question I want. But you, of course, have just as much right not to answer. I said I accept I'm not owed an answer, but considering that I believe we both accept there was value to our long relationship, I certainly appreciated that you answered me.
He said that from his point of view, he feels responsible for managing my feelings with how much to do with me, what to tell me about, trying to protect me from him, etc. I told him that it is in no uncertain terms not his job or responsibility to manage how I feel. That he is responsible for deciding what he does and doesn't want to do, and I"M responsible for how I respond.
He also told me that when I told him last week that I love him, it made him uncomfortable because he wasn't sure what context I meant that in. For the record, he told me something very vulnerable about his treatment plan and about work he's doing with his father. I told him thanks for opening up and for our talk, he's my best friend, and I love him. It wasn't meant to be weird or overstep...it was to honor the talk and let him know he's loved....(unconditionally) since that's such a big part of what I'm working on.
So then I told him that first of all, I've had offers to date, and I've been turning them down because I'm not ready to date right now because of the work I'm doing on myself...and that INCLUDES HIM!!! I told him, I know you don't believe that I've accepted that right now we're broken up, and I'm telling you I do. I also told him everything... I told him that since I'm expecting honesty out of him, I'm going to be honest back.
He told me he's not surprised that I've had offers, because he knows I'm desirable and "a catch". He said that it's never been unusual for me to be propositioned, so to speak. I told him almost EVERYONE is pushing me to date other people, but I'm not ready and I'm not going to be pushed. I told him I was supposed to go out on a date with an Engineer, but I realized I didn't want to fill my self-esteem void with the band-aid of another person. I told him that my process right now is going to be about ME. I informed him if he woke up tomorrow and said it was all a nightmare, let's get back together, I would tell him sorry, not right now.
I told him that I've come to realize that I don't trust most people, and I especially don't trust men. I said that he's one of less than a handful of people I actually trust, and quite frankly, the only man I can think of that I trust....even with all of the crap going on right now. I then said that means more to me than us being boyfriend/girlfriend. I told him that if we could never be together again, I would still want us to be a family....that us trusting and taking care of each other and our kids is what I mean by that...and dating doesn't define that. He said that he understands that because we've been through "everything" together.
Then I mentioned that I like doing things with the kids...that he's been their father figure, and I've been the mom. I told him that's important to all of them, and it's not going to kill him to have fun with us once in a while instead of reading too much into it.
I said another part of this is that people don't heal in a bubble. It works better being connected with people you trust. I told him that I know I'm one of the only people he really trusts too. I told him I know he realizes that I've never judged him for anything he's ever told me. I reminded him this is RARE, and therefore important. He did agree
Next I asked him if he likes talking to me. He said usually, but sometimes I don't want to talk...to you or anyone. I said, well, then you have to be more upfront about those times. If it's a day you are enjoying the talk, then don't shy away from it. If it's a day you don't want to talk, tell me. But if you don't tell me, and try to manage my feelings instead, there's nothing I can do about that.
Then I responded to the "I love you" comment this way: I told him that since he told me what he's been working on in therapy, I will update him on what I'm working on. I told him that I'm working on becoming "whole" with myself. Part of this is to learn to become and honor my feminine energy more. With this is learning and practicing unconditional love with myself, and then my loved ones that are important to me. I told him, "You're important to me, and I have to honor my feelings too and not just stifle them to make you comfortable." I told him that the context is that of unconditional love for my best friend and confidant. I told him that I'm not trying to "woo" him back with any of this right now.
I did mention that even though I can't say right now with any confidence that we will be together as a couple again in the future, he also can't tell me that we won't be. I told him neither of us are fortune tellers...and the chips will fall wherever they will....but none of that matters right now, here today! I said that I don't care today what our outcome is going to be, because despite that, you're important to me, and I trust you with my secrets. I can't make you stay my friend or anything else, but that's what I'm putting myself out here for. I also told him that the other HUGE part of my work is to live and be in the present. That I can't live in the past or future anymore. That I'm living for today, and today he's my best friend, and I love him for that.
He rubbed his forehead and said...."hmmmm, that actually makes sense". Then he looked at me and said, "I can't talk about this anymore because I still don't feel good and I'm going to go finish my dinner, okay?" I said yeah, that's fine but I want to ask you for one more thing. I want you to call LK to the door and let me tell him that we're okay and that no fights or "bad stuff" happened because he told me that stuff. I want him to know that I love him before I leave. He agreed.
So before I left, we walked to the door together, he gave me a long hug goodnight and called LK to the door. I gave him a kiss on the top of his head, told him I had fun and that I love him very much. Then I went home.
I sent him a text telling him I appreciated the talk and thanked him. He replied with "Goodnight. I hope you have peaceful sleep"
Sorry this was so long....but I wanted to get it all out so I can refer back to it later when I'm not "IN" it. Overall, I'm happy with myself for asking him, but asking him with patience and respect. I happy I could acknowledge that he didn't owe me any explanation, but that I want to ask because it hurt me. I think honoring both sides is healthy.
I think that it was a lot of anxiety involved on both sides to talk about this, but I think I dealt with it in as healthy of a way I am capable of right now. When I left, I was in a better place. I don't know if he is or isn't seeing her...but I guess I have to know that doesn't even matter.
It was a good way for me to detach a little more, and I feel like I said what I needed to say for right now under the circumstances. I feel that I'm in a better place to do my healing for me. Of course I love him and would really love to see us get back together in time, but for now, "being" is okay.
So, when I took his son home, I went to the door and asked if we could talk. He kept looking in and out of his house and said, "go start your car, we can go talk in there". (I could see in the door that the house is in total disarray again). So, when we got in the car I told him that I would like to get a better picture of what is going on, and that I really don't want to be lied to. I told him that I accept that we're broken up, and that I know he doesn't "owe" me any answers, but since we're currently maintaining a relationship of at least friends, I would like him to be willing to answer me and honestly. He promised me he would.
I told him that I feel like he's lying to me about the babysitter, and I would appreciate some clarification about what is going on and if they're "talking" I would like to know. I stated again, that I know that it's his right to do that, and I accept that, but in the same respect, I think it would be respectful of our history and friendship to be forthcoming with me. I told him that I know he's been talking to her since at least shortly after we broke up, and I would like to know if they were talking before that. He asked me what LK had said. I asked him, does that really matter if you're willing to just tell me the truth? He said that she is indeed the babysitter, that his roommate has known her for some time and they're friends. He's not interested in her other than as his son's babysitter and as a "friend" because of his roommate being friends with her. I think he does D&D type gaming stuff with her...or something like that.
I told him I'm not sure if I believe him because LK had mentioned they facetime sometimes and talk on the phone. He replied he's skyped with her twice, once to interview her, and one other time with his roommate. He then said he's only really talked to her on the phone to discuss times she might need to babysit. I told him he's within his right to talk to whomever he wants...but I would like to know so I don't get "sideswiped" when his son brings something up when I happen to have him. I would also like to point out that LK was pretty adamant that they don't date. But I'm still not convinced one way or the other.
I mentioned again that I know he doesn't owe me an explanation, but I don't think asking him about it is "crazy" either, especially since I'm not accusing or creating a "stink", but I just wanted to ask the question. He said, well, I don't know if you have the "right" to ask me questions like that right now. I said, well, like I said at the beginning, of this - I do have the right to ask any question I want. But you, of course, have just as much right not to answer. I said I accept I'm not owed an answer, but considering that I believe we both accept there was value to our long relationship, I certainly appreciated that you answered me.
He said that from his point of view, he feels responsible for managing my feelings with how much to do with me, what to tell me about, trying to protect me from him, etc. I told him that it is in no uncertain terms not his job or responsibility to manage how I feel. That he is responsible for deciding what he does and doesn't want to do, and I"M responsible for how I respond.
He also told me that when I told him last week that I love him, it made him uncomfortable because he wasn't sure what context I meant that in. For the record, he told me something very vulnerable about his treatment plan and about work he's doing with his father. I told him thanks for opening up and for our talk, he's my best friend, and I love him. It wasn't meant to be weird or overstep...it was to honor the talk and let him know he's loved....(unconditionally) since that's such a big part of what I'm working on.
So then I told him that first of all, I've had offers to date, and I've been turning them down because I'm not ready to date right now because of the work I'm doing on myself...and that INCLUDES HIM!!! I told him, I know you don't believe that I've accepted that right now we're broken up, and I'm telling you I do. I also told him everything... I told him that since I'm expecting honesty out of him, I'm going to be honest back.
He told me he's not surprised that I've had offers, because he knows I'm desirable and "a catch". He said that it's never been unusual for me to be propositioned, so to speak. I told him almost EVERYONE is pushing me to date other people, but I'm not ready and I'm not going to be pushed. I told him I was supposed to go out on a date with an Engineer, but I realized I didn't want to fill my self-esteem void with the band-aid of another person. I told him that my process right now is going to be about ME. I informed him if he woke up tomorrow and said it was all a nightmare, let's get back together, I would tell him sorry, not right now.
I told him that I've come to realize that I don't trust most people, and I especially don't trust men. I said that he's one of less than a handful of people I actually trust, and quite frankly, the only man I can think of that I trust....even with all of the crap going on right now. I then said that means more to me than us being boyfriend/girlfriend. I told him that if we could never be together again, I would still want us to be a family....that us trusting and taking care of each other and our kids is what I mean by that...and dating doesn't define that. He said that he understands that because we've been through "everything" together.
Then I mentioned that I like doing things with the kids...that he's been their father figure, and I've been the mom. I told him that's important to all of them, and it's not going to kill him to have fun with us once in a while instead of reading too much into it.
I said another part of this is that people don't heal in a bubble. It works better being connected with people you trust. I told him that I know I'm one of the only people he really trusts too. I told him I know he realizes that I've never judged him for anything he's ever told me. I reminded him this is RARE, and therefore important. He did agree
Next I asked him if he likes talking to me. He said usually, but sometimes I don't want to talk...to you or anyone. I said, well, then you have to be more upfront about those times. If it's a day you are enjoying the talk, then don't shy away from it. If it's a day you don't want to talk, tell me. But if you don't tell me, and try to manage my feelings instead, there's nothing I can do about that.
Then I responded to the "I love you" comment this way: I told him that since he told me what he's been working on in therapy, I will update him on what I'm working on. I told him that I'm working on becoming "whole" with myself. Part of this is to learn to become and honor my feminine energy more. With this is learning and practicing unconditional love with myself, and then my loved ones that are important to me. I told him, "You're important to me, and I have to honor my feelings too and not just stifle them to make you comfortable." I told him that the context is that of unconditional love for my best friend and confidant. I told him that I'm not trying to "woo" him back with any of this right now.
I did mention that even though I can't say right now with any confidence that we will be together as a couple again in the future, he also can't tell me that we won't be. I told him neither of us are fortune tellers...and the chips will fall wherever they will....but none of that matters right now, here today! I said that I don't care today what our outcome is going to be, because despite that, you're important to me, and I trust you with my secrets. I can't make you stay my friend or anything else, but that's what I'm putting myself out here for. I also told him that the other HUGE part of my work is to live and be in the present. That I can't live in the past or future anymore. That I'm living for today, and today he's my best friend, and I love him for that.
He rubbed his forehead and said...."hmmmm, that actually makes sense". Then he looked at me and said, "I can't talk about this anymore because I still don't feel good and I'm going to go finish my dinner, okay?" I said yeah, that's fine but I want to ask you for one more thing. I want you to call LK to the door and let me tell him that we're okay and that no fights or "bad stuff" happened because he told me that stuff. I want him to know that I love him before I leave. He agreed.
So before I left, we walked to the door together, he gave me a long hug goodnight and called LK to the door. I gave him a kiss on the top of his head, told him I had fun and that I love him very much. Then I went home.
I sent him a text telling him I appreciated the talk and thanked him. He replied with "Goodnight. I hope you have peaceful sleep"
Sorry this was so long....but I wanted to get it all out so I can refer back to it later when I'm not "IN" it. Overall, I'm happy with myself for asking him, but asking him with patience and respect. I happy I could acknowledge that he didn't owe me any explanation, but that I want to ask because it hurt me. I think honoring both sides is healthy.
I think that it was a lot of anxiety involved on both sides to talk about this, but I think I dealt with it in as healthy of a way I am capable of right now. When I left, I was in a better place. I don't know if he is or isn't seeing her...but I guess I have to know that doesn't even matter.
It was a good way for me to detach a little more, and I feel like I said what I needed to say for right now under the circumstances. I feel that I'm in a better place to do my healing for me. Of course I love him and would really love to see us get back together in time, but for now, "being" is okay.
Last edited:
- Post starter
- #45
NaeNae75
Platinum Member
Oh yeah... and he said that he had been feeling like he was pulled into things he didn't want to do, so now he has problems figuring out what to say yes to and what to say no to. He said he's confused and is trying to figure it all out.
blackemerald1
VIP Member
Oh well done @NaeNae75 - I'm so glad you asked him and you had that talk. :hug:
- Post starter
- #47
NaeNae75
Platinum Member
Thank you! I think it was a good thing. It opened another opportunity for me to cut the cords a little so to speak. I hope and believe it also will let him see I'm not only willing, but prefer to live for today.
I have no idea what will happen as we're both working on our own healing, but I have a new security about it right now. I don't know if it will last, but I refuse to worry about that right now.
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