Promiscuity

[saffy]

Hi Jimni

I think I also make mistakes I regret afterwards and loose something good without realising it at the time.

Do you want to talk about how you 'screwed' up?

I know I have done some really irrational things that have lost me a lot. I try not to let what I did worry me now if looking at what I did then. I cannot change that now or get the person back, it is too late for that. My loss? who knows. My fate? who knows.

I do try to look at what I did and learn to try not to do it again. I can only say that my mistakes were not on purpose it was just lack of education and ability on my part in areas of relationships.

Each time I think I was stupid, naive or irrational. But what led me to that in the first place? My insecurities? my fear of rejection? and abandonment? and my lack of confidence based on my very low self esteem? Probably all of them.

So in a way I cannot entirely blame myself for screwing up. It was something I had no control over at the time because I had no idea of what to do or think rationally and maturely.

I now a lot of men who talk about being with a door mat but they also, at the same time, moan and groan about someone who is more bossy and self absorbed and bust their balls every time they stepped out of line. I used to think why are you with such women then, the ones that are such hard work and make you feel like you can do nothing right? And what is it about a door mat that makes you leave?

Maybe most men like being dominated and told what to do? Most of the time they moaned but still went home to them. Hard to figure that one out. Working in bars you hear a lot of winging and whining. I thought how weak and hypocritical for you to put up with it then.

I do see things in black and white. For me I would hate someone coming down the local and moaning and groaning about me as if I was a bossy dominatrix. It did not spell respect to me. And yet when the girlfriends they were moaning about was with them, they were gentlemen and protective over them. Just did not figure. It is not in my nature to be nasty, degrading or bossy. So there was something else missing.

When I spoke about 'doormats' I realised that they perceived this as someone needy and clingy. In a way they were right. It portrayed someone that would do anything to stay together no matter how degrading or submissive. This showed low confidence and self esteem. Not an attractive quality, I am told.

I was so scared of saying, I can do better than you, you are lucky to have me and if you don't like it you can leave, cos I did not actually think I was good enough for them and feared them leaving as it fed my thoughts and low self esteem. Or I would push them away to 'test' them. When they did and never came back it was a self fulfilling prophecy. It was all to do with my own fears. I cannot blame myself for that really.

Working on my own issues, especially my self confidence and esteem I can raise my goals a bit and go for men who do not take the piss. I also have to learn to be more assertive and honest with my own feelings and emotions. Instead of ignoring them or feeling guilty for expressing them. Hard work though. It is very scary to take that plunge and go beyond my comfort zone.

I also get very confused whether my thoughts and emotions are coming from me or my paranoia and mistrust. Am I being irrational or instinctive?

best wishes
Saffy :)

 

[saffy]

repeated last post? for some reason posted twice. Sorry

 

[Philippa]

I think sometimes, when we think we are being 'easy going' and 'laid back' we are actually being too passive. That was something I had to question in myself a long time ago. Learning assertiveness skills is a good step forward. I'm not sure where you are from saffy, but I'm from Australia, and being 'laid back' and 'easy going' are pretty much an epidemic here, that everyone has twisted into being a good and desirable quality. It definitely got me nowhere except in doormat status too.

I think it's great that you are working on it though. Keep it up.

As for me, I gave up sex a long time ago...not because I hate it...though I did go through a stage, after I was sexually assaulted, where I really didn't like sex much...but mainly because I came to the conclusion that sex with people I don't know or love isn't as good and I usually feel empty for having sex in this way.

So I turned asexual as well, and for a while it was great...really great. Masturbation is the safest sex a person can have, and you get to learn what you really enjoy, which is a great thing for the next time you find yourself in a relationship. I think it's healthy to do for a while...but I was like this for a few years, and I didn't feel healthy for it. I had to find ways to re-ignite my passion for sex, because I literally wasn't attracted to anyone. I was able to find one person online who brought those feelings back for me, and now I am working in an industry that allows me to explore my sensual side again, and get paid.

I am a bit concerned though, that I may be falling into this trap of wanting to feel wanted, and if I don't, then feeling insecure, and I don't like that. But all these things are clear indicators of where we are at in our realities, and that is the first step towards working on what needs work...clarifying the issue.

 

[jmni]

Basically I met someone who didn't push me. He was polite and nice and seemed like a nice normal guy. But I acted how I am used to acting, after being groomed by my ex-"boyfriend". He'll never want me and I ruined my chance. I'm not heart broken over it but it was a soft slap in the face. I feel like I am damaged goods. I want something new and different and that would be not being pushed, being treated nicely, not being pressured.
A lot of people are confused about what dominance and submission is. I am fed up with it. If someone is confused about this I can only conclude they are more messed up than I am.

I think that once I feel more healthy and in shape and I have more peace of mind. Having my life in order and on track takes precedence over dating and sex for me.

So I turned asexual as well, and for a while it was great...really great. Masturbation is the safest sex a person can have, and you get to learn what you really enjoy, which is a great thing for the next time you find yourself in a relationship. I think it's healthy to do for a while...but I was like this for a few years, and I didn't feel healthy for it. I had to find ways to re-ignite my passion for sex, because I literally wasn't attracted to anyone. I was able to find one person online who brought those feelings back for me, and now I am working in an industry that allows me to explore my sensual side again, and get paid.

I am rarely attracted to people so asexuality seemed natural. I like it because there is no headache. Some of my attempts to become more sexual have failed and that's partly why I am where I am now. Maybe I'll describe that one day but I don't feel like reliving it now. I'm really glad for you though. What industry is this, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Philippa]

I work in the massage industry.

 

[saffy]

I feel like I am damaged goods.

That is sad to hear. It was only through someone elses' lack of care and handling that you got damaged. But I would like to think that you are not broken and that someone else will treat you with care, including yourself. :)

He'll never want me

I would assume that your thoughts were insecure in this area. I sometimes feel that actions say more than words. However, at a guess your x was manipulating and passive aggressive and the words and actions he gave were only for his own selfish means and not for making you happy and feel needed and wanted? You were wanted and needed I assume but for the wrong reasons ?

When I get thoughts like yours it is because I am out of my comfort zone of type based on my low self esteem and confidence in knowing what I want and should have.

Your x was an arse but very clever in what he does. People like this make you doubt your own doubt your own doubts about things and definitely makes you feel you are not good enough for anyone else. It sounds like he was the insecure one really. Having to manipulate and 'groom' someone is just about the lowest you can stoop too to get a relationship.

I think that with me I would rather not have sex than take the chance that the person has manipulated/groomed me into it. This has given me personal choices and lessons to learn for the future. I can only trust someone if I can ask them the right questions without fear of attack or rejection. I have to be able to ask these questions and look carefully on how they act and how they answer. It will give me a lot of feedback about the person in general.

I also think it should not be rushed. and you are doing the right thing in waiting until you are ready. I would like to base anything sexual on knowing that the person is there to make me happy and take care of my needs. If they are looking for their own satisfaction then they can go masturbate ;)

I think sometimes, when we think we are being 'easy going' and 'laid back' we are actually being too passive.

I think you have hit the nail on the head for me there. I am laid back and do not get bothered about most things in general. But in some ways, it was easier to be 'easy going' than to turn everything into an arguement.

Thinking about it further, it was the fact that the person turned everything into an argument that should have rung bells. It did seem like they were fine as long as they were getting their own way all the time.

I think this is an important thing to make clear to people. Don't take the piss out of my generosity.

It is this point that you can really see the wheat from the chaff I suppose. Say NO a few times and watch the response ;)

This will also be a test on my own self esteem and confidence. I know I deserve better than this. I know that I have the right to expect to be treated properly and with respect. I suppose that is the point of knowing how to assert my needs and knowing that my self esteem should be high enough for me to have the best. :)

Although I would never go the other way and withhold things out of spite or malice or manipulation. I think that is for some of the Xs we have had in the past ;)

I am in the UK and everyone is so self absorbed over here. Getting what they can while they can get it. There are few genuine people. At least I have only found a few in all my life. I am not happy living here at all (UK) . We have made it so multicultural it is a dog eat dog mentality here now.

I do massage therapy too, but at the time only got men interested in extras. There are certain muscles I do not massage lol ;)

Thank you for your support on assertiveness and self esteem Phillipa, I a certainly working on it.

But the more I realise about the dynamics of a meaningful relationship the more I know I also have to learn the codes. Ie, do not confuse easy going with passive and look for signs of manipulation before anything else. :)

My mother was extremely manipulative and I have only just recognised this now. Before I thought it was me or at least that is what they wanted me to believe. Saying NO led to fights, abandonment and rejection.


best wishes
Saffy :)

 

[jmni]

My mother is manipulative too. We've stopped talking. She actually belittled me for being used and it made me feel like rubbish.

It sounds like he was the insecure one really. Having to manipulate and 'groom' someone is just about the lowest you can stoop too to get a relationship.

I agree. You said it more nicely than I probably would have.

I am not upset about losing this guy. But I am annoyed that I screwed it up. I regret some of the things I did but I am not beating myself up over it. It's a lesson. And we all have to learn.

I am in the UK and everyone is so self absorbed over here. Getting what they can while they can get it. There are few genuine people. At least I have only found a few in all my life. I am not happy living here at all (UK) .

I think people are the same way in America. People are opportunistic.

One thing that puzzles me is what real love would feel like. I thought I fell in love once and now I am not sure. It seems more like an infatuation almost now. Nothing came of it and it was mostly just a struggle with my own emotions. In a way I am not sure of what I am waiting for.

 

[Anna]

I have also noticed I have been getting very bad lately. Some people find it funny this subject but I do not. Especially when the thought of sex intrudes on every day life, when you are thinking about it every second of the day. I thought it was hormonal, but it wasn't. I noticed alot of my bad symptoms having been getting worse lately, and this is one of them. So far I have controlled myself very well. I need to find a way to cope.

 

[Finding Shawna]

When I go out men get the wrong idea. I don't think I am particularly sexy at all but I am quite tactile and freindly and this gets misdiagnosed as me wanting to pull for sex. I have even been called a man eater??? no idea why, men scare the shit out of me.

That's me, I am very nice, laid back and a lot of men seem to take this as an invitation. Me not wanting to be called a"tease" or them getting mad, I would just give in. Sometimes I said "NO" and they would keep pressuring and I would eventually give in to them also, even though I didn't wnat to and told them so.

 

[Philippa]

I am in the UK and everyone is so self absorbed over here. Getting what they can while they can get it. There are few genuine people. At least I have only found a few in all my life. I am not happy living here at all (UK) . We have made it so multicultural it is a dog eat dog mentality here now.

Reminds me of when I lived in Sydney, Australia. It was very much the same back when I was in my early 20's. I'm sure it hasn't changed that much. I will never live there again.

I do massage therapy too, but at the time only got men interested in extras. There are certain muscles I do not massage lol ;)

:D Well, each to their own. Men are so easily aroused though...and massage is a very sensual thing. It can be a pain if you don't want to do extras.

Thank you for your support on assertiveness and self esteem Phillipa, I a certainly working on it.

No problem. I think I came to the same conclusion as you...though now, some people tend to see me as someone who likes to argue and who likes conflict...which isn't correct, but I certainly won't back down from conflict if it arises. The difference is that now I see conflict as a growth opportunity, that is just another part of life.

Conflict is natural, and as long as you are respectful in the way you approach communication, there is no reason why it needs to become unpleasant...but try telling that to the rest of the population, who are also too passive and don't know how to deal with confrontation or conflict. That is another challenge in itself.

My mother was extremely manipulative and I have only just recognised this now. Before I thought it was me or at least that is what they wanted me to believe. Saying NO led to fights, abandonment and rejection.

My mother is the same, and she taught me to be too passive, because whenever I do stand up to her, she treats me like I don't exist (like now for instance) or abandons and rejects me. I'm getting used to it though. Now I see her rejection as a good thing. She obviously isn't someone that is good for me to be around, so she has done me a favor.

 

[saffy]

In a way I am not sure of what I am waiting for.

I think it is hard to know what love is if you have never really been part of it. As with me the people I should have learnt what love meant never showed any. So it is hard to understand what it is. I guess this was much the same for you.

Love was disguised as manipulation and egotistical bullying.

Love was never unconditional. Love was never shown when you needed it. Love was never accepted from you.

SO what does love mean, what does it involve and how should it make you feel? mmmmm I am going to google this for some insight :)

Is it love or lust? is it love or infatuation? is it love or need?

Great thread Jimni :)

best wishes and Ill be back with some answers, hopefully.

Best wishes
Saffy :)

 

[saffy]

Sometimes I said "NO" and they would keep pressuring and I would eventually give in to them also, even though I didn't wnat to and told them so.

I know what this means Shawna to you. I used to do the same.

I had no idea at the time I was breaking all my own boundaries to stop confrontation or rejection. Once they new I could be pushed they just kept expecting.

These are just the type of chancers that can tell when they are breaking you down and will still carry on even though you protest you do not want it. They have a knack of knowing that we are not strong or confident enough to stick by our boundaries. These people are users and manipulators and it is easy to get sucked in by them and their pushy, false complimentary ways. They are very well versed in their actions.

These are the exact type that people with low confidence attract. They themselves would never get the chance with someone with confidence so pray on the vulnerable like sharks. We cannot blame ourselves for that at all.

But we can blame ourselves for doing the same thing once we realise that this is what is happening and why.

This is why I am building up my assertive ability and setting boundaries and sticking to them, no matter what the reaction. A bad reaction is them getting defensive because they are not getting what they want, like a petulant school boy. That has to be a reflection of them and their behaviour not of ours.

We girls need to get stronger. Big support group hugs to us all. :)

best wishes
Saffy :)