Seeing family. Scared. Weirded out. Disgusted....

[Dana1010]

Yes, but only if you are ready to hear it...

This is a popular bit of rhetoric many of you seem to have picked up somewhere. You've taken it to heart, but: are you sure it's not a line from people copping out of doing something they don't feel like doing? It has a whiff of it, if you ask me.

 

[TTC18]

This is a popular bit of rhetoric many of you seem to have picked up somewhere. You've taken it to heart, but: are you sure it's not a line from people copping out of doing something they don't feel like doing? It has a whiff of it, if you ask me.

I picked it up from my own life. I’ve been in abusive relationships and had friends in abusive relationships. Watched people suffer through their own stuff when all I could do was say ‘I’m here if you need me’
*shrug* feel free to ignore - just like everyone else, you can only really internalize what you’re ready to hear. I think this is something you have to do to see what happens. But in my experience, trying to save ppl when they’re not ready tends to make them defensive and protective of their lifestyle or whatever it is that they need saving from. Hopefully this will work out differently for you. :)

 

[mumstheword]

I'm not sure it's possible to reach people you feel disgusted by. In my experience it's just a breeding ground for even more erosion of self esteem and relationship degradation, and self esteem and mutual regard is needed when you want to connect and repair, guide and support.

My brother is an opiate addict, I've tried, I really have, but he's so not ready to change or admit to his problem and I have many other family members with massive relational and drug problems and mental ill health, so I do have experience in this area.


Also, I'm not sure how you have the moral high ground when you are planning on getting drunk just to deal with being around these people?

Why not practise non judgement and sit with your feelings, as part of something YOU need to face and develop compassion for, instead of feeling morally superior and like you have to rescue them?

Most likely if you don't address your own issues and acceptance of your roots, you will come across as condescending and that won't help them, it is more likely to make the divide even bigger.

I am disappointed in my brother's choices but choose to respect him to learn from his own life experiences, while being open about my own struggles and how I am dealing with them.

Also are you aware of the abuser-victim-rescuer triangle theory? I can't remember the name or source, but basically, the rescuer role is still part of the dysfunctional family cycle. I know this from falling into that very trap for many years.

Focus on being a compassionate, successful example of how to break free, rather than spoon feeding them "advice" while feeling judgemental towards them.

Maybe they are coming up with amazing ways to cope and have resilience and wisdom you could learn from too?

I'm just saying, your attitude doesn't sound healthy or helpful, grounded or wise. Sorry if my straight talking comes across as mean, I can be brutally honest, but it comes from compassion and experience.

I hope you can catch a breath, listen to your sibs and have a meaningful and heartfelt connection or else leave it until you feel more relaxed and accepting.

 

[EveHarrington]

What is "this" that I have to deal with?

You have to deal with the fact that nobody tried to save you.

It seems like you feel the need to save others because nobody saved you.

Wanting a white knight rescuer is common in childhood abuse survivors. It’s something we need to work through.

 

[Muttly]

Yes, I was having troubles thinking of how to explain what I meant but @EveHarrington summarized nicely. You talk about guilt in this post and I believe in other posts. You are doing something you don't really seem to want to do. There's a lot of emotion and pain attached to this. And it seems to me, the underlying reason is because you feel that others failed to save you. So that pain and experience is what you are basing your view of your family. Your experiences are certainly valid but they are not universal. Many people have others come in to rescue them over and over again, even if it means getting their hands dirty. Many people rescue themselves.

 

[Justmehere]

You'll generally continue to get pushback when you describe your disgust about other trauma survivors in need. This forum is filled of trauma survivors in need. They are not disgusting and it will be an uphill battle to find others that will agree with your disgust. Take what's helpful and disregard the rest.

I'm tired of this cop out. I've been in bad places before, blinded by manipulators, ignorance, wrong thinking, whatever. I could have been helped. People didn't want to get their hands dirty.

In one of many bad chapters in my life that I can think of, I got out, partly because of a reality check and partly because of the guidance of one person who talked sense to me without abusing me. I did not know I needed help, nor did I ask for it, but when someone speaks to you sensibly, it's possible to change your outlook. It's not climbing Mount Everest. It's possible. Most people just don't want to get their hands dirty, like I said.

To you, being with these family members means getting dirty and attempting to rescue them. I don't think any of us are going to change your mind.

Ever been on a farm? In the rain? Things get dirty. Messy. Mucky. (I happen to love muddy farms, but they are a very dirty place.)

I deal with it by:
1.) Being prepared. Wearing the proper clothes as a boundary between me and the muck. (“Muck” bring an actual farmers term for when mud and manure gets all mixed up together.)
What are your boundaries for the encounter with your family members? What will you do externally and internally to keep yourself safe? Lots of alcohol seems like a good way to break down boundaries. What are ways to instead establish and keep boundaries? Perhaps setting a time limit, a location, and carrying a reminder with you that you are you, and they are them. Whatever is going on for them, it doesn't define you or vice versa. Having a strong sense of self is a good boundary when needing to deal with difficult situations.

2.) Having tools on hand. I wear big tall boots and a good weatherproof jacket when out on a muddy farm. I muck out pens with the proper equipment. Do you have your tools ready with you for the trip? Not just the tools of how you will offer help to them, but tools you will use to take good care of you.

3.) Cleaning up. After a trip to a muddy farm, I clean up afterward. Perhaps bookending the trip with them with events you find enjoyable would help.

4.) Reframing the experience or refocusing on beauty. When on a farm, I could focus on OMG THAT WAS HORSESH**T that I just shoveled...or I could focus on the beauty around me. The breath of said horse as they greet me. Maybe in your time with your family, and afterward, notice nature, notice the peace of your own breath, refocus on the good courage you have to connect with them, etc. That can help lower feelings of disgust.

5.) Realistic expectations. While out on the farm, I don't expect mud to be gold, no matter how much of it I shovel.

Good luck with your trip!

 

[MyWillow]

5.) Realistic expectations. While out on the farm, I don't expect mud to be gold, no matter how much of it I shovel.

Bloody priceless. Quoted for truth ;)

 

[ms spock]

If you feel like you need lots of alcohol to even manage the situation I think you are well on your way to burning your bridges, so if you want to have a horrendous night which justifies you never having to help and/or see them again then I think keep on with the plan. You are setting yourself and them up for a whole world of pain.

The place that you are coming from is not going to end well. They haven't asked for your help and family is usually the worst for helping when trauma is involved. Give it a big miss, plead off illness or something and see them next year.

Christmas is the worst time to reconnect with family. All the gremlins come out.

I got out, partly because of a reality check and partly because of the guidance of one person who talked sense to me without abusing me. I did not know I needed help, nor did I ask for it, but when someone speaks to you sensibly, it's possible to change your outlook.

You are definitely not in a place to talk sense to anyone without abusing them. Once you have imbibed enough alcohol you will not be of much kindness at all I would imagine give what is underpining your motivations. Was this person who talked sense to you without abusing you a person in your family? Did they find you embarrassing? Did they not want to be seen with you in public? Did they express unlying feelings of revulsion for you and your life? Did they judge you as less than them? Had they not see you for 14 years and suddenly turned up to tell you how to live your life? Did they have underlying horrible feelings of shame and disgust associated with you and your childhood? Did you get the feeling that no only did they not want to be seen with your in public but in no way did they want to be related to you. Did you feel that they judge you for not having a good job, good addresses, degrees, etc? Did you get the overall sense that they didn't want to face you or themselves? If they were expressing all the above do you think you would have experienced the conversation as not being abusive to you? Do you think with all these underlying feelings underneath their words that you might not really have paid as much attention or been opening to listening to them?

What was it about the way the person who didn't abuse you but talked to you that got you to see your light? Were they respectful to you? Did they treat you as an equal? Did they treat you as someone to be valued?

It this person was a member of your family them I would be very surprised. The very, last person to help is usually family. But even if they were family they didn't look right down at you and perceive you as something down there to be fixed.

Anyone have any thoughts on how I can make this less scary, dreadful, disgusting?

Stop doing this to them. Stop doing this to yourself. Don't go in to this really ready to go off at the slightest perceived offence so you can dump your shame about them, your childhood and yourself on your siblings that you haven't seen for 14 years.

It reads to me that you are gearing up to be abusive to siblings that you haven't seen for 14 years in some weird attempt to alleviate some guilt towards them that is only real in your head.

You don't get to turn up, get drunk, find them repulsive, act your shit out on them when you are drunk, then get offended when they defend themselves from your onslaught and then get to label them as unreasonable for not taking your guilt and shit that you are so ready to dump on them!

This is because when family tries to help up we usually activate each other's shame. So we bring up living whole systems of pain in each other.

I tried to reconnect with my sister and two brothers. For various reasons it was a total disaster.

I did not think them less than me though, so you are coming from a distinct disadvantage than I was.

You are about to run your guilt over them, and they deserve better than you dumping your guilt on to them. You are choosing to get your hands dirty in the worst way- to put the dirt you feel about them on them. It is a cop out on your part, rather than a cop out not to engage and help people. You are not remotely helping people if you are interacting with them from a basis that they are shameful, bad, not good enough, embarrassing, caused horrible feelings of shame and disgust from you. You are not even going to remotely give them anything like helpful guidance. You will sabotage any good feelings that they have built up about themselves. Why would you want to treat people who have suffered as much as you so badly?

Are you trying to sabotage your own recovery by trying to rescue other people out of shame? Are you trying to sabotage what they have gained in these last 14 years? What really is going on here for you? What you are proposing to do is highly destructive.

It's not climbing Mount Everest. It's possible. Most people just don't want to get their hands dirty, like I said.

Whatever guilt thing you that has overtaken you, that your life is better than theirs in some way, I think you really need to get therapy on it. If you get your hands dirty so to speak you are most likely to have a horrendous situation develop that will mean you won't see any of them again, unless that is what you want, to burn your bridges with what you could possibly have then you need to alter course, and unpack what you are talking about here. Because your attitude to your siblings is going to be offensive to them and really, really hurtful if you start telling them what they are doing wrong with their lives, and you might get a serve back from them of what they think you are doing wrong with your life in reaction. It could end very painfully.

I couldn't help either of my brothers, and one I was just going for basic text contact with no deep contact, and the one time I tried deeper text contact that was when I blew it.

The other brother I can only see if I see my sister, and her internalised perpetrator is something she unconsciously acted on on me, she looks down on me and my life, and was not backwards in coming forwards in telling me all the things that I am doing wrong, how I need to do this, how I need to move away from that, how I have to let go of my Mother's mentality, and a whole lot of stuff that was actually her problems that she was projecting on to me. She dumped her stuff, that she hasn't dealt with on me.

I am struggling in my daily life but I don't dump my shit on other people like she does. So coming from the position of the looked down upon one, who she thought needed saving, she was incredibly destructive towards me and my recovery, and f*ck her I won't be seeing her again. We are done. She can go and look down on me and my life from afar, and act out her unresolved shit on someone else. Though on the surface of things her life looks a lot more together than mine, but I don't have the problems that she has with other people, and acting her feelings of guilt on other people. She "told" me some home truths about how I should and should not be living my life which has derailed my life these last two years. I would be so much further along in my recovery if she hadn't come into my life to tell me how I could and should be further along with things.

She finds me an embarrassment. She looks down on me. She feels she is superior. She thinks she knows the right way to live, and I should be living her way.

And the kicker is - she is playing the victim that tried to help - which justifies all her abusiveness of dumping her shame, shit, and unresolved stuff on me. And I am the ungrateful one, who really can't be saved etc, and is such an embarrassment.

So I would be very, very careful of the path that you are choosing to go down, because the set up that you are describing sounds exactly like that to me, a set up so they fail in your eyes so you get to tell them how they are wrong, or judge them as wanting so you never have to see them again. If that is what you want be honest about that, deal with your guilt, rather than inflame the situation so you get bad behaviours from them to justify you cutting them out of your life.

My sister would have done me a lot of favours if she had kept her perfect, superior, more functional life to herself. It was 5 years of being destabilised by her, and even though where I live is in need of repairs, and no I don't have a full time job. I was improving and doing okay.

Now I have to deal with the layer of shit that she has been dumping on me these last five years, and it has been very destructive to me her being superior and feeling more than, to my less than.

You don't know one of your siblings might be in trauma therapy getting ready to tell you in a year or two what has changed for them or how they are getting out or after 14 years how they have been living out of the family for 5 or 10 years, but as you plan to be totally drunk you are going to miss all those nuances. You are going to miss everything that they now bring to the table because of your preconceived ideas. And you may be the horribly family member that one of those siblings spends 6 months process in therapy next year, just like I did with my sister two years ago, all because she thought that she knew better than me.

I could be years ahead of where I am if I had not had her superiority in my life undermining all my modest but substantial achievements.

 

[Neverthesame]

@Neverthesame, you're welcome to share your opinion.

I wasn't sure what or if I should respond with here. If you really want it, here it is.

My opinion is; what @Living in the 70s just said exactly.
Especially the part about the booze. No interaction between people that requires diplomacy and tact, has ever been helped by alcohol.
Staggering drunk will make dancing around deep rooted emotional pain next to impossible. If you don't listen to anything else anyone suggests, please leave the bottle at home.

 

[Dana1010]

It reads to me that you are gearing up to be abusive to siblings that you haven't seen for 14 years in some weird attempt to alleviate some guilt towards them that is only real in your head.

Um, no. I don't plan to be abusive or critical. I plan to be kind, and to offer encouragement and moral support. I want to give them some resources, suggest some things that they might find helpful.

Also, I'm a happy drunk.

 

[Muttly]

I think @Living in the 70s is making some assumptions. They also have said some stuff that's really worth thinking about. The one that stands out to me, is that you are trying to help family members and no matter how good your intentions, that can go badly. There is a reason therapists don't treat family members. Even if you were able to leave out all your own family issues while offering help, your sibs will likely receive that help with all the entangled family baggage they have.

Also, no matter how much you try not to show your inner feelings, people have good radars. If you feel disgusted by them they are likely to pickup on that and be defensive. I volunteer at a food bank. I volunteer with homeless people. One of the most valuable things we volunteers give them is seeing them as equals *without* feelings of disgust, blame, etc.

 

[Dana1010]

I'd also like to point out that Im not feeling only shame, fear and disgust. I'm also feeling empathy and compassion. I didn't mention those in the OP, obviously, because they're not what I need help with.