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Practicing Mindfulness Could Cause Problems For Ptsd Sufferers

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I used to do this, sort of still do. At some point the Canadian broadcast standards council, decide...


I to use YouTube or stream.. I no l no longer have a tv license . I choose the things I watch or listen to.
I do not fear death I fear life and that is what keeps me a prisoner within myself and in my home..
This year I hope will not be the same as the many years before it. I hope I can find the strength to make changes to improve my life.. The last 10 or so years have been a tourture mentally and physically for me trapped in an endless cycle of nothingness.
I am hoping to find strength on this site to make some changes big or small for better or worse.
I often think nothing can be worse then this but the thought it could be keeps me in limbo!!
Stay strong my new friend.. We are some of the strongest people in the world..
G
 
Alexander technique is a type of mindful movement good for people who really shouldn't engage with their minds. So is Tai Chi etc.

Climbing (thanks @Mit ), martial arts including boxing, dance, singing, playing an instrument, downhill mountain biking, skiing slalom etc, all require us to be in the moment and to concentrate and match our responses to what is happening around us.

They're examples of mindful practices that don't give give an opportunity for our inner critics to beat us up, or for us to fall into rumination.

playing computer games probably falls into that category too.
 
"This is my take on mindfulness. Maybe I'm off, but I see mindfulness activities to be in conflict with the...

Please re-read what I have said. I was quite detailed when I explained how closing your eyes, a technique common in present day mindfulness, actually decreases awareness in the moment as it is eliminating a prominent (and in my case primary) sense. I did not merely say that mindfulness is not mindfulness. I explained how certain techniques are contrary to achieving the ultimate goal of being fully present in the moment for some people.
 
I haven't read every response, but it's a good question, so I'll just add a bit of my experience. I DO work on mindfulness and think it's important to know that it's a huge area, not just one type of meditation. Also important to know that with trauma we do have to be a little mindful of our mindfulness choices :confused::). But it's not all-or-nothing. The very standard form of meditation, sitting still and focusing on my breath? Not helpful. But that doesn't mean I can't do mindfulness.

What helps me is mindful movement and letting myself simply slow down (vs STOP if that's too threatening). Sometimes yoga, sometimes the more gentle martial arts like t'ai chi. Some people do artwork (stemming back to even Tibetan Buddhist mandalas), and the adult coloring book craze is pretty great. Walking can be done mindfully, and it's absolutely not threatening for me. Also, when I do attempt to just sit still-ish or even lay down and rest (pain), it helps me to focus on sound. This is not an uncommon meditation technique, but it's not as widely common as focusing on breath.

The total still, quiet, and inner focus can add to either panic or dissociation for me. If I do this kind of meditation, it works better in a small, supportive group (not on my own)...but then not even so much worth it to me because I can't get to a group regularly. And when I do I'm not focusing on my breath, which is fine and Buddhist-teacher-approved for me. But on my own I can focus on peaceful music or sounds, even for just a few minutes. I can also do some mantra meditations. Somatic Experiencing also helps me notice what is going on with my body without detaching from myself...so that has helped me tolerate slowing down and some forms of mindfulness a little better....I'm able to notice what is helping, what is not, and also how to respond differently on a different day. If I'm in meltdown I need some kind of mindfulness-presence, but it's fairly specific for me (took a long time to sort that out). If I'm frenzied kick-a-hole-in-a-wall energy, I need a walk, maybe yoga after that. But no sitting meditation! I'm realizing I can do mantras almost any day, so that's helpful.

I agree with your last post @Queen Boudica about NOT being grounded in our bodies. YES. But that's also exactly what I'm working on because I was destroying myself through my disconnection...but I've had to find connection gradually, slowly, and in ways that work. Avoiding all avenues to being grounded in my body would be avoiding healing for me. So it's worth the work, just helpful to know that there are many, many paths to mindfulness and feeling grounded. And we can take any path at any speed.
 
I think mindfulness, types of mediation and reflection are being confused with each other in this thread.

Mindfulness is about continuously re-tapping into the present state and the pureness of the that connection, and takes concentration, focus and dedication. It is a mindset that is in tune with the past, present and future states of being and many, if not all experience oneness or a blissful connection to life itself. It is syncing up our lower and higher states, or 'aligning one's self'. Distractions during mindfulness do include disturbing thoughts/emotions. The goal is to refocus your thoughts despite the chaos that is internal or external. You're learning to create a shield of sorts and that is why mindfulness is practiced at all levels of meditative states.

Mindfulness is a type of meditation and usually for beginners before getting into more serious and deep meditative states. However, there are many types of meditation and that includes being at peace with one's thoughts/emotions as they come and go internally. Which is why having mindfulness down first is important. One must learn to recenter their self before plunging into the darkness or more accurately stated allowing the darkness to wash over you.

Once you are able to stay centered during these deep meditative states, that is when true reflection begins. One becomes much more objective and can see things from a higher point of view.

Now with that said, PTSD has serious affects on the brain. That includes the fact the amygdala shrinks (from over production of the the stress hormone cortisol), and the brain can get stuck in fight or flight mode because connections to the hippocampus have been lost. Painful memories have not been stored away as distant memories, but instead are ever in the present. This is why many here are reporting issues with mindfulness and meditative practices.

If one has not done gentle, and guided mindful practices first, but instead plunges right into deeper meditative practices then yes serious issues can arise. And as I said earlier:

Please use caution when trying to self medicate with any form of therapeutic release. The healing process is always just as painful as the painful experience. It is like a bone being healed or needing surgery, and that process is painful. Mental healing is no different then physical healing in that regard.
 
This is my take on mindfulness. Maybe I'm off, but I see mindfulness activities to be in conflict with the ultimate goal of becoming more aware of our environment (internal/external).

I'm a quite hypervigilant person and I'm very aware of my external environment.
You are confusing hypervigilance with Mindfulness - when you are hypervigilant your frontal lobes have shut down and you are not aware of your inner world, and in fact can't think rationally. You may notice things that other people don't notice but that is not an increased awareness of everything around you - it is an increased awareness of looking and perceiving danger in your environment.

Mindfulness activities are oftentimes introduced to us by first telling us to close our eyes, right? (At least this has been my experience with my multiple forays into mindfulness with a number of different instructors.)

This is where Mindfulness taught without the skill to address the actual person learning Mindfulness is problematic. Some Mindfulness teaching is actually not that Mindful. Mindfulness for those suffering from trauma is different from those who are not suffering from trauma.

"Close your eyes and notice all of the things you feel..." "Close your eyes and let thoughts float in and out of your mind..." But, what does that do?
Body scans are traditionally the first step into Mindfulness so you actually feel your body rather than scan the environment in an hypervigilant way.

In the 8 week MBSR course designed by Jon Kabat-Zinn they actually have exercises to manage intrusive, repetitive thoughts - so it is not the free for all that you are describing. The actual research and the scientific researched forms of Mindfulness are the important ones to do - if Mindfulness is right for you.

Well, for me it makes me less visually aware, less visually mindful of my environment. I am a visual person. I learn things better when I see them. If you cut off my visual link to the world, I'm actually taking in less information, not more.
You might start to get more awareness of your internal world - so you don't understand the levels of being that Mindfulness can unpack. The thing is that being hypervigilant and prioritising scanning for danger is very different from actual Mindfulness. That is a trauma response - not a meditation. This is flight/fright/freeze/fawn responses - very different from Mindfulness.

Cutting off my #1 stabilizing sense doesn't heighten my other senses. I don't suddenly taste, feel, hear, smell more efficiently. It doesn't allow me to become more mindful because when you cut off a big source of stabilization, warning signals go off in my body and mind.
So Mindfulness that actually gives you a visual scene to focus on would perhaps be better for you.

To me, mindfulness has a sweet spot. I don't have to over-analyze every single thing I'm experiencing in order to be mindful. I don't have to identify every single sensation at any given moment in order to live a mindful life. I believe it's good to be aware on your internal and external environments, but hyper-awareness isn't necessarily a superior type of mindfulness.
Mindfulness is not about over analysing every single thing that you are experiencing. You don't have to identify every single sensation that you are feeling. Hyper-awareness has nothing to do with Mindfulness.


I also feel that mindfulness is in opposition to CBT when it comes to thoughts.
See I experience the opposite Mindfulness lets me see that my thoughts, feelings, ideas and perceptions are distorted cognitions, using that awareness I have gone from Extreme Depression on the Burns' Scale to Mild Depression.

Mindfulness wants us to let thoughts pass on through, judgment free. I don't know about anyone else, but this feels like passive acceptance. (I realize that's not exactly mindfulness with non judgment.)
It is more nuanced than that - it really depends on the person teaching the Mindfulness - and the teacher is very important because that person grounds the person learning Mindfulness and helps them manage the many different things that arise. There is no passive acceptance - it is different from this. But you may go through this at times - it depends on what your life experience is and what your expectations and what your understandings of Mindfulness are at the time.

My thoughts quite often need to be counteracted and corrected because they're so skewed.
That is really clever to work that out. Many people don't and they get stuck. But within Mindfulness the teacher will assist the student within this. That is why having a good, experienced, knowledgeable teacher is so important.

I think that mindfulness is a great tool for many, but not so great for others.
It can be dangerous for certain types of people with certain histories.

I think that mindfulness activities are a bit narrow in scope and that's why they don't work for everyone.
There is actually a great deal of depth within Mindfulness practices but it does depend on a person's history of trauma, and if they had good enough parenting.

That is, awareness is good, but the paths to mindfulness that are mostly offered up aren't the right paths for certain people for a variety of reasons. That is, there's more than one way to skin a cat but most are only being showed one way to get the job done, so to speak.
Awareness is not necessarily good - it depends on the types of awareness. Mindfulness needs to be taught in a way that doesn't destabilise and retraumatise a person. So a deep knowledge of Mindfulness is required and a deep knowledge of trauma is also required - and not a general understanding of trauma a specific understanding of trauma of the person sitting there in front of you. It is highly nuanced and highly skilled set of practices. Mindful walking is a thing and feeling the feet pressing down can be very grounding for some people. Mindfulness is not a simple, able to be reduced down thing - it is multifaceted.
 
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Reading the research on Mindfulness - could be a helpful thing for people to do - rather than relying on fuzzy interpretations of lay people, who really don't know what they are talking about. You can pick up quite easily when someone is talking theory and talking actual lived practice within Mindfulness. If a person hasn't been practicing Mindfulness for many years then they are not a safe teacher.

...about PTSD and mindfulness. He said 'the last place I ever feel grounded is in my body' That I find profound because yes it is like the terror is inside me and sometimes I just want to rip my skin off and pull it out.

Currently I am reading Mindfulness Orientated Interventions for Trauma Integrating Contemplative Practices edited by Victoria M. Folette, John Briere, Deborah Rozelle, James W. Hopper and David l. Rome - many of the concerns being brought up in this thread are addressed here, and in other peer reviewed research. You wouldn't let someone tell you how to design/build a skyscaper that doesn't have an engineering/architecture degree I suggest the same type of discernment and judgement with Mindfulness.
 
I don't know all of this, mindfulness, therapy, trying to navigate this nightmare just think it is hopeless for me. Just made me realise I am so far from anything stable. I do feel like it sets you up for feeling like a failure. What should be, how it should be, how to do it right. See mindfulness is being presented as this easy to do thing to bring you peace. It isn't. Not to me. It costs lots of money to do any of this to find people who know what they are doing, and then you struggle to even get anywhere.
 
The whole point here is to point of the article is mindfulness is being portrayed as this simple idea that can be done so easily and there are online apps and everyone should get benefit from it. The answer to everyone's stresses. In fact it isn't that easy for those with trauma, nothing is. And you need proper guidance and someone who understands trauma, otherwise there can be serious effects that might become overwhelming and people have ended up hospitalised. To be able to afford this kind of help for a lot of people isn't an option, tempting to do it yourself and then no idea why you are failing and the dangers. It isn't an argument about whether some do get huge benefits here and what is the right and wrong way it is a warning that there could be problems.
 
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